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Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2293052
11/14/17 01:53 PM
11/14/17 01:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,880
Behind your shadow
R
Reloader79 Offline
Bitch Peas, I'm a Kitty Whisperer
Reloader79  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,880
Behind your shadow
Never had an issue with nosler ballistic tips.


If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Bluetick serpentines around green fields and rock spit a lease
Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2293079
11/14/17 02:11 PM
11/14/17 02:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,280
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
12 point
joshm28  Offline
12 point
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,280
Jasper, AL
Here's a good rule of thumb

Muzzle Velocity above 3300fps = Mono Bullets

Muzzle Velocity between 3000-3299fps = Bonded Bullets

Muzzle Velocity below 3000fps = any big game bullet


Of course this is MY rule of thumb and based on MY research and real world testing. But...there is a lot of truth to the above. The faster the bullet the more violent the entry. At 3300+ the Ballistic Tips have a higher probability of coming apart too quickly. At .308 speeds, or equivalent they can be absolutely devastating. Choose your bullets based on speeds in which you are pushing them.

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2293124
11/14/17 02:31 PM
11/14/17 02:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,760
Tuscaloosa Co.
N
N2TRKYS Offline
Booner
N2TRKYS  Offline
Booner
N
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,760
Tuscaloosa Co.
I would quit rifle hunting if that's all I could shoot. Terrible bullet in a 25-06.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2293181
11/14/17 03:04 PM
11/14/17 03:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,416
south alabama
countryjwh Offline
10 point
countryjwh  Offline
10 point
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,416
south alabama
Shot them in my short mag. Shot and killed one deer at 20 yards. Perfect shot and no blood. Found the buck about 75 yards just walking down a trail I thought he ran down. There was no devastating exit hole but there was an exit hole. Looked jus like the entry hole. I shoot partitions now. Ainít bet looked back.


Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

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Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2293668
11/15/17 02:32 AM
11/15/17 02:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 970
Spanish Fort
TurkeyJoe Offline
6 point
TurkeyJoe  Offline
6 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 970
Spanish Fort
Stopped using them 15 or so years ago because of the same issue y'all have already discussed. Shot a nice buck in the shoulder about 125 yds. Bullet exploded inside deer on opposite shoulder. Only had a 27 caliber entry wound and no blood. Deer ran about 200 yds in a thicket. Just happened to walk up on him. Been buying the green and yellow box ever since, no more problems. (The silvertips did group better than any other bulletproof out of that gun)


Micah 6:8
Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: joshm28] #2293779
11/15/17 04:04 AM
11/15/17 04:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,682
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
14 point
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
14 point
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,682
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted By: joshm28
Here's a good rule of thumb

Muzzle Velocity above 3300fps = Mono Bullets

Muzzle Velocity between 3000-3299fps = Bonded Bullets

Muzzle Velocity below 3000fps = any big game bullet


Of course this is MY rule of thumb and based on MY research and real world testing. But...there is a lot of truth to the above. The faster the bullet the more violent the entry. At 3300+ the Ballistic Tips have a higher probability of coming apart too quickly. At .308 speeds, or equivalent they can be absolutely devastating. Choose your bullets based on speeds in which you are pushing them.


I agree completely with your conclusions, though all of my experience with bullets faster than 2920 is based on what other people were using. I don't own any rifles faster than a .308 or 30/06. I have never hunted game bigger than deer and I don't hunt where I can see over 400 yards, so I have no use for anything bigger. My uncle had his 300 Magnum for a caribou hunt, and I think he developed a flinch from shooting the thing and has never been a good shot since.

The first deer I shot with a NBT was sometime in the early 90s. I saw a buck walking across a cutover at 180 yards and had to take a quick shot before he got across. He went out of sight at the shot and I didn't know if I had even hit him until I got there. I caught him high in the shoulder and had a fist sized entry with a small exit. I wish I had made a pic; it was the most devastating wound I've ever seen from any gun. A deer has no chance of surviving a hit like that.

So I then loaded some 120g NBT to shoot out of my 7x30 Contender at 2400 fps. I killed several deer with it, and then lost one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen on our place. He was directly facing me when I shot him, and I tracked blood the rest of the day and never recovered him. I switched to a 130g bonded bullet after that and never lost another one. If I'd been using that to start with I have no doubt the deer would have dropped on the spot.

An NBT is a great deer bullet in 30 caliber below 3000, but it's a bad choice in dinky calibers or at higher speeds.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2293995
11/15/17 06:55 AM
11/15/17 06:55 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,334
NW Alabama
R
R_H_Clark Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R_H_Clark  Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,334
NW Alabama
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: joshm28
Here's a good rule of thumb

Muzzle Velocity above 3300fps = Mono Bullets

Muzzle Velocity between 3000-3299fps = Bonded Bullets

Muzzle Velocity below 3000fps = any big game bullet


Of course this is MY rule of thumb and based on MY research and real world testing. But...there is a lot of truth to the above. The faster the bullet the more violent the entry. At 3300+ the Ballistic Tips have a higher probability of coming apart too quickly. At .308 speeds, or equivalent they can be absolutely devastating. Choose your bullets based on speeds in which you are pushing them.


I agree completely with your conclusions, though all of my experience with bullets faster than 2920 is based on what other people were using. I don't own any rifles faster than a .308 or 30/06. I have never hunted game bigger than deer and I don't hunt where I can see over 400 yards, so I have no use for anything bigger. My uncle had his 300 Magnum for a caribou hunt, and I think he developed a flinch from shooting the thing and has never been a good shot since.

The first deer I shot with a NBT was sometime in the early 90s. I saw a buck walking across a cutover at 180 yards and had to take a quick shot before he got across. He went out of sight at the shot and I didn't know if I had even hit him until I got there. I caught him high in the shoulder and had a fist sized entry with a small exit. I wish I had made a pic; it was the most devastating wound I've ever seen from any gun. A deer has no chance of surviving a hit like that.

So I then loaded some 120g NBT to shoot out of my 7x30 Contender at 2400 fps. I killed several deer with it, and then lost one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen on our place. He was directly facing me when I shot him, and I tracked blood the rest of the day and never recovered him. I switched to a 130g bonded bullet after that and never lost another one. If I'd been using that to start with I have no doubt the deer would have dropped on the spot.

An NBT is a great deer bullet in 30 caliber below 3000, but it's a bad choice in dinky calibers or at higher speeds.


The deer you lost wasn't because you shot a BT. You likely got off center and just clipped part of a lung or maybe just got shoulder. Yes,a better penetrating bonded or mono bullet might have helped if you were at an angle to reach other vitals after more penetration. That BT however acted just like about any cup and core bullet would have with that shot. A core lokt or inter lock may have done the exact same.

It also depends on which one you are shooting. A 120 grain 7mm Nosler BT is a very tough bullet. It was toughened to knock over silhouette targets for those guys when they complained about it.

In general however I do agree with the speed assessment.

Last edited by R_H_Clark; 11/15/17 06:58 AM.
Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2294067
11/15/17 07:55 AM
11/15/17 07:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 303
Wetumpka, AL
BigUncleLeroy Offline
4 point
BigUncleLeroy  Offline
4 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 303
Wetumpka, AL
I miss the old original silvertips! Left exit holes like soft balls!

Last edited by BigUncleLeroy; 11/15/17 07:55 AM.
Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: BigUncleLeroy] #2294259
11/15/17 10:04 AM
11/15/17 10:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,636
DAP H KNEE
S
Stob Offline
14 point
Stob  Offline
14 point
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,636
DAP H KNEE
Originally Posted By: BigUncleLeroy
I miss the old original silvertips! Left exit holes like soft balls!


Me too!!!
I refuse to use a Ballistic Tip.
Well, maybe an Accubond.

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: R_H_Clark] #2294348
11/15/17 11:27 AM
11/15/17 11:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,682
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
14 point
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
14 point
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,682
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: joshm28
Here's a good rule of thumb

Muzzle Velocity above 3300fps = Mono Bullets

Muzzle Velocity between 3000-3299fps = Bonded Bullets

Muzzle Velocity below 3000fps = any big game bullet


Of course this is MY rule of thumb and based on MY research and real world testing. But...there is a lot of truth to the above. The faster the bullet the more violent the entry. At 3300+ the Ballistic Tips have a higher probability of coming apart too quickly. At .308 speeds, or equivalent they can be absolutely devastating. Choose your bullets based on speeds in which you are pushing them.


I agree completely with your conclusions, though all of my experience with bullets faster than 2920 is based on what other people were using. I don't own any rifles faster than a .308 or 30/06. I have never hunted game bigger than deer and I don't hunt where I can see over 400 yards, so I have no use for anything bigger. My uncle had his 300 Magnum for a caribou hunt, and I think he developed a flinch from shooting the thing and has never been a good shot since.

The first deer I shot with a NBT was sometime in the early 90s. I saw a buck walking across a cutover at 180 yards and had to take a quick shot before he got across. He went out of sight at the shot and I didn't know if I had even hit him until I got there. I caught him high in the shoulder and had a fist sized entry with a small exit. I wish I had made a pic; it was the most devastating wound I've ever seen from any gun. A deer has no chance of surviving a hit like that.

So I then loaded some 120g NBT to shoot out of my 7x30 Contender at 2400 fps. I killed several deer with it, and then lost one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen on our place. He was directly facing me when I shot him, and I tracked blood the rest of the day and never recovered him. I switched to a 130g bonded bullet after that and never lost another one. If I'd been using that to start with I have no doubt the deer would have dropped on the spot.

An NBT is a great deer bullet in 30 caliber below 3000, but it's a bad choice in dinky calibers or at higher speeds.


The deer you lost wasn't because you shot a BT. You likely got off center and just clipped part of a lung or maybe just got shoulder. Yes,a better penetrating bonded or mono bullet might have helped if you were at an angle to reach other vitals after more penetration. That BT however acted just like about any cup and core bullet would have with that shot. A core lokt or inter lock may have done the exact same.

It also depends on which one you are shooting. A 120 grain 7mm Nosler BT is a very tough bullet. It was toughened to knock over silhouette targets for those guys when they complained about it.

In general however I do agree with the speed assessment.


You may be right, but keep in mind this was early 90s and the NBT back then supposedly fragmented worse than they do now. I was on a Contender forum back then and a lot of other hunters had bad experiences with that 120g bullet. The buck was chasing a doe, and the first thing I noticed was the size of his nose. I've never seen a deer that looked like him before or since. He was for sure over 200 lbs and going by body shape he was 7 or 8 and one tough hombre. It was a 75 degree morning the day after Thanksgiving and I was just hunting a doe. I heard him grunting as soon as I got in the stand and immediately wished I had brought the .308.

He grunted and chased her in the thicket for an hour or so, and finally she came out and made a circle by me. I had a rest, but I needed him stopped to try the shot. He stopped at 40 yards facing directly at me, and I put the cross hairs on the center of his chest and shot. His knees buckled, but it didn't even knock him down. Then he ran off hard and came right by me; had thick antlers about 20" wide but looked like just 6 points.

It is certainly possible that I was off center with the shot and only got one lung, but also very possible that tough rib cage deflected the bullet to one side, or even slowed penetration enough that it didn't get a vital at all. I sat in the tree for an hour, confident he would be dead within 100 yds. There wasn't a drop of blood or any sign of a hit. Obviously wasn't an exit, but any bullet would not likely have exited from that angle.

I spent an hour looking through a thicket and finally found blood a quarter mile away where he crossed a road. He had to have been bleeding from the entry, and there wasn't a whole lot. When I found that, I went back to camp and waited a couple of hours. I would have waited longer, and should have, but it was so hot I figured he would spoil if I didn't get him soon. I had other hunters coming that afternoon, but I was still alone at that point.

So I went back and picked up the trail where he crossed the road. Deer had been shot for 4 hours by then. I followed the trail about 200 yds and jumped him. I should have backed away again, but I checked out the bed to see how much blood was there, and it wasn't much. I felt sure at that point the bullet was in his chest cavity and hadn't just blown up on a shoulder. I walked a few yards to where he crossed a ditch to see if there was blood there and jumped him again. He had only gone about 100 yds. I backed off then and waited several hours before going back. I found one more drop of blood and never saw another sign of him. I looked for him until dark and then most of the next day. It was the worst deer hunting story of my life.

I can never know for sure exactly what happened, but I always thought the bullet got inside him and fragmented so much that it wasn't able to kill him. Whatever it was, I still get a sick feeling thinking about that deer. He would have been a great deer to take with a handgun. As I said, I switched to the bonded core bullet after that and never lost another deer with the gun. I will forever believe I would have killed that deer if I'd been using the bonded bullet that morning. I could be wrong.

Several years later I shot a 185 lb buck with the .308 and a BT from that same angle. It completely destroyed everything in his chest and it was like a mass of jello when I field dressed him. Not all NBT bullets are the same.

Last edited by poorcountrypreacher; 11/15/17 11:36 AM.

All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2294671
11/15/17 03:51 PM
11/15/17 03:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,280
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
12 point
joshm28  Offline
12 point
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,280
Jasper, AL
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: joshm28
Here's a good rule of thumb

Muzzle Velocity above 3300fps = Mono Bullets

Muzzle Velocity between 3000-3299fps = Bonded Bullets

Muzzle Velocity below 3000fps = any big game bullet


Of course this is MY rule of thumb and based on MY research and real world testing. But...there is a lot of truth to the above. The faster the bullet the more violent the entry. At 3300+ the Ballistic Tips have a higher probability of coming apart too quickly. At .308 speeds, or equivalent they can be absolutely devastating. Choose your bullets based on speeds in which you are pushing them.


I agree completely with your conclusions, though all of my experience with bullets faster than 2920 is based on what other people were using. I don't own any rifles faster than a .308 or 30/06. I have never hunted game bigger than deer and I don't hunt where I can see over 400 yards, so I have no use for anything bigger. My uncle had his 300 Magnum for a caribou hunt, and I think he developed a flinch from shooting the thing and has never been a good shot since.

The first deer I shot with a NBT was sometime in the early 90s. I saw a buck walking across a cutover at 180 yards and had to take a quick shot before he got across. He went out of sight at the shot and I didn't know if I had even hit him until I got there. I caught him high in the shoulder and had a fist sized entry with a small exit. I wish I had made a pic; it was the most devastating wound I've ever seen from any gun. A deer has no chance of surviving a hit like that.

So I then loaded some 120g NBT to shoot out of my 7x30 Contender at 2400 fps. I killed several deer with it, and then lost one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen on our place. He was directly facing me when I shot him, and I tracked blood the rest of the day and never recovered him. I switched to a 130g bonded bullet after that and never lost another one. If I'd been using that to start with I have no doubt the deer would have dropped on the spot.

An NBT is a great deer bullet in 30 caliber below 3000, but it's a bad choice in dinky calibers or at higher speeds.


PCP, just a quick note and totally unrelated but bullet speed and recoil don't always go hand in hand. Usually when I'm talking about high velocity bullets then I'm talking about 6mm 7mm and .257 bullets which can be shot extremely fast but without a bunch of recoil. My 25-06 handloads are pushing 3400fps but have the recoil of your.308.

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: joshm28] #2294706
11/15/17 04:08 PM
11/15/17 04:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,682
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
14 point
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
14 point
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,682
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted By: joshm28
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: joshm28
Here's a good rule of thumb

Muzzle Velocity above 3300fps = Mono Bullets

Muzzle Velocity between 3000-3299fps = Bonded Bullets

Muzzle Velocity below 3000fps = any big game bullet


Of course this is MY rule of thumb and based on MY research and real world testing. But...there is a lot of truth to the above. The faster the bullet the more violent the entry. At 3300+ the Ballistic Tips have a higher probability of coming apart too quickly. At .308 speeds, or equivalent they can be absolutely devastating. Choose your bullets based on speeds in which you are pushing them.


I agree completely with your conclusions, though all of my experience with bullets faster than 2920 is based on what other people were using. I don't own any rifles faster than a .308 or 30/06. I have never hunted game bigger than deer and I don't hunt where I can see over 400 yards, so I have no use for anything bigger. My uncle had his 300 Magnum for a caribou hunt, and I think he developed a flinch from shooting the thing and has never been a good shot since.

The first deer I shot with a NBT was sometime in the early 90s. I saw a buck walking across a cutover at 180 yards and had to take a quick shot before he got across. He went out of sight at the shot and I didn't know if I had even hit him until I got there. I caught him high in the shoulder and had a fist sized entry with a small exit. I wish I had made a pic; it was the most devastating wound I've ever seen from any gun. A deer has no chance of surviving a hit like that.

So I then loaded some 120g NBT to shoot out of my 7x30 Contender at 2400 fps. I killed several deer with it, and then lost one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen on our place. He was directly facing me when I shot him, and I tracked blood the rest of the day and never recovered him. I switched to a 130g bonded bullet after that and never lost another one. If I'd been using that to start with I have no doubt the deer would have dropped on the spot.

An NBT is a great deer bullet in 30 caliber below 3000, but it's a bad choice in dinky calibers or at higher speeds.


PCP, just a quick note and totally unrelated but bullet speed and recoil don't always go hand in hand. Usually when I'm talking about high velocity bullets then I'm talking about 6mm 7mm and .257 bullets which can be shot extremely fast but without a bunch of recoil. My 25-06 handloads are pushing 3400fps but have the recoil of your.308.



I certainly understand that, and not quite sure what I said to make you think I didn't? Maybe me saying I had no need for anything bigger than a 308 or 30/06? I was thinking more along the lines of my uncle's 300 Magnum, and the fact that it's too fast for a NBT. Only reason I can see to use that in AL would be at longer ranges than I can see anywhere I hunt.

I've always thought felt recoil had more to do with the weight of the projectile than the velocity. At any rate, I don't think we are disagreeing on anything here.

My main point in getting involved in the thread is that for deer I think there is a pretty narrow range of bullet weight, diameter, and velocity for which the NBT is a great choice. But get very far from that ideal and it becomes a really bad choice.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2294724
11/15/17 04:19 PM
11/15/17 04:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,280
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
12 point
joshm28  Offline
12 point
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,280
Jasper, AL
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: joshm28
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: joshm28
Here's a good rule of thumb

Muzzle Velocity above 3300fps = Mono Bullets

Muzzle Velocity between 3000-3299fps = Bonded Bullets

Muzzle Velocity below 3000fps = any big game bullet


Of course this is MY rule of thumb and based on MY research and real world testing. But...there is a lot of truth to the above. The faster the bullet the more violent the entry. At 3300+ the Ballistic Tips have a higher probability of coming apart too quickly. At .308 speeds, or equivalent they can be absolutely devastating. Choose your bullets based on speeds in which you are pushing them.


I agree completely with your conclusions, though all of my experience with bullets faster than 2920 is based on what other people were using. I don't own any rifles faster than a .308 or 30/06. I have never hunted game bigger than deer and I don't hunt where I can see over 400 yards, so I have no use for anything bigger. My uncle had his 300 Magnum for a caribou hunt, and I think he developed a flinch from shooting the thing and has never been a good shot since.

The first deer I shot with a NBT was sometime in the early 90s. I saw a buck walking across a cutover at 180 yards and had to take a quick shot before he got across. He went out of sight at the shot and I didn't know if I had even hit him until I got there. I caught him high in the shoulder and had a fist sized entry with a small exit. I wish I had made a pic; it was the most devastating wound I've ever seen from any gun. A deer has no chance of surviving a hit like that.

So I then loaded some 120g NBT to shoot out of my 7x30 Contender at 2400 fps. I killed several deer with it, and then lost one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen on our place. He was directly facing me when I shot him, and I tracked blood the rest of the day and never recovered him. I switched to a 130g bonded bullet after that and never lost another one. If I'd been using that to start with I have no doubt the deer would have dropped on the spot.

An NBT is a great deer bullet in 30 caliber below 3000, but it's a bad choice in dinky calibers or at higher speeds.


PCP, just a quick note and totally unrelated but bullet speed and recoil don't always go hand in hand. Usually when I'm talking about high velocity bullets then I'm talking about 6mm 7mm and .257 bullets which can be shot extremely fast but without a bunch of recoil. My 25-06 handloads are pushing 3400fps but have the recoil of your.308.



I certainly understand that, and not quite sure what I said to make you think I didn't? Maybe me saying I had no need for anything bigger than a 308 or 30/06? I was thinking more along the lines of my uncle's 300 Magnum, and the fact that it's too fast for a NBT. Only reason I can see to use that in AL would be at longer ranges than I can see anywhere I hunt.

I've always thought felt recoil had more to do with the weight of the projectile than the velocity. At any rate, I don't think we are disagreeing on anything here.

My main point in getting involved in the thread is that for deer I think there is a pretty narrow range of bullet weight, diameter, and velocity for which the NBT is a great choice. But get very far from that ideal and it becomes a really bad choice.


We are both on the same page

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2294840
11/15/17 06:08 PM
11/15/17 06:08 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,334
NW Alabama
R
R_H_Clark Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R_H_Clark  Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,334
NW Alabama
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: joshm28
Here's a good rule of thumb

Muzzle Velocity above 3300fps = Mono Bullets

Muzzle Velocity between 3000-3299fps = Bonded Bullets

Muzzle Velocity below 3000fps = any big game bullet


Of course this is MY rule of thumb and based on MY research and real world testing. But...there is a lot of truth to the above. The faster the bullet the more violent the entry. At 3300+ the Ballistic Tips have a higher probability of coming apart too quickly. At .308 speeds, or equivalent they can be absolutely devastating. Choose your bullets based on speeds in which you are pushing them.


I agree completely with your conclusions, though all of my experience with bullets faster than 2920 is based on what other people were using. I don't own any rifles faster than a .308 or 30/06. I have never hunted game bigger than deer and I don't hunt where I can see over 400 yards, so I have no use for anything bigger. My uncle had his 300 Magnum for a caribou hunt, and I think he developed a flinch from shooting the thing and has never been a good shot since.

The first deer I shot with a NBT was sometime in the early 90s. I saw a buck walking across a cutover at 180 yards and had to take a quick shot before he got across. He went out of sight at the shot and I didn't know if I had even hit him until I got there. I caught him high in the shoulder and had a fist sized entry with a small exit. I wish I had made a pic; it was the most devastating wound I've ever seen from any gun. A deer has no chance of surviving a hit like that.

So I then loaded some 120g NBT to shoot out of my 7x30 Contender at 2400 fps. I killed several deer with it, and then lost one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen on our place. He was directly facing me when I shot him, and I tracked blood the rest of the day and never recovered him. I switched to a 130g bonded bullet after that and never lost another one. If I'd been using that to start with I have no doubt the deer would have dropped on the spot.

An NBT is a great deer bullet in 30 caliber below 3000, but it's a bad choice in dinky calibers or at higher speeds.


The deer you lost wasn't because you shot a BT. You likely got off center and just clipped part of a lung or maybe just got shoulder. Yes,a better penetrating bonded or mono bullet might have helped if you were at an angle to reach other vitals after more penetration. That BT however acted just like about any cup and core bullet would have with that shot. A core lokt or inter lock may have done the exact same.

It also depends on which one you are shooting. A 120 grain 7mm Nosler BT is a very tough bullet. It was toughened to knock over silhouette targets for those guys when they complained about it.

In general however I do agree with the speed assessment.


You may be right, but keep in mind this was early 90s and the NBT back then supposedly fragmented worse than they do now. I was on a Contender forum back then and a lot of other hunters had bad experiences with that 120g bullet. The buck was chasing a doe, and the first thing I noticed was the size of his nose. I've never seen a deer that looked like him before or since. He was for sure over 200 lbs and going by body shape he was 7 or 8 and one tough hombre. It was a 75 degree morning the day after Thanksgiving and I was just hunting a doe. I heard him grunting as soon as I got in the stand and immediately wished I had brought the .308.

He grunted and chased her in the thicket for an hour or so, and finally she came out and made a circle by me. I had a rest, but I needed him stopped to try the shot. He stopped at 40 yards facing directly at me, and I put the cross hairs on the center of his chest and shot. His knees buckled, but it didn't even knock him down. Then he ran off hard and came right by me; had thick antlers about 20" wide but looked like just 6 points.

It is certainly possible that I was off center with the shot and only got one lung, but also very possible that tough rib cage deflected the bullet to one side, or even slowed penetration enough that it didn't get a vital at all. I sat in the tree for an hour, confident he would be dead within 100 yds. There wasn't a drop of blood or any sign of a hit. Obviously wasn't an exit, but any bullet would not likely have exited from that angle.

I spent an hour looking through a thicket and finally found blood a quarter mile away where he crossed a road. He had to have been bleeding from the entry, and there wasn't a whole lot. When I found that, I went back to camp and waited a couple of hours. I would have waited longer, and should have, but it was so hot I figured he would spoil if I didn't get him soon. I had other hunters coming that afternoon, but I was still alone at that point.

So I went back and picked up the trail where he crossed the road. Deer had been shot for 4 hours by then. I followed the trail about 200 yds and jumped him. I should have backed away again, but I checked out the bed to see how much blood was there, and it wasn't much. I felt sure at that point the bullet was in his chest cavity and hadn't just blown up on a shoulder. I walked a few yards to where he crossed a ditch to see if there was blood there and jumped him again. He had only gone about 100 yds. I backed off then and waited several hours before going back. I found one more drop of blood and never saw another sign of him. I looked for him until dark and then most of the next day. It was the worst deer hunting story of my life.

I can never know for sure exactly what happened, but I always thought the bullet got inside him and fragmented so much that it wasn't able to kill him. Whatever it was, I still get a sick feeling thinking about that deer. He would have been a great deer to take with a handgun. As I said, I switched to the bonded core bullet after that and never lost another deer with the gun. I will forever believe I would have killed that deer if I'd been using the bonded bullet that morning. I could be wrong.

Several years later I shot a 185 lb buck with the .308 and a BT from that same angle. It completely destroyed everything in his chest and it was like a mass of jello when I field dressed him. Not all NBT bullets are the same.


You may very well have center punched him at only 40 yards. Such a shot is the reason I prefer an Accubond over a ballistic tip. I think the Bt's excel at broadside lung shots,but you might not always get that shot.

The last shot I took like that was with a 150 grain factory 270 Fusion. It went full length,exited low in the gut and went back in a hind leg breaking it and lodging against the bone. He didn't go far.

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2294996
11/16/17 03:06 AM
11/16/17 03:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,768
Florence, Al
A
AlabamaSwamper Offline
10 point
AlabamaSwamper  Offline
10 point
A
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,768
Florence, Al
I've got a wall full thay died to the BST ammo I'm mostly 30.06. Dropped a 275lb Nebraska buck Tuesday with them.

Shoot what you like. Any ammo will kill if you shoot them in the heart or lungs.


BTR Scorer in NW Alabama

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2295022
11/16/17 03:26 AM
11/16/17 03:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 597
Madison County
B
bholmes Offline
4 point
bholmes  Offline
4 point
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 597
Madison County
275lb!! I would like to see a pic of that mule!

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2296140
11/16/17 05:49 PM
11/16/17 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,217
Chilton
P
Powpow65 Offline
8 point
Powpow65  Offline
8 point
P
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,217
Chilton
The Winchester xp is the most accurate ammo my model 70 will shoot, but I have had mixed results on deer and swapped to fusions. After reading this thread I might go back to it and try to stay away from the big bones. Need to find a bonded bullet with the same accuracy

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Powpow65] #2298758
11/19/17 12:38 PM
11/19/17 12:38 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,334
NW Alabama
R
R_H_Clark Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R_H_Clark  Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,334
NW Alabama
Originally Posted By: Powpow65
The Winchester xp is the most accurate ammo my model 70 will shoot, but I have had mixed results on deer and swapped to fusions. After reading this thread I might go back to it and try to stay away from the big bones. Need to find a bonded bullet with the same accuracy


Nosler Accubonds always shoot well for me.

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Emile] #2298781
11/19/17 01:02 PM
11/19/17 01:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 371
AL
U
Uokman2014 Offline
4 point
Uokman2014  Offline
4 point
U
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 371
AL
I load my own cartridges and used .270 Nosler BT's for exactly 1 season. They are "trash" for hunting IMO! Switched over to Nosler Accubonds and they are great. Been shooting them for probably 15 years (maybe longer). Used them in 7mag with superior results - almost every one is a pass-through. If you like Nosler bullets - the Accubond is a great bullet. Nosler partitions are also excellent - but they are on the expensive side and overkill for deer.

Re: .270 Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Opinions [Re: Uokman2014] #2298994
11/19/17 03:58 PM
11/19/17 03:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,682
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
14 point
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
14 point
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,682
Sylacauga, AL
BTW, the deer I shot Saturday was of course shot with 308 NBT. I got serious back trouble and can't drag one at all, so I have to pick stands where I can drive to the deer and shoot him in the shoulder with a BT to make sure he is DRT.

But the deer was about 75 yards from a road and walking towards it when I spotted him. Since he was going towards the road I let him get to the last opening before bleating at him to stop him. He was still about 40 yds from the road, so instead of shooting him in the shoulder I shot just behind it, figuring he might make the road before expiring. It worked out perfectly and he was in the ditch just across the road.

I backed the cart right up to him and started winching him into the bed as I always do, but he was so heavy that the cable that holds the winch bumper down snapped and I couldn't get him on. He was far enough into the bed that I was able to just drag him back to the house.

Just further evidence of the superiority of the NBT.

smile




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