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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: Claims Rep.] #2001273
01/23/17 09:04 AM
01/23/17 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: Claims Rep.
If only there could have been video... that would have been AlDeer GOLD!!! grin rofl


Yeah, fortunately no one saw it but me. I thought I’d done been bit.......by a headless snake! grin

It’s a pretty boring day today so far. I think its just the calm before the storm though. There should be one more big flurry of calls hit over the next week as these temps drop and the rut peaks. To be honest, I’m starting to feel like that die hard hunter who’s spent all season in a tree…..You’re sad to see it go but kinda happy its over at the same time. I’m closing in on that point. It’ll be sad to see the season go out but at the same time I’m looking forward to it being over for a while. I’m looking forward to the off season training and getting Shelby ready for next season. 18 days to go......


Some picture sharing of play time on a slow day…….













Last edited by CNC; 01/23/17 09:05 AM.

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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2001306
01/23/17 09:32 AM
01/23/17 09:32 AM
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Looks like a lot of fun is being had right there!

The snake thing is priceless. If you want, I'll catch you a rattlesnake and put it in a cage. That and some high grass is all you need. Dope the wind, walk them by on the downwind side, watch for the facial expression when they smell it, nail them with a high power for that dog and scream terrified and run away. As soon as they run, don't nail them anymore.

Most of mine would jump 5 feet in the air and change directions (in the air) when they ran up on a box turtle.


Whoever is happy will make others happy too. Anne Frank
Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: Geno] #2001334
01/23/17 09:58 AM
01/23/17 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: Geno
Looks like a lot of fun is being had right there!

The snake thing is priceless. If you want, I'll catch you a rattlesnake and put it in a cage. That and some high grass is all you need. Dope the wind, walk them by on the downwind side, watch for the facial expression when they smell it, nail them with a high power for that dog and scream terrified and run away. As soon as they run, don't nail them anymore.
Most of mine would jump 5 feet in the air and change directions (in the air) when they ran up on a box turtle.


I think Otis is pretty well broke from messin with snakes unless he just gets on one by accident. He got struck on the nose by a little rattler and that seems to be all it took for him to leave ‘em alone. I took the freezer snakes when I killed them and laid them out where I knew I was about to walk with Otis. He would see the snake well before he got to it and then give it a wide berth.... eyeballing the hell of it. I'll still probably do more practice runs with him with the freezer snakes from time to time just to reinforce it.


Shelby is the one that I’ve still got to do some more work with. I did all of the stuff your talking about doing with her last year except I didn’t hit her with the collar. We’re gonna start doing more work with the Garmin Alpha this summer and I’m gonna repeat the drill using the collar this year if she messes with it.

Last edited by CNC; 01/23/17 10:00 AM.

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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2002634
01/24/17 06:53 AM
01/24/17 06:53 AM
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This is simply just my opinion and you know what they so those are like…….but anyone who aims at the point of the shoulder I would encourage you to drop back behind the shoulder instead. I know there’s a DRT area on the point of the shoulder but its really not that big of a target when aiming in the heat of the moment.

After having tracked a decent amount of deer now, I’ve come to the conclusion that back in the deer’s body behind the shoulder is a much, much more forgiving target than in the front 1/3 of the body. You can hit all kinds of places from the front shoulder and forward where the deer may likely be unrecoverable…..but unless you just barely graze him, you can hit just about anywhere in the back 2/3 rds of the deer and there’s a very high chance of recovery if the right steps are taken. Even a back leg shot is a much more recoverable deer than a front leg shot.

Again, this is just my opinion but the X is about where I would aim with a gun or bow either one. You could actually even aim just a touch farther back than that if you wanted to.





Here is a picture of a deer cut open exposing the internal anatomy. See how big of a target those lungs and liver make. Even if you get way back in the guts then that’s still a very recoverable deer. You may have to bring in a dog but it’s a dead deer within a few hundred yards if you leave it alone. Just something to think about. Look at the front end of this deer and at your target if you aim at the point of the shoulder. Just a little too high or too low and you have a very marginal hit. You can blow up all kinds of meat and bone on a deer but if you don’t sink something off into those internal organs then he’s gonna be tough to hem up.



Last edited by CNC; 01/24/17 06:56 AM.

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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2002803
01/24/17 09:53 AM
01/24/17 09:53 AM
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You don't have to worry about all that if you shoot them in the head.


Whoever is happy will make others happy too. Anne Frank
Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: Geno] #2002965
01/24/17 11:48 AM
01/24/17 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: Geno
You don't have to worry about all that if you shoot them in the head.


Ok.... grin


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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2003298
01/24/17 03:28 PM
01/24/17 03:28 PM
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I used to hunt with a fellow that changed from a 7mag to a 30-378 Weatherby. Said he was tired of the deer running off and having to track them. I told him it wasn't the caliber but bullet placement. First deer he shot with the new gun ran off same as the others. Another behind the shoulder shot. Deer dead but had to track. He finally went high shoulder, problem solved. And he got rid of the $150 a box 30-378.

Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2003307
01/24/17 03:32 PM
01/24/17 03:32 PM
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Harold (CNC) I know your have only been tracking for a couple of years, and in the beginning when came to my house I covered several things about tracking. One was you need to get a Garmin Alpha 100, did a short demo. on one of my pups. showed you my freezer and how I put up deer liver and feet. I even took you on a couple of tracks so you could see how I worked my dogs off lead.

I really appreciate you sharing info. with other trackers, but the one thing I covered was that I don`t feed my dogs deer meat,or let them chew on deer legs. When my pups were young (1 yr old) I would live a small piece of deer liver at the end of the track. I want to let very one know don`t give your dog a deer leg and let him eat everything off the bone...you said in a earlier post that Otis you crack the bone open and eat the insides......dogs can get small pieces of bone in their stomach and die from it...google "don`t give your dogs bones to chew on its dangerous. We spend a lot of money on our dogs at least I do and its hard enough to put one to sleep when it has cancer.

This is my 11th year tracking and I have trained some good dogs and have good dogs now as you are aware. Let`s put out good info. out to the others that want to train their pups...Bones will kill theirs dogs just as a deer will kill with their horns.

Hope you are having a good season....I`ve sent you and Mike both several tracks for one reason or the other.

Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2003906
01/25/17 04:32 AM
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The bones and dogs thing is an interesting argument.

I am surprised there are any canids left in nature since they get bones with every meal.

I've been lucky in that respect I suppose. Mine have been some bone eating individuals.


Whoever is happy will make others happy too. Anne Frank
Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: Geno] #2004369
01/25/17 10:24 AM
01/25/17 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: Geno
The bones and dogs thing is an interesting argument.

I am surprised there are any canids left in nature since they get bones with every meal.

I've been lucky in that respect I suppose. Mine have been some bone eating individuals.


That’s kinda what I was thinking too. I guess it’s just each person’s individual decision.


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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: AJNiette] #2004447
01/25/17 11:39 AM
01/25/17 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: AJNiette
Harold (CNC) I know your have only been tracking for a couple of years, and in the beginning when came to my house I covered several things about tracking. One was you need to get a Garmin Alpha 100, did a short demo. on one of my pups. showed you my freezer and how I put up deer liver and feet. I even took you on a couple of tracks so you could see how I worked my dogs off lead.

I really appreciate you sharing info. with other trackers, but the one thing I covered was that I don`t feed my dogs deer meat,or let them chew on deer legs. When my pups were young (1 yr old) I would live a small piece of deer liver at the end of the track. I want to let very one know don`t give your dog a deer leg and let him eat everything off the bone...you said in a earlier post that Otis you crack the bone open and eat the insides......dogs can get small pieces of bone in their stomach and die from it...google "don`t give your dogs bones to chew on its dangerous. We spend a lot of money on our dogs at least I do and its hard enough to put one to sleep when it has cancer.

This is my 11th year tracking and I have trained some good dogs and have good dogs now as you are aware. Let`s put out good info. out to the others that want to train their pups...Bones will kill theirs dogs just as a deer will kill with their horns.

Hope you are having a good season....I`ve sent you and Mike both several tracks for one reason or the other.


Mabye CNC decided to do things differently. Just because you do things differently doesn't make him wrong.

Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2004471
01/25/17 11:52 AM
01/25/17 11:52 AM
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Went on one track this morning. The hunter had called yesterday about meeting but I never heard back from them and thought maybe they had decided not to search more for the deer. They called back just after daylight this morning and wanted to know if I could meet them.

The deer was shot yesterday morning crossing a small powerline so this was about 22-24 hrs later. It was roughly a 200 yard shot with the deer walking across the powerline angling toward the hunter. The hunter said the deer was just walking but wouldn’t check up even when he whooped. He shot at it walking just before it entered the woodline. He said it just flinched and disappeared. They had found small drops of really dark red blood for about 100-150 yards until it crossed an interior property road and that’s where they lost it.

I figured the deer had just turned and went up the road instead of crossing over and that’s exactly what we found to have happened when we started searching this morning. I’m finding that to be a very common thing for them to do so don’t always just assume that the deer crossed straight over the road. They often turn and run down the road before entering back into the thicket on a different trail….sometimes as much as 100-200 yards down the road.

So we tracked up the road for just a short distance before the deer looped back headed in the direction it had originally come from. It went through this thick arse patch of young natural pine regen that was no more than a few acres I’d say. Otis was only about 15-20 yards ahead of us in the thicket when all hell broke loose. “Reeee!!!! Reeeee!!!....(snort, snort, snort).

A big group of pigs got up and sounded like they were all in the thicket around us. Otis is going ape chit up in front of me and I’m trying to get my pistol drawn before one comes running in on us…..about that time it sounded like he cut a piglet out of the group and took it down through the woods squealin like hell! In the meantime the other pigs are still around us snortin and making pig noises. I toned Otis off of the little pig and called him back to me…..but when I did I called him right back into the group of pigs again and he cut another one out of the group and took off again. The pigs around us are still hollerin and squealing this whole time but not running shocked shocked ....just staying in this few acre thicket with us. This time I popped Otis with the shock collar and we got the hell up out the thicket to regroup…………

To be continued later this evening…………. smile


Last edited by CNC; 01/25/17 11:58 AM.

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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2004495
01/25/17 12:20 PM
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Is "regroup" code for go check drawers. wink That many hogs in a tight space would definitely get me moving.

Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: BigEd] #2004571
01/25/17 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: BigEd
Is "regroup" code for go check drawers. wink That many hogs in a tight space would definitely get me moving.


You dang right. I had my .45 drawn but it really wasn’t making me feel any better about the situation as thick as it was. You could barely see 5 yards in front of you. I needed one of those guns from the movie Predator and just start mowing the woods down! grin


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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2004808
01/25/17 04:19 PM
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The conclusion...........



So after we got out of the pigs I told the hunter that I wanted to take five and then back up and run part of the track again to refocus Otis on the task at hand. We circled back a couple hundred yards and Otis put his nose to the ground and got right back on it again. We re-tracked the same path except this time when we came up to the small thicket I told the hunter that I wanted to avoid that area and loop around it like it was a messed-up search area. You could tell that the deer was headed through that thicket going back to the swamp it came from and we weren’t far from making our way through it when we hit the bedded pigs….. so I figured it we swept the backside of the thicket then we would hit the scent trail coming out into the hardwoods headed to the swamp.

That’s exactly what happened. As we were passing along the backside of the thicket about 100-150 yards past where we had earlier stopped….. Otis picked up on the old track again and eventually a few more small spots of blood. With the track being 24 hrs old, it was pretty easy to know he was back on the right track versus say something like a fresher pig scent trail. The old track required him to track no faster than a walk and keep his nose glued to the ground really digging to smell it……also working checks and looping back from time to time. A hot fresh trail will have a dog’s nose up in the air a lot and may be moving pretty fast. Something to keep in mind for anyone training a puppy.

We took the track on and away from the thicket for another 600 yards or so (about 900-1000 total) straight down the side of a flooded swamp before coming to the big creek and the property line. Otis was out ahead of us 50-75 yards and when we got to him he was searching for a way across the creek. We called it off there instead of trying to contact the neighbors as it didn’t look promising at all. Unless we passed it during the pig fiasco, there was never a spot where it looked like the deer had bedded.

It’s really hard to say where this deer was hit with no more info or evidence to go on. My best guess would be that it was just a flesh wound across the brisket or a leg with the very spotty dark blood and no real mule kick or reaction of a hard hit. No bone or anything like that either. Just very minor drips of blood here and there. I feel pretty confident that he didn’t sink it off into the deer’s body on a “quartering to” shot like that or the deer would have never made it as far as he did. He was shooting a 300 mag.

Well dammit man…..one of y’all blow some green chit out one’s guts and call me. grin We need something to get the bad mojo off of us and break this little run of scratched up deer. It typically works out in the end for most trackers to be roughly a 50/50 split of recoverable and unrecoverable tracks when’s all said and done. It seems like sometimes you may get 2 or 3 recoverable in a row though and then other times 2 or 3 non-recoverable. It’s just about like flipping a coin if you take every call that comes in. Folks hit them about any and every way possible. Otis has done his job well so I can’t fault him at all……it just sure is a lot more fun when we find a dead deer at the end of the trail instead of a road, river, or property line.

Just waiting now for the next call to come in……the next flip of the coin. C’mon cold front!!!!!! smile

Last edited by CNC; 01/25/17 06:00 PM.

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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2005199
01/26/17 04:14 AM
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Too bad. It happens that way sometimes. Should have upped your game and boogied over to where the O-Man had a piglet for you. Twice. Those little ones fit in a smoker whole.

Kind of glad I hunt huge blocks of public property. The whole property line and legal issues with following a wounded deer onto private property thing is all new to me.

Of course, I say that and I'll see one I want behind the house and then it's really on.


Whoever is happy will make others happy too. Anne Frank
Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: Geno] #2005261
01/26/17 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: Geno
Too bad. It happens that way sometimes. Should have upped your game and boogied over to where the O-Man had a piglet for you. Twice. Those little ones fit in a smoker whole.

Kind of glad I hunt huge blocks of public property. The whole property line and legal issues with following a wounded deer onto private property thing is all new to me.

Of course, I say that and I'll see one I want behind the house and then it's really on.


Oh, we thought about it for a second cause there was pigs all around us close that we could have likely gotten a shot on. I asked the hunter if he wanted to shoot one while we had the chance and he said…”Hell yeah!”…..No sooner than he said that though than we both thought better of it since we still thought we had a deer down. If we started capping pigs then I may have never got Otis to refocus on the day old line we we’re following. It’s probably best we left them alone for Otis’s sake anyways. It was good training for him to reinforce to him that we’re not chasing anything else in the woods other than the one wounded deer.

The property line situation has probably never been a big problem for most hunters because the vast majority of the deer we track “by hand” never extend more than a few hundred yards if that. Some do but the vast majority of the deer like we’re tracking just can’t be followed without a dog. It’s pretty easy with a dog to cover 500-1000 yards or more following a deer if he’s just very marginally hit. With someone that’s only hunting 200 acres or 500 acres, etc….you can hit property lines pretty quick. There’s other places that are 3.4, or 5,000 acre chunks of property where you usually have plenty of room and it’s not an issue. Most deer tend to circle back eventually.

Last edited by CNC; 01/26/17 05:12 AM.

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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2005955
01/26/17 02:51 PM
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Call just came in from another aldeer member. Buck was quartering away at 100 yards at about a 45 degree angle. The hunter was shooting a 257 I believe…..I’m not familiar with those guns. The buck immediately hit the ground and spun around on the ground before getting back up on it’s front legs and dragging itself into the woods on its front legs. They’ve found no blood.

The hunter feels good about the hit but the reaction immediately makes me think the shot is high and somewhere around the spine since the deer’s back end was paralyzed or temporarily paralyzed. Hopefully the hit is under the spine and in the body. I guess its possible that it may be high on the deer’s rump. Fingers crossed that this one doesn’t end up being a backslap.

To be continued....... smile

Last edited by CNC; 01/26/17 02:53 PM.

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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: CNC] #2006127
01/26/17 04:51 PM
01/26/17 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: Geno
Too bad. It happens that way sometimes. Should have upped your game and boogied over to where the O-Man had a piglet for you. Twice. Those little ones fit in a smoker whole.

Kind of glad I hunt huge blocks of public property. The whole property line and legal issues with following a wounded deer onto private property thing is all new to me.

Of course, I say that and I'll see one I want behind the house and then it's really on.


Oh, we thought about it for a second cause there was pigs all around us close that we could have likely gotten a shot on. I asked the hunter if he wanted to shoot one while we had the chance and he said…”Hell yeah!”…..No sooner than he said that though than we both thought better of it since we still thought we had a deer down. If we started capping pigs then I may have never got Otis to refocus on the day old line we we’re following. It’s probably best we left them alone for Otis’s sake anyways. It was good training for him to reinforce to him that we’re not chasing anything else in the woods other than the one wounded deer.

The property line situation has probably never been a big problem for most hunters because the vast majority of the deer we track “by hand” never extend more than a few hundred yards if that. Some do but the vast majority of the deer like we’re tracking just can’t be followed without a dog. It’s pretty easy with a dog to cover 500-1000 yards or more following a deer if he’s just very marginally hit. With someone that’s only hunting 200 acres or 500 acres, etc….you can hit property lines pretty quick. There’s other places that are 3.4, or 5,000 acre chunks of property where you usually have plenty of room and it’s not an issue. Most deer tend to circle back eventually.

I tracked one about a 1,000 yds on a 5,000 acre club 10 years ago. I hit him in the leg and tracked him across three property lines but he was only about 400 yds from our line. Never found that deer but by 6 month old lab took me the whole way. Wish I had kept her going.


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Re: The Tales of Otis and Shelby Lou [Re: Turkey_neck] #2006193
01/26/17 05:33 PM
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Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,535
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted By: Turkey_neck
I tracked one about a 1,000 yds on a 5,000 acre club 10 years ago. I hit him in the leg and tracked him across three property lines but he was only about 400 yds from our line. Never found that deer but by 6 month old lab took me the whole way. Wish I had kept her going.


Yeah, leg hits can go a long ways. You’re likely gonna need plenty of room to be able to deal with one of those.


The Corn Crash!!!
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