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Breed ethics?
#2332226
12/15/17 06:05 AM
12/15/17 06:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761 Marshall County
ALMODUX
OP
10 point
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OP
10 point
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
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Curious why some consider it okay/ethical to push silver labs as real, authentic, true to breed and standard, while anyone selling any other imitation item in the world, would get hammered for fake advertising? Its like saying you have a purple factory finished leupold, when leupold has never made one.....then folks getting in line and paying twice the cost than for a regular/real leupold, because purple is cool, and someone besides leupold swore to them it was really a leupold. Im not slandering the dogs, but the ethics of their representation vs the breeds. If you want to hybridize your own strains for certain traits, thats fine. If you want to own those, thats fine. I just dont think you get to ethically call them original , just because it allows a higher price. Id love to cross AWS and Lab lines, to have another retriever breed....but I couldnt ethically call the offerings wavy coat labradors and register as chocolate labs, no matter how many rebreedings back to labs I did just to COVER UP where the wavy coat came from. There exists a flat coated retriever. You could start a gray retriever breed. Look at labradoodles and golden doodles for example. I love most ANY good natured dog. I just question some folks who get this stuff started, not those who get caught up in it.
JMO.
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Re: Breed ethics?
[Re: ALMODUX]
#2332326
12/15/17 07:27 AM
12/15/17 07:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,504 Montgomery
bamaeyedoc
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,504
Montgomery
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I don't know much about silver labs or so called "red" labs. But along the same lines of keeping a bad gene out of the pool, I had a buddy 25 years ago who had a Rhodesian Ridgeback dog at one time. Beautiful dog and he would breed her with another stud and have the prettiest pups. But he wouldn't sell a pup if it was not perfect. He was a purist and although I didn't agree with it, if a pup was born without the ridge down the back, he dispatched it with a .22. Fortunately, that was a rare. But it did keep the gene pool from being diluted with "inferior" genetics.
Dr. B
AKA: “Dr. B” Aldeer #121 8-3-2000 Proud alum of AUM, UAB, and UA Member of Team 10 Point 2023-2024 ALdeer Deer Contest Winners
Glennis Jerome "Jerry" Harris 1938-2017 UGA Class of 1960 BS/MS Forestry LTJG, USNR
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Re: Breed ethics?
[Re: ALMODUX]
#2332399
12/15/17 08:20 AM
12/15/17 08:20 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,091 alabama
BhamFred
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,091
alabama
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anybody who would shoot a puppy with a .22 because it didn't meet some standard is headed to hell.
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Re: Breed ethics?
[Re: BhamFred]
#2332448
12/15/17 08:45 AM
12/15/17 08:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,504 Montgomery
bamaeyedoc
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,504
Montgomery
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anybody who would shoot a puppy with a .22 because it didn't meet some standard is headed to hell. Yeah I can agree. Fortunately, he turned his life around 180 degrees and definitely not the same person he was back then. Dr. B
Last edited by bamaeyedoc; 12/15/17 08:46 AM.
AKA: “Dr. B” Aldeer #121 8-3-2000 Proud alum of AUM, UAB, and UA Member of Team 10 Point 2023-2024 ALdeer Deer Contest Winners
Glennis Jerome "Jerry" Harris 1938-2017 UGA Class of 1960 BS/MS Forestry LTJG, USNR
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Re: Breed ethics?
[Re: ALMODUX]
#2333000
12/15/17 04:35 PM
12/15/17 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761 Marshall County
ALMODUX
OP
10 point
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OP
10 point
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
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AFAIK, no lab ever had a d gene turned on/doubled, until Culo kennels dogs, which also had Weimaraners, I thought. Also fox red labs are a shade of yellow, and always have been, as a yellow select just turns on two more genes, which control the darkness between almost white, to full on red. Theres no dilute in labs, afaik either. That also seems to be an invention to explain the genetic cross. http://www.thelabradorclub.com/subpages/show_contents.php?page=silver+labradors
Last edited by ALMODUX; 12/15/17 04:40 PM.
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Re: Breed ethics?
[Re: ALMODUX]
#2333289
12/16/17 03:55 AM
12/16/17 03:55 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761 Marshall County
ALMODUX
OP
10 point
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OP
10 point
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
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LOL I dont think youre getting the point. There are rules/guidelines for a reason within ANY breed, otherwise they arent a breed. It was ONLY when establishing a breed, that crossing is part of creation. Nobody is being snobbish about whatever a dog might be. Some just dont see it as ethical (or good for the breed) for some to knowingly mislead others, to make $. If thats okay with you, youre probably okay with buying that secretly rebuilt truck, because its cheaper and got factory camo paint.
Last edited by ALMODUX; 12/16/17 03:55 AM.
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Re: Breed ethics?
[Re: ALMODUX]
#2333294
12/16/17 04:02 AM
12/16/17 04:02 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761 Marshall County
ALMODUX
OP
10 point
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OP
10 point
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
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....and, my bigger peeve/issue? Dogs bred specifically for looks....color, size, leg length, etc.....that crap is for non-working, non-sporting dogs. If you arent breeding for mental and physical ABILITIES above appearance, then its likely a mistake. If they happen to look good, too?....bonus.
Last edited by ALMODUX; 12/16/17 04:53 AM.
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Re: Breed ethics?
[Re: Pwyse]
#2340585
12/21/17 07:01 PM
12/21/17 07:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761 Marshall County
ALMODUX
OP
10 point
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OP
10 point
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
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I think youre confusing breed vs breed standard vs ethics. Im not talking about some AKC show stature at all. Im talking about a Labrador retriever vs a NOT a Labrador retriever and/or breeding OUTSIDE what a breed is, intentionally, and still saying its the same breed. No different (again) than crossing in a poodle with a beagle, then breeding back to beagles, then becoming the only kennel to sell AKC curly coated beagles. Even if you suddenly had one curly coated beagle in your pure bred beagle litter, that doesnt mean theres some dilute curly gene in beagles that one person just happened upon after more than a hundred years. If you then breed for those anamolies, regardless of cause, for marketing, you do a disservice to both dogs and buyers....not to mention the breed. You want a lab thats silver, buy one. Just dont think its a natural, lab thing. A good dog is a good dog, and it doesnt care what you call it. I dont either, until it comes time to vouch for something on a paper that involves $ and ethics and disclosure. If I found I had a genetic Anatoly specific to a different breed in dogs I was selling, Id have to disclose and price accordingly. The opposite Dems to be the case with some stuff these days. Its not the fault of your average breeder or owner, but those that started it to begin with.
Im not downing anyones choice of dog, preferences, or what they do. Im just saying theres some truth that seems to be being avoided, for whatever reason. Just my opinions, and there worth what you paid. LOL
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Re: Breed ethics?
[Re: ALMODUX]
#2340609
12/21/17 09:22 PM
12/21/17 09:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,174 Central Al
twaldrop4
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,174
Central Al
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basically only true lab is a lab that run hunt test and is black?
Last edited by twaldrop4; 12/22/17 03:29 AM.
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Re: Breed ethics?
[Re: ALMODUX]
#2340800
12/22/17 04:22 AM
12/22/17 04:22 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761 Marshall County
ALMODUX
OP
10 point
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OP
10 point
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
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Basically, some folks cant read or just wanna be drama queens.
I dont care what anyone does with a lab and Im no huge fan of everything involved in the (not really) hunt tests. You can run a hunt test with any breed you like, and labs arent colored like wiemeraners. If youre gonna pay good $ for a well bred lab, I dont care what color the lab is, as long as its a lab and not something not pure bred, but youre just paying for the color. I happen to love red factoring in yellow labs, but retrieving and temperament and can I sell some pups off a good, pure line, are more important than color.
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