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Re: Church rant [Re: Jakethesnake] #2413156
02/19/18 10:31 PM
02/19/18 10:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 195
Northport, Alabama
Z
ZS81 Offline
3 point
ZS81  Offline
3 point
Z
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 195
Northport, Alabama
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
I consider myself a man of God and always have. I just cant believe if we arent saved then we are damned. I dont believe im goin to hell if im not baptised. It just dont make sense to me. As well as giving 10 or 20 percent of my income to a church. Lets meet outside and have church. Look at all that big money spent on church buildings and huge properties. It dont feel rite to me. Folks going hungry and poor and those huge churches everywhere. And then they pass the offering plate around. I see very few churches that arent about social status, games and baby sitting. I thought we gathered to learn God instead of 10 minutes of preaching and the rest playing


Maybe I have misunderstood, but your second sentence here is troubling. The Bible is very clear that there is only one way to Heaven.

Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413165
02/19/18 10:41 PM
02/19/18 10:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,182
Chilton
P
Powpow65 Offline
10 point
Powpow65  Offline
10 point
P
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,182
Chilton
I have always wanted to go to black church. It just looks fun. Maybe you should get a purple suit and get the wife a hat and try black church this Sunday. Funny story, my mother in law was at a black church (for some reason I don't remember) way back before I met my wife. She said she was getting into the singing with everyone else and was clapping and raising her hands when suddenly she knocks the weave off a lady sitting on the pew in front of her.

Re: Church rant [Re: ZS81] #2413168
02/19/18 10:43 PM
02/19/18 10:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
Jakethesnake Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Jakethesnake  Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
Originally Posted by ZS81
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
I consider myself a man of God and always have. I just cant believe if we arent saved then we are damned. I dont believe im goin to hell if im not baptised. It just dont make sense to me. As well as giving 10 or 20 percent of my income to a church. Lets meet outside and have church. Look at all that big money spent on church buildings and huge properties. It dont feel rite to me. Folks going hungry and poor and those huge churches everywhere. And then they pass the offering plate around. I see very few churches that arent about social status, games and baby sitting. I thought we gathered to learn God instead of 10 minutes of preaching and the rest playing


Maybe I have misunderstood, but your second sentence here is troubling. The Bible is very clear that there is only one way to Heaven.



Sooo...every single human that lived BEFORE Jesus came.....burned in Hell????? I believe in Jesus and believe his story was true. I have not been Baptised. I dont think God would send me to Hell because im not Baptised. If he loves me and im a decent human, fear him and respect him then why would he send me to Hell over this? I also believe that a lot of the new testament is man and government persuaded. No more eye for an eye talk. Sounds like they want to control us by brain washing us and to just roll over and take it. Its a lot easier to keep control of people with that kind of teaching. The government would benifit from that. Its like the government got rid of the old testament. They wrote the new testament. Over and over years ago. Picked pieces and discarded pieces. To keep control of the population. Back when the new bible was written, they were trying to control land and gain new land. So im not sure how much of it to believe when i cant read every piece of the literature that was written. Im a believer but in my mind a lot of it is to surrender and dont fight back. That scares me when i know that man fiddled with all the info and picked certain scriptures. But there are plenty of good churches. You just gotta find the rite one i guess. I have found good ones.

Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413171
02/19/18 10:45 PM
02/19/18 10:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,126
KY
AUstan23 Offline
10 point
AUstan23  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,126
KY
Originally Posted by ford150man
Just tired of folks seemingly going out of their way to try and treat me like sh!t. Then on the flip side there's those that act like they don't even know me. All this over a year after I left. Folks like that don't need Satan's help tearing down churches.


I think what you gotta understand is most people are there out of habit and for appearances. They don't really try to better understand the messages, apply it to their lives, reflect, and challenge themselves. That is why I quit going. I have my deepest thoughts when I'm alone. It is easier to conquer 1000 men than to conquer yourself (the ego, emotional appeals, past trauma).


It is easier to fool a man than to convince him he has been fooled.
Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413179
02/19/18 10:55 PM
02/19/18 10:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 601
AL
C
Cummins Offline
4 point
Cummins  Offline
4 point
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 601
AL
Originally Posted by ford150man
I know this is going to step on some toes and some will tell me how I’m not saved and such but I know my heart and I know my relationship with Jesus. WIth that said, I have been thinking about this for a long time and I have just about decided that church, or organized religion, is the biggest joke on modern day Christianity. I’m going to go ahead and step out there and say I hate it. There it is. I said it. I grew up in it. Got away for a while, but came back and got involved in one and really started growing. Taught children Sunday School and then an adult class. Even became an ordained deacon. That was one of the worst things I could have done as I started learning more about the politics of a church and what goes on behind the scenes. I ended up making my concerns known to a few leaders of the church and you’d have thought I had double crossed the mafia. I might as well have been put on a deserted island. I realize I became guilty of putting my faith in people and it burned me badly. I ended up leaving that church. One of the things that sucks most of all about that is I have had numerous people come to me saying they wished they had the courage to do what I did but after seeing the sh!t I’ve gone through, they won’t risk it. I truly wonder what Jesus would say to our church leaders, about how churches are ran, if He sat and had a conversation with them. Before someone starts, I know, Christians are sinners and hypocrites and church is where they are supposed to be, just like a hospital isn’t for well people. Or here’s another one, you can’t love Jesus if you don’t love church because the church is His bride. I’ve heard them all and used most of them myself. Who says what YOU call church is what church is supposed to be? To use an old saying of mine of my early adulthood, you’ll find friendlier people in a bar than you will in church. They are usually more honest too. Rant over.


I'm not the smartest guy on here to respond and not sure it this applies to well. I grew up real poor, seen many die, drank alot whiskey, loved to fight, and getting hit hard by someone...not normal, became hardened, loved sex especially with whiskey involved, then hurt other people, I became greedy, I made lots of money and lost it all. 25 yrs ago when my daughter was born I joined a Church, and made a decision to turn my life around. I was not the kind of guy that would show up at church for religion. I chose a non-domination church because they overlooked my long hair, and horrible ways but took me in anyway. I didnt fit in ANY Church. I hated religion and sorry deacons and political crap. I just came to worship with my bandana and leave, and no strings attached....that's just me. I pray hard, I still drink a little whiskey, and chew tobacco, and fish and hunt. However, I have experienced the holy spirit, and I know and he knows I have changed for the better. My name is written in the Lambs Book of Life or it better. Money is not an issue for me today, he has blessed me. Farm and Lake House is paid off and doors have been opening all the time since I surrender my old life and found a good Church. Find another Church without religion and all the crap, or come with me if you want.

Re: Church rant [Re: Jakethesnake] #2413180
02/19/18 10:56 PM
02/19/18 10:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
Booger Offline
Picker
Booger  Offline
Picker
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
Originally Posted by ZS81
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
I consider myself a man of God and always have. I just cant believe if we arent saved then we are damned. I dont believe im goin to hell if im not baptised. It just dont make sense to me. As well as giving 10 or 20 percent of my income to a church. Lets meet outside and have church. Look at all that big money spent on church buildings and huge properties. It dont feel rite to me. Folks going hungry and poor and those huge churches everywhere. And then they pass the offering plate around. I see very few churches that arent about social status, games and baby sitting. I thought we gathered to learn God instead of 10 minutes of preaching and the rest playing


Maybe I have misunderstood, but your second sentence here is troubling. The Bible is very clear that there is only one way to Heaven.



Sooo...every single human that lived BEFORE Jesus came.....burned in Hell????? I believe in Jesus and believe his story was true. I have not been Baptised. I dont think God would send me to Hell because im not Baptised. If he loves me and im a decent human, fear him and respect him then why would he send me to Hell over this? I also believe that a lot of the new testament is man and government persuaded. No more eye for an eye talk. Sounds like they want to control us by brain washing us and to just roll over and take it. Its a lot easier to keep control of people with that kind of teaching. The government would benifit from that. Its like the government got rid of the old testament. They wrote the new testament. Over and over years ago. Picked pieces and discarded pieces. To keep control of the population


Pick'n and a grin'n
Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413183
02/19/18 11:00 PM
02/19/18 11:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
Booger Offline
Picker
Booger  Offline
Picker
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
I believe before Jesus died and was resurrected people had to live by the laws set forth in the Old Testament. There were lots of them and it felt more like a "religion" I'm sure. When Christ came to this earth and died for our sins then the law was done away with and we were allowed to have not just a religion but a relationship with the Father, if we accepted Christ as our savior.

Last edited by Booger; 02/19/18 11:01 PM.

Pick'n and a grin'n
Re: Church rant [Re: Jakethesnake] #2413184
02/19/18 11:00 PM
02/19/18 11:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,126
KY
AUstan23 Offline
10 point
AUstan23  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,126
KY
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
Originally Posted by ZS81
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
I consider myself a man of God and always have. I just cant believe if we arent saved then we are damned. I dont believe im goin to hell if im not baptised. It just dont make sense to me. As well as giving 10 or 20 percent of my income to a church. Lets meet outside and have church. Look at all that big money spent on church buildings and huge properties. It dont feel rite to me. Folks going hungry and poor and those huge churches everywhere. And then they pass the offering plate around. I see very few churches that arent about social status, games and baby sitting. I thought we gathered to learn God instead of 10 minutes of preaching and the rest playing


Maybe I have misunderstood, but your second sentence here is troubling. The Bible is very clear that there is only one way to Heaven.



Sooo...every single human that lived BEFORE Jesus came.....burned in Hell????? I believe in Jesus and believe his story was true. I have not been Baptised. I dont think God would send me to Hell because im not Baptised. If he loves me and im a decent human, fear him and respect him then why would he send me to Hell over this? I also believe that a lot of the new testament is man and government persuaded. No more eye for an eye talk. Sounds like they want to control us by brain washing us and to just roll over and take it. Its a lot easier to keep control of people with that kind of teaching. The government would benifit from that. Its like the government got rid of the old testament. They wrote the new testament. Over and over years ago. Picked pieces and discarded pieces. To keep control of the population. Back when the new bible was written, they were trying to control land and gain new land. So im not sure how much of it to believe when i cant read every piece of the literature that was written. Im a believer but in my mind a lot of it is to surrender and dont fight back. That scares me when i know that man fiddled with all the info and picked certain scriptures. But there are plenty of good churches. You just gotta find the rite one i guess. I have found good ones.


Uh oh somebody is a little too woke, better bop him on the head before the others quit giving their money too.


It is easier to fool a man than to convince him he has been fooled.
Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413192
02/19/18 11:11 PM
02/19/18 11:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
Jakethesnake Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Jakethesnake  Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
Jesus's mission was to FIGHT corrupt government and corrupt churches. He even flipped over tables and such. He fought the bad government that killed him. Now we are suppose to turn the other cheek???? Jesus didnt turn the other cheek, he fought back to the point they killed him. But now the new testament says DO NOT fight back? It just dont add up to what Jesus did in his OWN actions. Food for thought.

Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413202
02/19/18 11:21 PM
02/19/18 11:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 8,103
Moundville, Al
SuperSpike Offline
40 Year Old Bowhunting Virgin
SuperSpike  Offline
40 Year Old Bowhunting Virgin
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 8,103
Moundville, Al
Well im probably the last person on this site that should be posting on this thread. Just to be brutally honest i struggle with faith quite a bit. However i do know a couple of things that are facts about a church.

None are perfect. If you say "we've found the perfect church", its just because everything is going your way right now.

Also, God knows every mans heart and intentions. You can fool the body of the church but youll never fool God.

Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413203
02/19/18 11:21 PM
02/19/18 11:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,486
Guntersville
AC870 Offline
Old Mossy Horns
AC870  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,486
Guntersville
I would caution you on giving up on church completely.
As evidence, I’d point to Hebrews 10:23-25:
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

I’d also say you DO need baptism. Just being a pretty good fellow is nowhere near enough. We are saved by grace through faith. In Mark 16:16, Jesus himself said “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”


“Killing tomorrow’s trophies today.”

On the distance I like to walk to my stands:
“The first 100 yards is also the last 100 yards.”
Re: Church rant [Re: Booger] #2413204
02/19/18 11:22 PM
02/19/18 11:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
Jakethesnake Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Jakethesnake  Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
Originally Posted by Booger
I believe before Jesus died and was resurrected people had to live by the laws set forth in the Old Testament. There were lots of them and it felt more like a "religion" I'm sure. When Christ came to this earth and died for our sins then the law was done away with and we were allowed to have not just a religion but a relationship with the Father, if we accepted Christ as our savior.



When Jesus was alive there was no christianity. It hadnt been formed yet because he...Christ was still alive. Jesus was a Jew. He read the Quran and prayed to the Jewish church. Thats a fact

Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413207
02/19/18 11:26 PM
02/19/18 11:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
My simple $.02 worth. If you are saved then you will want to publically proclaim this by being baptized. Being saved is the only doorway to salvation. Small churches and big churches both have their purposes. Small churches tend to be very traditional where members are most comfortable in traditional worship. I enjoy these services. Large churches seem to attract a more diverse crowd to learn about The Lord. Those are what I see as the biggest strengths. The weaknesses are that smaller churches don't seem to grow and attract new members. Larger churches often become battlegrounds for church politics and the problems Ford mentioned. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that they are different. It becomes a matter of personal taste.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413209
02/19/18 11:27 PM
02/19/18 11:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
Jakethesnake Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Jakethesnake  Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
So Jesus read the Quran, prayed to the jewish church and now im suppose to be christian and get baptised so i dont burn in hell. Yeah that makes perfect sense.

Re: Church rant [Re: Jakethesnake] #2413210
02/19/18 11:29 PM
02/19/18 11:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,126
KY
AUstan23 Offline
10 point
AUstan23  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,126
KY
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
Originally Posted by Booger
I believe before Jesus died and was resurrected people had to live by the laws set forth in the Old Testament. There were lots of them and it felt more like a "religion" I'm sure. When Christ came to this earth and died for our sins then the law was done away with and we were allowed to have not just a religion but a relationship with the Father, if we accepted Christ as our savior.



When Jesus was alive there was no christianity. It hadnt been formed yet because he...Christ was still alive. Jesus was a Jew. He read the Quran and prayed to the Jewish church. Thats a fact


You mean the Torah? Quran is islam, and they made up their chit after christianity, which came after judaism, hinduism, and Buddhism among others


It is easier to fool a man than to convince him he has been fooled.
Re: Church rant [Re: Jakethesnake] #2413212
02/19/18 11:36 PM
02/19/18 11:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
So Jesus read the Quran, prayed to the jewish church and now im suppose to be christian and get baptised so i dont burn in hell. Yeah that makes perfect sense.



Huh? Jesus was a Jew. He was/is the Messiah that was prophesized but rejected by what is now the modern day Jewish church. They are still waiting on a Messiah. It is actually pretty simple. Accept Jesus as your Savior and you receive Salvation. Reject him and you don't.

I have no idea what you mean by Jesus reading the Koran. Islam and Judaism follow the same tenets up until the time of Abraham and the differences between Isaac and Ishmael. That is where the roots of Islam were formed.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413216
02/19/18 11:45 PM
02/19/18 11:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
Jakethesnake Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Jakethesnake  Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,239
Alabama
Yes the Torah. That should be the most accurate i would think. Since it was God telling Moses. Its a long long story this religion stuff. Stories changing hands. Well im gonna say my prayers and go to sleep. Goodnight gentlemen

Re: Church rant [Re: Jakethesnake] #2413217
02/19/18 11:46 PM
02/19/18 11:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,080
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,080
Chelsea, AL
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
Originally Posted by ZS81
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
I consider myself a man of God and always have. I just cant believe if we arent saved then we are damned. I dont believe im goin to hell if im not baptised. It just dont make sense to me. As well as giving 10 or 20 percent of my income to a church. Lets meet outside and have church. Look at all that big money spent on church buildings and huge properties. It dont feel rite to me. Folks going hungry and poor and those huge churches everywhere. And then they pass the offering plate around. I see very few churches that arent about social status, games and baby sitting. I thought we gathered to learn God instead of 10 minutes of preaching and the rest playing


Maybe I have misunderstood, but your second sentence here is troubling. The Bible is very clear that there is only one way to Heaven.



Sooo...every single human that lived BEFORE Jesus came.....burned in Hell????? I believe in Jesus and believe his story was true. I have not been Baptised. I dont think God would send me to Hell because im not Baptised. If he loves me and im a decent human, fear him and respect him then why would he send me to Hell over this? I also believe that a lot of the new testament is man and government persuaded. No more eye for an eye talk. Sounds like they want to control us by brain washing us and to just roll over and take it. Its a lot easier to keep control of people with that kind of teaching. The government would benifit from that. Its like the government got rid of the old testament. They wrote the new testament. Over and over years ago. Picked pieces and discarded pieces. To keep control of the population. Back when the new bible was written, they were trying to control land and gain new land. So im not sure how much of it to believe when i cant read every piece of the literature that was written. Im a believer but in my mind a lot of it is to surrender and dont fight back. That scares me when i know that man fiddled with all the info and picked certain scriptures. But there are plenty of good churches. You just gotta find the rite one i guess. I have found good ones.


Jake,

I'd encourage you to do your own independent research on how scholars use the earliest known ancient Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and Latin manuscripts to create our traditional literal word-for-word or thought-for-thought Bible translations today. Don't trust all you read about cherry picking scripture. Read how the scholars do their work from their own account. Look at the details of the ancient texts. Follow the process of sound translations. I have and I'm confident that my Bibles are God's word breathed out and preserved for us and solidly translated into modern English as best as possible understanding that since Greek and English languages don't always jee haw, it takes a deep study into root words to gain a full comprehension.

The Bible addresses your question about those who died before Christ or died before they ever heard of Christ or without being under the OT law...Romans 2, specifically verses 12-16.

For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Romans 2:12‭-‬16 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.2.12-16.ESV


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: Church rant [Re: Jakethesnake] #2413227
02/20/18 12:07 AM
02/20/18 12:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,080
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,080
Chelsea, AL
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
Jesus's mission was to FIGHT corrupt government and corrupt churches. He even flipped over tables and such. He fought the bad government that killed him. Now we are suppose to turn the other cheek???? Jesus didnt turn the other cheek, he fought back to the point they killed him. But now the new testament says DO NOT fight back? It just dont add up to what Jesus did in his OWN actions. Food for thought.


In Jesus's time, a rude custom was to slap a person on the cheek as a high form of insult. Most people are right handed, so a backhand slap would be on the recipient's Left cheek, the other cheek. Jesus addressed this during the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5

But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 5:39 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.5.39.ESV


We still have phrases based on this today "backhand compliment" which is actually an insult. Jesus addressed dealing with that in a different way. Offer them your other cheek for them to insult, hence turning the other cheek phrase. He was urging people to be zealous in pursuing God, not eager to join in arguments and strife. He preached showing love that reflected Him and his love for all of us. He wasn't suggesting being a doormat or being abused, but to let God be in charge of vengeance.

Jesus did far more than turn the other cheek, he willingly gave his life for us. He wasn't fighting the corrupt Jewish and Roman governments for if he was he was capable of victory. He was bringing about the fulfillment of God's plan...his mission was to save the world with his atoning sacrifice.

Last edited by straycat; 02/20/18 12:14 AM.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: Church rant [Re: ford150man] #2413241
02/20/18 02:54 AM
02/20/18 02:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,777
alabama
outdoors1 Offline
10 point
outdoors1  Offline
10 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,777
alabama
Ask yourself what could you do to serve the Lord? Maybe keep the negative issues between you and the Lord. The last thing you want to do is stop someone from serving due to your own issues with the way things are ran in the church. The preacher can affect the moral of a church more than the people. Good ones usually pray to go where God needs them the most and that is one of the responsibilities of deacons is to come in to help find another one and help the transition. You are not there to serve the people, but to direct and guide people to be saved. Enourage others to serve in the church and just explain there is no limits to what you would do to serve the Lord. The problem is you will never get your appreciation here on earth, but when you stand to be judged by God. Two people could worship together and go in the community and lead more to be saved than 10,000 members. Some congregations think they have no sins and are in the church to socialize. Maybe invite others and maybe go out on Sundays during services and witness to those not in church. Encourage and motivate, but do not become the one to judge yourself. That is were we all can use some help. Not saying not to worship with your brethren just don't forget your work is not done just cause you are in church, it has only begun until your last breath. God Bless!

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