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Thoughts on new arrow build #2429049
03/08/18 07:50 PM
03/08/18 07:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,747
Hoover, AL
M48scout Offline OP
12 point
M48scout  Offline OP
12 point
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,747
Hoover, AL
Trying to build up a nice arrow set up for my new bow.

GOAL: ability to hunt both deer in Alabama and probably one elk hunt this fall
BOW: Carbon Icon (335 fps IBO), 71 lbs, 29" draw
What I think I want: mid to mid-high weight to carry momentum and minimize noise, but not so elevated as to lose excessive speed, and as high of FOC as possible

Broadhead choice: 125 fixed blade. In the style of either Solid Broadhead or Dirtnap DRT

I've researched till my head is spinning, and discovering that this archery stuff is complicated. What I can gather is that I need to find a durable shaft with as "minimum of GPI as possible per spine" so that I can load a heavy head+insert to gain the FOC I want. I've discussed with Easton and Bohning and here's what I came up with:

Hexx 260 shaft (new spine out the last couple weeks) cut to 28.5" carbon length
50 grain insert
125 gr broadhead
Bohning Heat Vanes, 1 degree offset, 4-fletch so I can align with main blade plus bleeders

468gr total weight, 16.1% FOC, and 286 fps est speed.

What are your thoughts? Easton said that length plus broadhead/insert gave it proper spine using the new "260" spine they came out with (can't remember if I needed to possibly add another 1/2" or so to make optimum). The 75gr insert made it weak spined I believe. The Bohning people said if I wanted to go 4-fletch to consider the Heat vane at 1degree offset. He said it was quiet and should stabilize the broadhead if I was well tuned.

If this is reasonable, I was going to get 6 arrows put together and see how they fly. If you see an error in my thinking please let me know, or if you think I'm on target with my way of thinking please also chime in.

Thanks

Last edited by M48scout; 03/08/18 07:53 PM.
Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429122
03/08/18 08:40 PM
03/08/18 08:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,644
Pine Hill, Al
sluggun Offline
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sluggun  Offline
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Pine Hill, Al
I think if it were me I would go with gold tip hunter pro 300 cut 29". This should bring you in around 450 grains. Gold tips seem to be more durable and cheaper than Easton in my experience.


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Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429216
03/08/18 09:30 PM
03/08/18 09:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,747
Hoover, AL
M48scout Offline OP
12 point
M48scout  Offline OP
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Hoover, AL
10-4, thanks for the input. I'm guessing by that you're thinking forget the insert/associated FOC and just go with a more durable high GPI shaft.

Do you have any opinion on the vanes? I'm wanting to give the best chance for a large diameter fixed blade to fly true while staying relatively quiet.

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429236
03/08/18 09:38 PM
03/08/18 09:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
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Tuscaloosa Co.
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N2TRKYS Offline
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I've don't worry about trying to add extra weight to the front of my arrow. Lining up the vanes with the blades is a myth from my experience. I've never had it make any difference.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429257
03/08/18 09:49 PM
03/08/18 09:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 15,171
Ourtown, AL
BCLC Online IMG_0051.GIF
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BCLC  Online IMG_0051.GIF
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Ourtown, AL
I prefer maxing out the gpi on my arrow shafts AND run a heavy insert with additional brass weights when I build hunting arrows (generally somewhere between 550-600gr). IMO between the 2 broadhead choices you listed I'd go with the Solid brand. The 25gr weight on the DRT just does not spin true. They spin fine at 100gr but as soon as you add the 25gr collar it wobbles like it's been drinking. I prefer a 3 fletch Blazer with slight helical to stabilize fixed blade broadheads but I also paper tune, bareshaft tune, and then finally broadhead tune from 20yds out to 60yds. I know Shaw has been shooting some 4 fletch gold tips so maybe he can offer up some opinions on that particular setup.


We’re not dead. We just smell that way. Dayum. - AC870

Yessir! I’m always gonna shoot what makes me happy and I want everyone else to do the same! If you shoot one be proud of it and don’t worry what anyone else thinks. - SJ22
Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429276
03/08/18 09:59 PM
03/08/18 09:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,747
Hoover, AL
M48scout Offline OP
12 point
M48scout  Offline OP
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Hoover, AL
Thanks BCLC. That's real good info on the DRT ... I'll just avoid that one.

N2 - I didn't know that about lining up the vanes. Interesting. I thought there was something to it ... I'm still interested in the 4 fletch Heat option from what they said on quietness. I'll keep reading up

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429286
03/08/18 10:06 PM
03/08/18 10:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
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Tuscaloosa Co.
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N2TRKYS Offline
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I think Shaw really likes his 4 vane setup. Thunderhead 100s or 125s would be another good option.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429333
03/08/18 10:22 PM
03/08/18 10:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,644
Pine Hill, Al
sluggun Offline
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sluggun  Offline
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Originally Posted by M48scout
10-4, thanks for the input. I'm guessing by that you're thinking forget the insert/associated FOC and just go with a more durable high GPI shaft.

Do you have any opinion on the vanes? I'm wanting to give the best chance for a large diameter fixed blade to fly true while staying relatively quiet.



I run the standard two inch blazers with a 3 degree right helical. Four fletch will definitely give you more stability but you don't have to do that to align broadhead blades. That use to be a thing 25 years ago but today's broadheads don't require doing that. I do four fletchings for added accuracy. Put a nufletch igniter nock in the back and you'll be set to kill anything in North America. This setup will give you enough weight for penetration without sacrificing to much speed.


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Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429334
03/08/18 10:23 PM
03/08/18 10:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
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Hoover, AL
M48scout Offline OP
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M48scout  Offline OP
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A buddy of mine swears by Thunderheads. I just liked the cut on contact design of the Solids/DRT/Silver Flame type design. But there's no arguing with a design that's been around as long as Thunderhead

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429340
03/08/18 10:28 PM
03/08/18 10:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
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Tuscaloosa Co.
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N2TRKYS Offline
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As crazy as it sounds, some States don't allow lighted nocks. This may or may not come into play for your elk hunt. My point is, just be sure and read the regs.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: N2TRKYS] #2429351
03/08/18 10:37 PM
03/08/18 10:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,644
Pine Hill, Al
sluggun Offline
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sluggun  Offline
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Originally Posted by N2TRKYS
As crazy as it sounds, some States don't allow lighted nocks. This may or may not come into play for your elk hunt. My point is, just be sure and read the regs.



Another reason to use nufletch. Just take the battery out and it's not a lighted nock anymore. Battery only weighs 7 grains so it won't affect your point of aim until you're past 50 yards.


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Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429360
03/08/18 10:44 PM
03/08/18 10:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,747
Hoover, AL
M48scout Offline OP
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M48scout  Offline OP
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Hoover, AL
Oh yeah, Idaho does not. I do not understand the reasoning behind that at all!! What advantage would it provide aside from recovering game? Whatever haha

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429419
03/09/18 12:23 AM
03/09/18 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by M48scout
Oh yeah, Idaho does not. I do not understand the reasoning behind that at all!! What advantage would it provide aside from recovering game? Whatever haha


It doesn't and it's only advantage elk hunting will more than likely only be where you hit and where's your arrow.

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429420
03/09/18 12:26 AM
03/09/18 12:26 AM
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kodiak06 Offline
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If your Icon is set to "comfort", you will not get 286fps with that arrow. You may squeak it out in performance but, I don't think so.
Here's my current numbers

Icon set to "comfort"
72#
29 draw
Black eagle Outlaw 350 arrows cut 28.25" total weight 407gr
289fps

I've shot a few elk with that set-up, all dead.

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: M48scout] #2429421
03/09/18 12:35 AM
03/09/18 12:35 AM
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kodiak06 Offline
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Right now I'm in the process of testing another arrow for elk hunting, mainly my sons bow maxed to 72#. If I keep mine on 72# I'll probably use the same. I ordered the arrows today to test.
Black Eagle Outlaw 350 cut to 28" carbon to carbon
125gr head
42 gr brass insert
Total weight 462gr
His bow set to "classic will be around 280fps and seriously mess up an elks day.

There's no doubt loading the front will help in penetration.. You just can't go too far. I have a local that's shooting 200gr up front and his arrows pack a serious punch! He's a killing machine too.
Have fun playing with the set-up. on a side note, you don't need a low GPI arrow to get a heavy front arrow. For elk, I stay above 400gr and I know it's enough. My 62# bow shoots 407gr at 267fps and is plenty to kill an elk as well. In fact, I'll probably hunt mostly with my 62# bow this year if my shoulder continues to hurt.

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: sluggun] #2429422
03/09/18 12:38 AM
03/09/18 12:38 AM
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kodiak06 Offline
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Originally Posted by sluggun
Originally Posted by N2TRKYS
As crazy as it sounds, some States don't allow lighted nocks. This may or may not come into play for your elk hunt. My point is, just be sure and read the regs.



Another reason to use nufletch. Just take the battery out and it's not a lighted nock anymore. Battery only weighs 7 grains so it won't affect your point of aim until you're past 50 yards.

It's still a lighted nock. They were illegal here until 2yrs ago. We can't have any electronics on bow either so, that's like saying take out the batteries and it's not electronic. Those nocks lasted less than a day on my arrows. Hike and bike a few miles and the rattle from them will drive you nuts.

Re: Thoughts on new arrow build [Re: kodiak06] #2429423
03/09/18 12:46 AM
03/09/18 12:46 AM
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kodiak06 Offline
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Forgot to add, your arrow choice seems fine other than I'm not familiar with that spine. It may be too stiff OR your up front weight/lgnth may correct . Come up with another set up and build both. Then test both and pick the best one. One of my test arrows will have 2 degree offset vanes, the other will have 3 degree helical. Curious to see if the helical fly my thunderheads any different.


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