His mission was to seek and to save that which was lost. Also, baptism doesn't save ( depending on who you talk to of course ). It's an act of obedience. Concerning the Old Testament saints, they were cleansed through faith, just as the New Testament saints were. The Old Testament saints had faith in what was to come ( Christ ) even though the crucifixion and resurrection hadn't happened yet it's coming was evident in the O.T. scriptures... The New Testament saints have faith in what has already happened. The book of Hebrews helps understand this.

You didn't hear me brother. I never said anything about a building. I have seen the most powerful church services you can imagine in the prisons of Africa or in a grass hut in the Amazon jungle. I've planted home churches so I absolutely have no issue with that at all. But what I'm saying is this. I would never plant a home church with a leader who had ought with the body of Christ. EVER. I hope that makes more sense.

You haven't in the least man. Don't worry about it. I hate what has happened to you. It's wrong and happens to people all the time. I don't pretend to know what you've gone through but I can sympathize. You wouldn't believe what I've seen by some church members. Notice I said church members and not Christians. I would encourage you in the fact that Jesus loves you and want's you to have joy and a place to worship. Don't give up. Jesus didn't give up on us and I know that I have done Him wrong more times than I can probably count. If you would like to go to church with me to see that they aren't all the way some are, then p.m. me ... I would love to meet you.

You're attempting to try to get to heaven your way. Hate to break it to you but if it's not per God's instructions it won't work

Anytime a human attempts to “out think” or “out reason” God is really sad... Your thought process is nothing more than you simply trying to justify being lost. It is your right to make your own decision but I think what the majority of post are trying to say is that thought process is dangerous my friend. But as I said, Its your decision and only yours.

That's right. Kind of. He didn't pray to the Jewish church, but he did pray to His Father. Christ(speaking of Peter) said that, "Upon this rock I will build my church." A lot of scholars believe that Peter's belief in Christ and his ultimate salvation through Christ's death and resurrection to be the foundation of the "church". The "church" consists of ALL believers in Christ. The church on the street corners around us are due to the evolution of meetings among Christians.

I am convinced that most people don't want the truth, they only want what they want. It was that way before Jesus, while Jesus was here, and after he ascended. Jesus, the perfect example and teacher, couldn't convince everyone so some people are not reachable. We have God's word and it is powerful, but when people ignore, discount or reject it, what chance do I have.

If it was good enough for _________ (Mama, Daddy, whoever???), then it's good enough for me, is the thinking of many folks. So many people take easy to understand passages that they don't agree with and try and explain them away because it conflicts with their prior teaching. Some people hold on to one passage at the exclusion of all others. Truth consists of all that God had to say on a subject and it is all in harmony with all other passages. Religious groups teach different doctrines. One or both are wrong. Division is condemned. The only way to unity is to use the bible as the only source of authority, to worship like they did in the first century by using approved examples, commands and instructions and necessary inferences.

Jesus said the narrow way was difficult and few there would be that find it. The broad way is easy and many are going in, including religious folks. Jesus tells us there will be sincere people who believe and work for him that are lost and will be arguing with him on the day of judgment (Matt 7:21ff). Just who are these sincere lost people???

We are not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together (Heb 10:25). The Lord adds people to the church (Acts 2:47). We are saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9). We are children of God through faith because we have been baptized (Gal 3:26-27). Jesus said that a person must believe and be baptized to be saved (Mark 16:16). They came together on the first day of the week (Sunday) to break bread (Partake of the Lord's supper) (Acts 20:7). Collections of money are done on the first day of the week (I Cor 16:1-2).

God's ways are not our ways nor His thoughts, our thoughts...

I agree with this statement. Spot on!

I'm convinced that possibly a majority of Christians don't truly understand what they believe in. It is the outcome of indoctrination and socialization. There is no objectivity in what most believe and they seem to believe it just because that's what they believe. But they really don't know why and they immediately are offended and close their mind/thoughts completely to anything that could call any aspect of what they believe into question. Some can blindly believe in their heart and never question. I wish I was one of those people. I would make life so much more simple when it comes to faith. Unfortunately however, I am not one of those people..

I believe Christianity is on the decline because the Western countries are mostly developed at this point. However the religion has not evolved such as it has in the past. I think that's a product of science and understanding having come at us so fast that the religion has not had the chance to catch up. Maybe to take that a step further it hasn't even really tried. There is a culture to remain steadfast in the face of insurmountable odds. To me that is what will lead to Christianity's demise as a dominate religion in the world.

Christianity evolved when the Roman's adopted it. It was written by people who believed the world was flat, that there were dragons, that if you were sick you could cut their arm and they could bleed out the illness,.... I could go on. That is undeniable. They had no idea there were dinosaurs, no concept of old the earth really was, no concept of evolution... this was not a modern civilization or privy to modern science. There was no running water, no electricity. I think we loose sight of that. We are beating on the scripture every Sunday but we don't dare call anything into question. We are afraid we'd be labeled as some sort of Heretic. We'd be shunned by our fellow church members and thus we don't discuss it. It is viewed as that thing.... Shhhh! Don't say that. Nobody talks about that.

Within the Church itself there was also varying opinion and interpretation and that still exists today. Prior to 396AD Saint Augustine, who was one of the main scholars of the early church believed in Predestination among other things that we no long believe today. He was a Catholic scholar and one of many. There were also Protestant Scholars and Secular Scholars. That's why we have different sects within Christianity. "Baptists" as a group were not even around until the 17th century and rooted in the English Separatists movement. Until the 1600's Baptists didn't even exist. But we believe today that every word was written by the hand of God and that this is the absolute truth word for word and that there is only one interpretation. That interpretation is whatever we individually believe and it varies significantly. Well... this type of viewpoint.... it wasn't always been that way. From one Christian to another we don't even believe exactly the same points. If you don't understand that you might want to look into that a little bit. Because in my opinion you don't fully understand what you believe in.

That being said I attend Church believe in God and in Jesus Christ, have been Baptized in the name of the Lord and I honestly think I could teach a College level course on either the Old or New Testament. I'm not calling anyone's faith into question. I'm simply concerned that there seems to be ZERO deeper understanding of our faith.

This!!!! Amen and amen

Hit the nail on the head...A lot of churches only follow the Bible when it is easy or convenient.

Our ministry (church) gathers at the local park, under a pavilion every Sunday for worship. We are a church without walls.

Biggest problem, I have with religion and church's is that they all think their better than the other religions and church's.

Church is a business also. Some bigger than others. Just look at the house the pastor lives in and sends his kids to private school while the majority of tithers in the church struggle to make ends meet. I know this from being a former president of the men's club plus being a board member. But you don't keep those positions long when you call folks out for playing church politics.

[quote=leroycnbucks]Church is a business also. Some bigger than others. Just look at the house the pastor lives in and sends his kids to private school while the majority of tithers in the church struggle to make ends meet. I know this from being a former president of the men's club plus being a board member. But you don't keep those positions long when you call folks out for playing church politics.

One thing I have always wondered is what some of these pastors at some of the mega churches make just in Ala. Has anyone ever heard and I wonder if you picked up the phone and called a few church offices and ask if they would tell you.

Okay ? How ?

By talking to them.They gossip and judge more than anybody I know.

I know there may be SOME like this, but the vast majority of pastors that I've ever known were bi-vocational. Everyone of them had wives that worked. None of the ones I've known have kids in private schools.

Your talking to the wrong ones. PM me and let's chat. Maybe I can be the exception.