I know this is going to step on some toes and some will tell me how I’m not saved and such but I know my heart and I know my relationship with Jesus. WIth that said, I have been thinking about this for a long time and I have just about decided that church, or organized religion, is the biggest joke on modern day Christianity. I’m going to go ahead and step out there and say I hate it. There it is. I said it. I grew up in it. Got away for a while, but came back and got involved in one and really started growing. Taught children Sunday School and then an adult class. Even became an ordained deacon. That was one of the worst things I could have done as I started learning more about the politics of a church and what goes on behind the scenes. I ended up making my concerns known to a few leaders of the church and you’d have thought I had double crossed the mafia. I might as well have been put on a deserted island. I realize I became guilty of putting my faith in people and it burned me badly. I ended up leaving that church. One of the things that sucks most of all about that is I have had numerous people come to me saying they wished they had the courage to do what I did but after seeing the sh!t I’ve gone through, they won’t risk it. I truly wonder what Jesus would say to our church leaders, about how churches are ran, if He sat and had a conversation with them. Before someone starts, I know, Christians are sinners and hypocrites and church is where they are supposed to be, just like a hospital isn’t for well people. Or here’s another one, you can’t love Jesus if you don’t love church because the church is His bride. I’ve heard them all and used most of them myself. Who says what YOU call church is what church is supposed to be? To use an old saying of mine of my early adulthood, you’ll find friendlier people in a bar than you will in church. They are usually more honest too. Rant over.

There are plenty of churches like the one you described, but there are also plenty that aren't.

I get it. I do. I've had similar experiences in the past. I've also wished to return to the old days, sometimes...1 room church with singing, straight bible preaching, let the spirit move. Church committees, lots of staff, lots of ministries....can be great but can also add drama.

IDEA: Start a home church. Simple approach: Bible plus folks eager to worship, pray and grow. No drama. No politics.

Or better yet, start a church at a bar.
Choir practice and happy hour could coincide.

If the church isn't totally biblically based then it is man based not God based. You asked what Jesus would say to the churches. Just look in Revelation

Two of the problems with most churches is that they are not restrictive about church membership (only true Christians should be admitted as members) and are restrictive about applying church discipline.

You joke, but the florabama has a church that meets there.

Do you truly believe that only Christians should be admitted as members? Is that belief biblical? Where does it say that?

Ford man, I have been through your experience almost step for step. Except I was never a deacon.
I did teach Sunday school and and have been very active in a couple of different churches. I've found that I prefer small country churches that don't grow.
I know how awful that sounds, but in my experience,growth brings the politics.
Especially when someone decides to begin a building fund drive.
I truly don't believe Jesus meant for his church bride to be "a building".
I believe the church is anywhere that people gather to worship. I even believe it's possible to find your own church in the peacefulness of God's great outdoors.

You may attend but to be a member of Christ's Church you must be saved.

Surely you jest.

I don't that's exactly what he meant. I think Mark is saying that anyone should be allowed in the church, but only those who practice to be Christian should become members.
These all inclusive churches with homosexual pastors and perverted members are an abomination.

When one is saved he or she is automatically added to the church. Man has no say so.

[quote=MarksOutdoors]

Who gets to determine who is a “true Christian”?

This. There are no perfect churches but I get 100% what ford150 is saying. It's sad but true.
You dont have to be a member of a church to be a Christian but fellowship is part of what Christ intends.
Fellowship comes in different forms for some...depending on their situation.

Basically the entire new testament. This doesn't mean non professing people should be denied coming to church. To the contrary, they shouldnt. But only those who profess Christ are biblically considered to be the church. Not from a "Church roll " standpoint, but in the eyes of Christ. Christ gave Himself for the church. Scripture speaks of the bride of Christ being the church. We see hypocrisy in churches because honestly , it's there sometimes. But go to the underground church in China where they will throw you in prison for years if not worse for attending church and you may see the value of it. Go to the jungles of the Amazon where they gather and praise Jesus in Spirit and truth and you will see the true church. No matter what anyone says, the church is for believers and followers of Christ. " Forsake not the assembling of yourselves, as some are in the habit of doing" Hebrews 10 / 25. It's there for our good. Hang in there f150

I know that sounds radical, but if the church is made up of unbelievers, how effective is it going to be? Many churches have become so diluted and don't understand the full obligations of what a member is. Read about the early churches in Acts. You'll find no evidence that any of them meant to have anyone other than believers as members. That doesnt mean that anyone isnt welcome to attend.

Two ideas being discussed at once. Break it down with specific language please, so people are not confused.

Local church: the local church group (pastor, elders, staff, members, building, etc...)

The Church: The full body of believers of Christ as a whole

Both are scriptural. The local church is important in a wide variety of ways. Primary Role: Equipping and encouraging believers to grow in Christ through worship, teaching, preaching, fellowship (and other ways) in order that they may then go and serve and witness to their own families, their local community and out into the world for Christ to reach the lost so that then the non-believers can come to now Christ through the Holy Spirit AND the work of the local churches. When non-Christians visit a local church, hopefully they are welcomed and the Gospel is shared so that Christ may be glorified AND the visitors will come to know Christ eventually.

Since we are part of the fallen creation, men and women will mess up what is important at times.

My observation is most Churches these days are for social activities and have little to do with real religion.They entertain, not teach, and most do not hold to much in the way of moral standards. Most have caved to todays social norms in an effort to get people in the doors. I figure If you belong to a denomination that allows alternative lifestyle folks in leadership positions of any kind, you might as well be on the golf course or a tree stand as being in what they call a church on a Sunday morning.Plus, some of the biggest arses I have ever met were the most church going people you would ever want to meet. They lie, cheat, treat people like crap, but by golly they are "saved". And if your beliefs happen not to coincide with theirs, Katie bar the door, you will be roasting for sure.I think some folks are in for a rude awakening shortly after they take their last breath. My first real girl friend was the perfect example. She was in church 2 days a week, in the choir, youth group, everything. And every Friday and Saturday night we would be out doing everything her church said not to, but she was still convinced she was "saved". I did not dissuade her of her belief cause I liked how things were going, but I just do not think that is how its gonna work out.

The person professing belief in Christ. Whenever one requests church membership, the question needs to asked to that person if they have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Most churches I've ever been a part of never ask the question. They just accept their request by a vote of the church. Read, 9 Marks of a Healthy Church, by Mark Devers