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Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: BigUncleLeroy] #2471422
04/27/18 05:33 PM
04/27/18 05:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,148
J
jallencrockett Offline
8 point
jallencrockett  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,148
I guess I would say that it is the QDMA mindset of killing all does that has greatly diminished the quality of outdoor experience in the state and in that aspect how can QDMA ever be trusted or listened too EVER AGAIN for what is best for a deer herd in Alabama. That is a legitimate question that needs to be asked???

Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: Recurve] #2471441
04/27/18 06:05 PM
04/27/18 06:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,267
Conecuh, AL
B
Backporch Offline
8 point
Backporch  Offline
8 point
B
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,267
Conecuh, AL
Originally Posted by Recurve
Originally Posted by Backporch


It's a neighborly day in this beautywood,
A neighborly day for a beauty,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?

I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,



Smoke it up!


I was being relevant to the discussion. Corn or no corn, either way hunters will never agree. Rules are fine with me but when we let them take away the joy and heritage of hunting because no one can agree then it is no longer worth the effort. I won't join a club ever again. My young son killed a small spike by mistake and some members of the club could not just let it go. I had the only tractor that was worth a crap and did most of the work on the plots including getting them limed because they needed it in a bad way.. I had no problem with the time or money spent and was in total agreement with the fine for the spike. Everyone has an opinion but why can't hunting be the experience that it once was? Rules and more rules with no agreement is the problem. People just don't no how to be neighborly anymore.


Antisocial behavior is a trait of intelligence in a world of conformists....Tesla
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: Backporch] #2471443
04/27/18 06:07 PM
04/27/18 06:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 14,234
ArmPit of the south
D
DeerNutz0U812_ Offline
Booner
DeerNutz0U812_  Offline
Booner
D
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 14,234
ArmPit of the south
Hey backporch.....If it don't open.....It must not be your door.....


Did you know that Beer Nutz are over a Dollar...and Deer Nutz are under a Buck...


Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: DeerNutz0U812_] #2471464
04/27/18 06:30 PM
04/27/18 06:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,267
Conecuh, AL
B
Backporch Offline
8 point
Backporch  Offline
8 point
B
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,267
Conecuh, AL
Originally Posted by DeerNutz0U812_
Hey backporch.....If it don't open.....It must not be your door.....


Well that sure does cut both ways.


Antisocial behavior is a trait of intelligence in a world of conformists....Tesla
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: BigUncleLeroy] #2471481
04/27/18 06:56 PM
04/27/18 06:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,267
Conecuh, AL
B
Backporch Offline
8 point
Backporch  Offline
8 point
B
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,267
Conecuh, AL
It's difficult to support a bill that takes away another person's right..say the right to feed his family and yes there can be even though most are silent. It is also difficult to support a bill that takes the right of individuals that have another perspective of quality or numbers.


Antisocial behavior is a trait of intelligence in a world of conformists....Tesla
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: ElkHunter] #2471690
04/27/18 09:58 PM
04/27/18 09:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,747
Hoover, AL
M48scout Online content
12 point
M48scout  Online Content
12 point
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,747
Hoover, AL
Originally Posted by ElkHunter
I think if passed it will erode more of our hunting heritage. We will become more like TX. Put out a feeder and sit and wait. And please don't start with the food plot is the same thing. This is simply my opinion.


My opinion is somewhere in this ballpark.

1) I enjoy the deer hunting traditions we have now, and when it transitions to Texas-style I will enjoy it less. Yes, I know I don't have to sit over a feeder.
2) I also think baiting will increase the progression to an "arms race" of everyone frantically corning more than they perceive their neighbors to be. Which makes hunting that much more expensive than it currently is.
3) Bating is bound to increase conflicts within club environments as well ("I can't believe you went in sat in that area and killed a buck ... you haven't filled that feeder up all season blah blah blah").
4) I can see where supplemental feeding of any sort (regardless of whether someone is within 100 yards with a rifle and an intent to kill) could help spread disease. A 10 ft diameter feeding circle is a much higher concentration than a 1/2 acre green field.

I don't really have any ethical concerns. As many have pointed out it's essentially the same as sitting on a field, which I already do some.

Like Elkhunter said, all this is just an opinion. Just like those who have emphatically argued for legalized baiting while that bill was up for vote.

Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: jallencrockett] #2472390
04/29/18 06:46 AM
04/29/18 06:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
W
WildlifeBiologist Offline
10 point
WildlifeBiologist  Offline
10 point
W
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
Originally Posted by jallencrockett
...the QDMA mindset of killing all does...


Statements like that are absurd. QDMA supports sound wildlife management principles and practices, such as improving doe-to-buck ratios. I am not a QDMA member but they provide some excellent resources to hunters and land managers.

Last edited by WildlifeBiologist; 04/29/18 01:46 PM.

Micah 6:8
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: jhardy] #2472398
04/29/18 07:18 AM
04/29/18 07:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
W
WildlifeBiologist Offline
10 point
WildlifeBiologist  Offline
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W
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
Originally Posted by jhardy

• Baiting has the potential to accelerate transmission of diseases such as chronic wasting disease (CWD).


Fair question, jhardy. Concentrating animals of the same species can accelerate disease spread if/when it enters that local population. Same is true for domestic animals. Just ask a poultry farmer how quickly things can spiral from a few sick birds to loss of an entire chicken house. Also true for viral infections in humans. We know the stories personally. A student contagious with the flu goes to school. Within days, flu virus is sweeping through the school. Concentration accelerated transmission from one infected kid to a large number of students and faculty, who then spread it to others at home. You may recall schools last winter that closed for several days. Why? To break the cycle by reducing concentration of people. But, if that same sick kid stays home with minimal contact with others, then it slows or even prevents the spread.

Last edited by WildlifeBiologist; 04/30/18 06:41 AM.

Micah 6:8
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: WildlifeBiologist] #2472416
04/29/18 08:11 AM
04/29/18 08:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
14 point
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted by WildlifeBiologist
Originally Posted by jhardy

• Baiting has the potential to accelerate transmission of diseases such as chronic wasting disease (CWD).


Fair question, jhardy. Concentrating animals of the same species can accelerate disease spread if/when it enters that local population. Same is true for domestic animals. Just ask a poultry farmer how quickly things can spiral from a few sick birds to loss of an entire chicken house. Same it true for viral infections in humans. We know the stories personally. A student contagious with the flu goes to school. Within days, it is sweeping through the school. Concentration accelerated transmission from one infected kid to a large number of students and faculty, who then spread it to others at home. You may recall schools last winter that closed for several days. Why? To break the cycle by reducing concentration of people. But, if that same sick kid stays home with minimal contact with others, then it slows or even prevents the spread.



Once again, I am as neutral as can be on the subject. But if the DCNR shot callers are so concerned with the herd health, why arent they making as big of a move to stop supplemental feeding and granny in the back yard with the same effort as a person without a gun watching his dog work? What's the feeding potential harm vs.guy without a gun potential harm? Feeding "potentially" could cripple the DCNR with deer complete die off. Guy without a gun at no point in anyway is going to hurt the wildlife of DCNR.

That comes across as the push for money exceeds what's best for wildlife.

Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: jallencrockett] #2472427
04/29/18 08:26 AM
04/29/18 08:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,092
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
Freak of Nature
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Posts: 36,092
alabama
Originally Posted by jallencrockett
I guess I would say that it is the QDMA mindset of killing all does that has greatly diminished the quality of outdoor experience in the state and in that aspect how can QDMA ever be trusted or listened too EVER AGAIN for what is best for a deer herd in Alabama. That is a legitimate question that needs to be asked???


Your ADCNR pushed the same idea just as hard, every biologist in the state said you could not kill too many does and hunters bought into it. State limit of two does per day for the whole season???? WTF?

good mornin Allen


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: BigUncleLeroy] #2472430
04/29/18 08:29 AM
04/29/18 08:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,092
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,092
alabama
how is stopping supplemental feeding going to IMPROVE herd health???


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: BigUncleLeroy] #2472473
04/29/18 09:22 AM
04/29/18 09:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 549
ALABAMA
Boom Offline
4 point
Boom  Offline
4 point
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 549
ALABAMA
I don't care. Feed the deer if you want.


Boomy


HRCH Superchamp's Pocket Change MH, "PESO"
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: BhamFred] #2472488
04/29/18 09:41 AM
04/29/18 09:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,148
J
jallencrockett Offline
8 point
jallencrockett  Offline
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J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,148
Originally Posted by BhamFred
Originally Posted by jallencrockett
I guess I would say that it is the QDMA mindset of killing all does that has greatly diminished the quality of outdoor experience in the state and in that aspect how can QDMA ever be trusted or listened too EVER AGAIN for what is best for a deer herd in Alabama. That is a legitimate question that needs to be asked???


Your ADCNR pushed the same idea just as hard, every biologist in the state said you could not kill too many does and hunters bought into it. State limit of two does per day for the whole season???? WTF?

good mornin Allen


Morning.. I was assertting that the 2004 2 a day doe limit and QDMA position were one and the same essentially. We were told at our hunter safety course that if a doe comes out with nursing fawns to go ahead and shoot her as deer were like rats.

Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: jallencrockett] #2472514
04/29/18 10:25 AM
04/29/18 10:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by jallencrockett
We were told at our hunter safety course that if a doe comes out with nursing fawns to go ahead and shoot her as deer were like rats.

A hunter Ed instructor actually told you that?
I taught hunter Ed for several years. We never pushed any kind of game management.
Our job was to focus on safety and ethics.
Personally I don't shoot any doe with a fawn.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: Out back] #2472580
04/29/18 12:39 PM
04/29/18 12:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
W
WildlifeBiologist Offline
10 point
WildlifeBiologist  Offline
10 point
W
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
Originally Posted by Out back
Originally Posted by jallencrockett
We were told at our hunter safety course that if a doe comes out with nursing fawns to go ahead and shoot her as deer were like rats.

I taught hunter Ed for several years. We never pushed any kind of game management.
Our job was to focus on safety and ethics.


Bingo!

Last edited by WildlifeBiologist; 04/29/18 01:47 PM.

Micah 6:8
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: BhamFred] #2472609
04/29/18 01:29 PM
04/29/18 01:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
W
WildlifeBiologist Offline
10 point
WildlifeBiologist  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
Originally Posted by BhamFred
...every biologist in the state said you could not kill too many does...


Every biologist? Uh. No. Not even close. Years ago, Dr. Grant Wood gave a seminar for AGFC biologists. He told us that it was nearly impossible to kill too many does at that time. Did some agree with him? Sure. Most did not. Buck harvest exceeded doe harvest back then. Most biologists advocated a generally improved herd by protecting underage bucks and by improving doe-to-buck ratios. I reduced doe quota years ago on my own leases to offset the growing coyote predation problem.

In my opinion, state wildlife agencies failed to react fast enough in response to rising coyote predation over the past couple decades. Landowners and hunt clubs share some blame too. Even if the state allows 2 does/day, landowners and hunt clubs still hold the power to limit doe harvest on their own properties. Same goes for buck harvest. The government didn't cause all the problems and some can be fixed without government involvement.

Last edited by WildlifeBiologist; 04/29/18 01:35 PM.

Micah 6:8
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: Out back] #2472617
04/29/18 01:35 PM
04/29/18 01:35 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20,017
PDL, Fl
T
timbercruiser Offline
Freak of Nature
timbercruiser  Offline
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PDL, Fl
Originally Posted by Out back
[quote=jallencrockett] We were told at our hunter safety course that if a doe comes out with nursing fawns to go ahead and shoot her as deer were like rats.

A hunter Ed instructor actually told you that?
I taught hunter Ed for several years. We never pushed any kind of game management.
Our job was to focus on safety and ethics.
Personally I don't shoot any doe with a fawn. [/quote

We hosted 3 QDMA seminars at Troy about 15 or so years ago, it was about like a wild turkey meeting/fund raiser. Eat, listen to a few speakers and then it was SELL, SELL, SELL and make money time. I ask one of the biologist a similar question, "If a doe and two doe fawns come into a food plot, which one should you shoot?" He said "Shoot all three of them." I honestly can't remember what his name was.

Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: BigUncleLeroy] #2472626
04/29/18 01:39 PM
04/29/18 01:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
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WildlifeBiologist Offline
10 point
WildlifeBiologist  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,777
Athens, GA
I miss having the Deer Management Assistance Program (DMP). It had its challenges but overall was an excellent program and put more control in the hands of the local biologist. Hunt clubs dropped out as antlerless deer limits were expanded. Would be nice to see that program return.

Last edited by WildlifeBiologist; 04/29/18 01:50 PM.

Micah 6:8
Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: WildlifeBiologist] #2472649
04/29/18 02:00 PM
04/29/18 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
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Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted by WildlifeBiologist
I miss having the Deer Management Assistance Program (DMP). It had its challenges but overall was an excellent program and put more control in the hands of the local biologist. Hunt clubs dropped out as antlerless deer limits were expanded. Would be nice to see that program return.


How long were you in the area you retired from? You probably remember better than I do the DMAP farm from our area in about 1980. I mentioned it a few days ago on here. It was next to Gray Rocks.

Re: Am I alone in not supporting the baiting bill? [Re: BigUncleLeroy] #2472688
04/29/18 03:06 PM
04/29/18 03:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,092
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
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Posts: 36,092
alabama
DMAP was a good program, but the biologists in early/mid 80s still pushed doe tags to kill more does. Hell , we got 50 tags on 2000 acres of mostly hardwood swamp. We wouldn't of gotten 50 tags if SOMEONE wasn't for killing 50 does. We damn sure didn't make the recs. First season we shot hell out of does the landowner said we killed them all, I ain't seeing any deer at all. You could really see more bucks than does, esp on greenfields.

and I agree the dept(read biologists in charge) reacted way the hell too slowly to growning fawn predation by yotes, DISREGARDING ANY INPUT BY HUNTERS TO THE AMOUNT OF PREDATION TAKING PLACE. Because the biologists in chgarge had not run any studies to determine IF and how much there was predation.

two biggest lies by the dept in 80's to early 90s....
2. You cannot kill too many does by sport hunting
3. Yotes ain't making any dent in deer numbers


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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