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The Ethics of Game Cameras #2366091
01/10/18 09:26 AM
01/10/18 09:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline OP
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poorcountrypreacher  Offline OP
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Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
I must be bored today to start this, but it's a gloomy day outside and I don't have an indoor project going, so I will ask about something I've been thinking about.

Back when I was really interested in deer hunting, I did a lot of scouting in the weeks between the first week of the season and the rut. I would obviously look for scrapes and rubs, but also just looked for a big track. Some of the most enjoyable hunts I've ever had involved finding sign from a big buck, figuring out the best place to hunt him, and then setting up on him and actually killing him. Usually, I had no idea what his rack was like until I killed him, and it really didn't make a whole lot of difference. The challenge was to find a deer to hunt and then killing him; whether he turned out to be a 6 point or a 10 point had nothing to do with the enjoyment of the hunt. And most of the time the deer won and I never even saw him.

I have friends now who belong to big clubs and they don't hunt this way. They run a line of cameras until they find a deer that has the type of antlers that they want and then hunt that deer. I have one friend that has killed several really nice bucks by hunting this way.

I will probably make some folks mad just by bringing up the subject, but I really don't wanna criticize anyone at all. It's legal to hunt this way and I would do it too if I really wanted to kill a deer. Still, I can't help but feel like this method of hunting is taking something away from the sport. If this is the way people grow up hunting, they will likely never develop the ability to read sign. It also seems somewhat unfair to the deer to use technology to this level to hunt him. I'm not saying it should be illegal, just wondering if I'm the only person on here who has ever thought about this? I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.

I also think hunting with cameras causes hunters to put too much emphasis on antlers. If you hunt the old way, it becomes more about the hunt and the size of his antlers doesn't make as much difference to the hunter. When all the emphasis is on finding the perfect rack, and you feel bad about shooting a mature buck that has less than perfect antlers, I think that is bad for the sport. I think it could lead to some giving up deer hunting because they can't kill a buck like they see on television.

There is no putting this toothpaste back into the tube, but I think game cameras have done more bad than good for deer hunting. Am I the only believes this?


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366106
01/10/18 09:37 AM
01/10/18 09:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
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Remington270 Online content
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Online Content
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I have thought about it too, and I see what you mean. But for me, the game cameras are half the fun.

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366116
01/10/18 09:41 AM
01/10/18 09:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
I still scout, find sign, and hunt the old way.
But my patience has grown thin with age. I like to see what they look like, too. I just don't share the pictures with anyone.
Show one person the pictures and by tomorrow you'll have 20 cousins, nephews and uncle Harry's preacher asking to hunt.

Last edited by Out back; 01/10/18 09:46 AM.

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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366122
01/10/18 09:45 AM
01/10/18 09:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 9,541
Montgomery, AL
jbc Offline
14 point
jbc  Offline
14 point
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Posts: 9,541
Montgomery, AL
not to mention it has probably saved a bunch of "oops" kills.

if you have 50+ pics of a deer and have determined that he is young and you aren't going to shoot him this year, it prevents having to make a quick decision on the fly.

(for places that try to let bucks reach maturity)

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366132
01/10/18 09:52 AM
01/10/18 09:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
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Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
I can see how folks get hooked on it. We run LOTS of cameras and we obviously look at antlers but I'm much more interested in the age of a deer.

We use them to monitor herd/age structure and look for health indicators. Cameras are a great tool but they have definitely changed how the masses hunt.

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366139
01/10/18 09:55 AM
01/10/18 09:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
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Remington270 Online content
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
I think it could lead to some giving up deer hunting because they can't kill a buck like they see on television.


For me, it's just the opposite. It keeps me hunting longer. If I know there's a mature shooter or two on the place, that'll keep me warm and comfortable a little longer on that 20 degree morning.

When I first started hunting as a teenager, I had legitimate doubts as to whether a deer existed on our place.

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: Remington270] #2366141
01/10/18 09:56 AM
01/10/18 09:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 9,541
Montgomery, AL
jbc Offline
14 point
jbc  Offline
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Montgomery, AL
Originally Posted By: Remington270


When I first started hunting as a teenager, I had legitimate doubts as to whether a deer existed on our place.


now you know there aren't?

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366151
01/10/18 10:00 AM
01/10/18 10:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,609
Alabama
R
Rmart30 Offline
10 point
Rmart30  Offline
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Posts: 4,609
Alabama
To me as someone who doesnt have a itchy trigger finger I enjoy running cameras almost as much as I do hunting.
Between me and my hunting buddy we will run 12-20 cameras.
We do not run in and out checking cams all the time. I think that hurts or skunks up a lot of places. On some stands I may can see my camera from where im sitting hunting but I will not step foot out there to swap cards until the right time. Usually right before or during a big rain to wash scent away.
Some cams may stay out from opening of gun season, until season is over. One I had last yr in a remote area I did not go collect until mid marchish. It had 9800 pictures and the best buck on cam from the property got his picture taken on March 2nd. Never would have known he wa even around without that.
It helps to evaluate what kind, and how many deer are using each spot. Its amazing when you run multiple cams on a piece of property how you learn that some nice looking spots are just that. Nice looking spots but with little or no deer activity.
Some places Ive learned its usually all doe and rarely ever see a buck. Others are almost all bucks and no does. You learn which bucks roam all the property, and which ones you only get on one spot. I learn some fields get almost zero daylight activity while others its a mix.
Ive seen areas torn slap up in rubs and scrapes thinking it was a monster buck using it, but when cam finally ckd it end up to be just a fired up little 125# 4 pt.

Use them as learning tools and they are productive IMO.


Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching - even when doing the wrong thing is legal. Aldo Leopold .. (except when it comes to trailer tags)
Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366156
01/10/18 10:01 AM
01/10/18 10:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,062
B
blade Online content
12 point
blade  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,062
I agree Preacher. I said it in another thread the other day. The trend seems to be more about growing and harvesting than hunting. Which is fine if that's what you like to do, but I grew up hunting deer in their native environment. No food plots, supplemental feed, etc. There was a little farmland of course. I miss finding a deer that's not being influenced by external factors so severely and hunting him.

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366159
01/10/18 10:04 AM
01/10/18 10:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,313
Kennedy, al
G
globe Online content
Booner
globe  Online Content
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Kennedy, al
Nowadays checking my cameras are a form of hunting to me and I really enjoy it. It's exciting to me, especially if I put a camera over a scrape. I don't hunt based on them though. I had pics of a huge 8 that I didn't hunt one time. Didn't fit into my schedule and hunting with the kids.


Everything woke turns to shucks
Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366206
01/10/18 10:34 AM
01/10/18 10:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 663
Ms
FX4 Offline
4 point
FX4  Offline
4 point
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 663
Ms
Yeah we shouldn't use technology against em. We should all hunt in a loin cloth with a sling shot. grin Seriously, I hunted the same way when I was younger.(over 50 crowd) Now I use cameras and actually enjoy it as much as hunting. I do know I let a lot more bucks reach maturity now than I did then especially knowing there are bigger bucks to hunt. Back then I would kill the first rack buck to walk by, and the second, and the third until I limited out. Now I average a buck every 2-3 years and sometimes hunt the same buck several years. I don't understand why you think its an ethical issue but to each his own. As long as your hunting legally and not encroaching on my rights, have at it.



Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366208
01/10/18 10:37 AM
01/10/18 10:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,496
Northport
B
Bamarich2 Offline
8 point
Bamarich2  Offline
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Northport
Like with anything else, people will abuse the use of game cameras and utilize them in poor ways. However, people do that with anything that is designed to improve things (i.e. think about how people use cars today). Here are the benefits to game cameras that I have personally witnessed.

* It gets me more acquainted with the deer herd I'm hunting. Not only do I understand more about the bucks I'm hunting, but I also keep up with the does. This helps me do a better job of knowing how to manage the herd and predators (kill more/less does, start going after coyotes more, etc.). It also helps me keep up with the timing of the rut.
* It keeps me from shooting borderline bucks. I primarily "woods hunt", so when I have chances at big deer it usually happens in 5-10 second increments. With few moments to actually judge a deer, it helps if you've seen that deer prior to the encounter. When I hunt in an area, I usually will review pics from that area to remember what I'll shoot and what I'll pass - and it's greatly helped me.
* It helps me sit longer. The older I get, the more impatient I get on stand. Knowing a good deer is in an area keeps me in a stand longer - sat until 10:30 in a stand Saturday morning, something I'd NEVER have done in earlier years.
* It provides a means of bonding with other hunters. Some of my favorite interactions w/ folks I hunt with are conversations about trail cam pics. I sometimes get excited about a pic they share with me... and vice-versa. We also keep up with one another and tend to share more information with each other (which helps all of us be more successful and have enjoying hunts).
* It helps me understand if a leased property is worth keeping. With the amount of $$$ a person has to pay to lease property today, the LAST thing we want is to be pouring $$$ in a piece of property that doesn't have deer/turkey on it - or has a habituation problem like neighborhood dogs roaming the place. It also helps with detecting trespassers as well.
* It allows me to track the growth of bucks. I hunted an 8-point this year that ended up being broken up a week ago. I have pics of that particular buck for three years now - and the growth between years has been enjoyable to watch. This idea also helps me with the preceding point (is the place worth the $$$).
* It gets me involved in hunting year-round. In the past, when deer season was over, I'd abandon that place until turkey season... and then do the same until fall planting. Now, I am on the properties I hunt more often and I learn more - it's that simple.

I think a lot of the people who are against game cameras are guys who get to hunt a lot - retired people, those who have a lot of off time, etc. A lot of the things I mentioned up top here CAN be done IF you stay in the woods a lot. The issue for me is that I can't get into the woods that often because of work, family, etc. Again, I'm sure people use them in ways that are negative, but what innovation isn't going to see the same thing?

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366212
01/10/18 10:42 AM
01/10/18 10:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,377
Helena
3
3toe Offline
Talking Turkey
3toe  Offline
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Helena
I use my cameras to see how many gobblers are on the place. Who cares about deer.

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: jbc] #2366217
01/10/18 10:45 AM
01/10/18 10:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
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Remington270 Online content
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: jbc
Originally Posted By: Remington270


When I first started hunting as a teenager, I had legitimate doubts as to whether a deer existed on our place.


now you know there aren't?


Pretty much...

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366235
01/10/18 11:00 AM
01/10/18 11:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,451
Coosa County
T
Turkey Offline
10 point
Turkey  Offline
10 point
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Posts: 3,451
Coosa County
I use a lot of cameras and just enjoy seeing what is around. But you made one point I totally agree with: Woodsmanship and the ability to read sign is largely a thing of the past.

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: 3toe] #2366240
01/10/18 11:02 AM
01/10/18 11:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 663
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FX4 Offline
4 point
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Ms
Originally Posted By: 3toe
I use my cameras to see how many gobblers are on the place. Who cares about deer.


I wish somebody would come shoot all these dang gobbles on my place. They eatin up all my corn. grin



Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: Remington270] #2366241
01/10/18 11:03 AM
01/10/18 11:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 7,946
Alabama
Shaneomac2 Offline
14 point
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Alabama
Originally Posted By: Remington270
I have thought about it too, and I see what you mean. But for me, the game cameras are half the fun.


agreed. And he is right its all about the antlers, that is the only reason i will kill a buck. If i want meat i will kill a doe. But with a buck you get two for one.lol.As long as its in the rules i could care less how anyone kills an animal.

Last edited by Shaneomac2; 01/10/18 11:09 AM.

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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366245
01/10/18 11:06 AM
01/10/18 11:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
ikillbux Offline
ishootatbux
ikillbux  Offline
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Anniston, AL
Thought worthy. Hadn't ever considered that, but I don't feel any ethical quams about it. I've often thought that a 500 yard rifle is the same way, I think that's a lot more of an unfair advantage than a camera. I don't personally care for crossbows for similar reasons. I don't know, the deer still have the advantage...I can know he's there, be able to shoot him at 500 yards, yet never see the rascal all season long!!! mad

But I'm also strictly a sport, trophy hunter (I don't care anything about eating the meat, and only shoot mounter bucks). My point is even with the cameras, long range firearms, etc, I still often get none, or one or two shot opportunities an entire season. They got all the advantage! grin

Last edited by ikillbux; 01/10/18 11:08 AM.

We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366260
01/10/18 11:19 AM
01/10/18 11:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 21,977
blount county alabama
jwalker77 Online confused
Pumpkin
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Pumpkin
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blount county alabama
I seldomly use a camera as a tool to hunt a deer. But i do keep cameras out most of the year. Interestingly enough, i take mine down when they shed their velvet. I mostly just like watching them grow and inventorying what is in the area. I watch turkeys too. I dont leave them up during deer season because i check them too much. I never had anybody teach me anything about reading sign or anything about deer hunting, for that matter. Daddy hunted coons,squirrels,and rabbits but he didnt care anything about deer hunting. Most of my learning was trial and error, mostly error. I hunted 6yrs before i ever took a shot at a deer.

Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2366263
01/10/18 11:21 AM
01/10/18 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,940
Right behind you
Mbrock Online content
Fancy
Mbrock  Online Content
Fancy
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Right behind you
I love cameras, but I can’t say they’ve increased my success on killing mature bucks one bit. I killed just as many without a camera as I have with them. I like to see inventory, and develop a hit list of shooters. That way I know what to expect and I think it increases the likelihood of shooting the right deer(for those interested in shooting age over antlers). Usually, if I shoot a deer I wouldn’t have otherwise it’s on a place I have no cameras or a deer I have had no pics of. That doesn’t take away from the hunt or the excitement, but for me, I’d rather shoot a mature 105” deer than a 3 year old 125”. If I recognize the deer immediately because of pictures I’ve studied, and if I have to make a split second decision, the pictures increase the odds of making the right choice.

I don’t think they take away from finding sign and learning woodsmanship. I still hunt deer sign, travel routes, food sources just like I always have. Finding good sign is a sure bet I’ll put a camera there. That takes out the guesswork of what the deer looks like. If I find sign, place a camera, and discover it’s more than likely a 115” three year old putting it there then I move on. If I find that’s its a 4+ year old deer I’ll hunt. I don’t like wasting time in the woods on deer I’m not going to kill.

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