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Pre-emissions tractors? #2253032
10/10/17 09:33 AM
10/10/17 09:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,853
USA
R
Remington270 Offline OP
Freak of Nature
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Are the pre-emissions used tractors starting to bring a premium price? It doesn't seem like folks the new add-ons.

Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253271
10/10/17 01:20 PM
10/10/17 01:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 13,147
Montgomery, Alabama
jaredhunts Offline
Puts sugar in his cornbread!
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Montgomery, Alabama
Probably the higher prices of the new models driving up the price of used models.


It be's that way sometimes.

www.sunpoolcompany.com
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253284
10/10/17 01:32 PM
10/10/17 01:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,369
Marshall county
Bar270 Offline
8 point
Bar270  Offline
8 point
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,369
Marshall county
Yes the early and mid 2000"s are still bringing god money wor a well maintaind tractor


Cat doctor
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253523
10/10/17 04:07 PM
10/10/17 04:07 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,176
Satsuma, AL
R
Robert D. Offline
12 point
Robert D.  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,176
Satsuma, AL
They do but most of it is hysteria driven. Here's my take. This applies to tractors between 25 and 80 hp (don't require diesel exhaust fluid).

These tractors have a DPF (diesel particulate filter), the same thing that's been on over the road trucks and diesel pickups for 10 years. It is a catalytic converter (like has been on cars since Outback was in elementary school) combined with a ceramic soot filter. The soot filter catches the black smoke you used to see whenever you cranked a diesel. The DPF has an inlet and outlet sensor and measures the difference constantly. When it determines that the ceramic filter is clogged enough to impair performance, it cleans itself (goes into regen).

All it needs to regenerate is hot enough engine temperature and tiny squirts of diesel. Then it's runs normally until it needs another cleaning.

How you drive and use your tractor will determine the time between those episodes. If you use a tractor like it is designed to be used, i.e. at operating temp, a decent load, and PTO rpm or close by, it puts out very little PM (soot, particulate matter, the coal the idiots like to roll). However, if you use your tractor like a golf cart and putt over to the barn, putt over to the pasture, go get the mail (yes, some people do this) it will load up the filter quite a bit sooner.

When these tractors need to clean themselves, they'll give you a light to alert you. If you're somewhere the regen isn't safe or convenient (say in a greenhouse or a haybarn, or have people or animals walking close around the tractor) you can select the no button and let it happen later. If you're working the tractor hard enough, other than seeing the light, you really won't know it's happening. It's NOT the boogey man, it's not the end of the world. They're still selling diesel pickups every day.

10's of thousands of tractors have been sold with these devices on them. They're not all broken down at the dealership while all the techs run around waving their arms and peeing on the floor. It's not NEARLY the crisis the bed wetters would have you believe. Would I want it in my tractor if it was an option? No, I prefer the simplicity of not having it. That ship sailed long ago however. It didn't originate with Obama and won't be ended by Trump (although I wish it could).

Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253559
10/10/17 04:29 PM
10/10/17 04:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,853
USA
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Remington270 Offline OP
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Offline OP
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USA
Good stuff Robert D

Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253574
10/10/17 04:41 PM
10/10/17 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
Rem270 just likes to worry about something!!! rofl


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: 257wbymag] #2253586
10/10/17 04:50 PM
10/10/17 04:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,853
USA
R
Remington270 Offline OP
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Offline OP
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USA
Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
Rem270 just likes to worry about something!!! rofl


Naw man, I was just amazed to see our 10 year old tractor hadn't lost much value.

Besides, we can't all drive a brand new 100hp cab tractor beers

Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253588
10/10/17 04:53 PM
10/10/17 04:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
Yes you can. Heck you got equity in that fine kubota I know.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Robert D.] #2253676
10/11/17 12:45 AM
10/11/17 12:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted By: Robert D.

All it needs to regenerate is hot enough engine temperature and tiny squirts of diesel. Then it's runs normally until it needs another cleaning.

Which causes unusually high engine temps, thus shortening the engine life and killing horse power.
On a hot summer day you even have to stop working and let the DPF regenerate, cutting productivity of the tractor.
Not to mention these tractors also require a computer science professor to work on them.
No thanks. I'll stay away from those.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253678
10/11/17 12:49 AM
10/11/17 12:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Btw, I was recently offered my original purchase price, as trade in value, for the 5210.
I turned it down, cause I don't plan to get rid of it, nor will I ever buy any tractor later than 08 model.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Out back] #2253793
10/11/17 04:06 AM
10/11/17 04:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,313
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,313
B'ham
There is more to it than just "Emissions". Any piece of equipment that is used like it should be used is going to break down. That's the nature of it. Doesn't matter if it is a bulldozer or a 30hp tractor. In my opinion though... newer equipment is not engineered or designed to last as long as older equipment. Older equipment is designed to last some poor farmer across the globe a lifetime. They use to sell the same tractor to a guy in Alabama as they did in South America or Africa or Eastern Europe, etc. They were overbuilt and easy to work on with few points failure.

Now - they key in on and make tractors for different markets. Much more emphasis on that today. And the changes are not just the stickers on the machine. Their target audience in our market in that 30-80hp range is the guy that is more of a property owner than an actual farmer. This guy usually thinks he doesn't want an older tractor because it won't "start" or it will breakdown because it is 10-30 years "old". The new tractors aren't built as well, there are emmissions control to worry with, the tractor is not built as heavy - might have a lot of aluminum in it. Won't pull as much. Won't lift as much. And generally won't do the same amount of work as it's older counterpart. The newer machine is definitely going to have a lot of plastic on it. And gonna have a lot of electronics on it that when they fail the tractor doesn't work.

When something goes wrong with my new Kubota sometimes I need a mechanic with a laptop to figure out what went bad and how to fix it. Most of the time it requires the dealership. And it is expensive to fix. To be fair I have not had any major internal failures on mine. It is a good machine regardless of these shortcomings which are my opinion.

When something goes wrong with my old Massey or Ford I just fix it. The only thing electrical on the entire machine that has to work is the key/starter. Nothing else. And they will continue to run just about torn all to pieces outside and inside. It is a testament to how well they were built.

And - that's the problem with the notion that older tractors won't "start" or "breakdown". If that is an actual problem then something is wrong or it is worn out. None of my older machines have trouble starting or breaking down. They are actually really reliable. If the lift stops working, fix it. Should be good for another 30 years. They were engineered to last something stupid like 7-10,000 hours and then rebuilt and keep going. New ones I would say if you got 5,000 you'd way ahead of the game as you take it to the junkyard. But today 5,000 would be considered a LOT of hours I think. Most tractor owners don't feed their family with their tractor anymore.

In reality one is not really better than the other. They are just different. A different era in needs and manufacturing that has been trending since maybe the mid 90's to early 2000's. Other economic factors also are in play. So I think it really comes down to money in purchasing. People quit farming 30 years ago. Therefore there are a lot of tractors 10-20 years old with 1500 hours on them. Some buyers understand the reliability and potential to run another 7,000 hours. They can be had for 1/4 the price. So yes, the market for them is good and the prices can be relatively high depending on what kind of shape it is in and how many hours or on it.


No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Robert D.] #2253805
10/11/17 04:17 AM
10/11/17 04:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,851
Dothan/Hartford,Al
87dixieboy Offline
10 point
87dixieboy  Offline
10 point
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,851
Dothan/Hartford,Al
Originally Posted By: Robert D.
They do but most of it is hysteria driven. Here's my take. This applies to tractors between 25 and 80 hp (don't require diesel exhaust fluid).

These tractors have a DPF (diesel particulate filter), the same thing that's been on over the road trucks and diesel pickups for 10 years. It is a catalytic converter (like has been on cars since Outback was in elementary school) combined with a ceramic soot filter. The soot filter catches the black smoke you used to see whenever you cranked a diesel. The DPF has an inlet and outlet sensor and measures the difference constantly. When it determines that the ceramic filter is clogged enough to impair performance, it cleans itself (goes into regen).

All it needs to regenerate is hot enough engine temperature and tiny squirts of diesel. Then it's runs normally until it needs another cleaning.


Not tractor related but this tiny squirt of diesel is a load of crap in my truck. I can literally watch my fuel gauge fall when it regens.


Only accurate rifles are interesting.
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253814
10/11/17 04:31 AM
10/11/17 04:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,659
Alabama
R
Rmart30 Offline
10 point
Rmart30  Offline
10 point
R
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,659
Alabama
The tractor market is slowly catching up with what the construction equipment market has been doing for the last few years.
We have more people now when looking to buy used equipment their first question is does it have a DPF/emissions on it.

You can take 2 identical backhoes a year model apart parked side by side. One with DPF, and one without DPF with higher hours and shows a little more wear and it will sell quicker, and for more $ than the newer one with less hours beside it with DPF.

The difference in emission equipped tractors and non equipped is as goatkiller said.
As far as engine alone, one without DPF most people can work on themselves fairly easily. The other one requires paying a dealer to plug up to it and fix it.
I dont want anything that requires a laptop and propietery software to fix or trouble shoot at a cost of $85-100 a hour. Which by the way shop labor isnt getting any cheaper, its only going to go up in cost in the future.


Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching - even when doing the wrong thing is legal. Aldo Leopold .. (except when it comes to trailer tags)
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253874
10/11/17 05:42 AM
10/11/17 05:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,649
Trussville Alabama
inatree Offline
14 point
inatree  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,649
Trussville Alabama
I know on the cranes I work on. The older ones without all the emission stuff on them are sought after. You can actually get to engine and work on it. LOL


Free men aren't equal and equal men aren't free! I choose to defend my freedom!
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2253929
10/11/17 06:46 AM
10/11/17 06:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,489
Sumter County
sumpter_al Offline
10 point
sumpter_al  Offline
10 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,489
Sumter County
I have a 1976 IH 986 that is awesome. I have had no real problems with it. The only mechanical thing was a hydraulic handle broke, actually the end wore off. It was inexpensive to fix.

It starts every time, even in cold weather. When I first got it it was hard to start in the winter. But I discovered that it only had one battery and it was too small. Like Tacoma sized. I replaced with two type 27 batteries and it starts every time.

I would not take $15k for it.


I love my country, but don't trust my government.
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Out back] #2254231
10/11/17 12:04 PM
10/11/17 12:04 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,176
Satsuma, AL
R
Robert D. Offline
12 point
Robert D.  Offline
12 point
R
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,176
Satsuma, AL
Originally Posted By: Out back
Originally Posted By: Robert D.

All it needs to regenerate is hot enough engine temperature and tiny squirts of diesel. Then it's runs normally until it needs another cleaning.

Which causes unusually high engine temps, thus shortening the engine life and killing horse power.
On a hot summer day you even have to stop working and let the DPF regenerate, cutting productivity of the tractor.
Not to mention these tractors also require a computer science professor to work on them.
No thanks. I'll stay away from those.


No and no. The heat is in the DPF filter itself, not in the engine. Otherwise they'd cook rings, etc. They may not last as long as they "used to" but manufacturers are damn sure not selling something they KNOW won't last through warranty at least. They aren't all killing their business just for fun. The only time they need a "parked" regen is if you have stopped it from doing it when it needed to multiple times.

I've sold them and dealt with the warranty/repair issues. I'm sure your experience with your 5210 trumps that however. I've only had my 5300 7 years and 2 other before that.

Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2254249
10/11/17 12:18 PM
10/11/17 12:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Robert,
Keep peddling that snake oil. All you have to do is read every post in this topic, other than yours, to see you're not fooling anybody.
I have access to, and I run several tractors other than my own. The ones equipped with EPA garbage run hotter, break down more often, don't have the horse power. Only a dealer equipped with sophisticated computers can work on them, and all those reasons lead to much higher operating expense, lost productivity and shorter engine life.
I live on a farm. My neighbors are farmers. I know hundreds of farmers. We ALL share the same opinion, now way we'll ever buy a new tractor.

Last edited by Out back; 10/11/17 12:20 PM.

My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2254287
10/11/17 12:47 PM
10/11/17 12:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,787
Cullman
Z
Zkd22 Offline
8 point
Zkd22  Offline
8 point
Z
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,787
Cullman
I have 2 DPF tractors and I have had zero issues out of either. They average a regen about every 30-40 hours

Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Remington270] #2254307
10/11/17 01:04 PM
10/11/17 01:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Not long ago, one of my neighbors (who now regrets buying his EPA tractor) had to come borrow one our 1984 models.
Seems his new space shuttle just "poof" quit running.
He got the geek squad out here with a multiphasic spectural analyser to check the flux capacitors for subspace anomalies. They eventually loaded it up on a rollback, hauled it in to the computer science lab and kept it for a month.
It's back, now, running fine. Thankfully we had an extra "real" tractor that he used while his was quarantined.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Pre-emissions tractors? [Re: Out back] #2254309
10/11/17 01:06 PM
10/11/17 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,037
Alabama
C
Cactus_buck Online content
12 point
Cactus_buck  Online Content
12 point
C
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,037
Alabama
Originally Posted By: Out back
Not long ago, one of my neighbors (who now regrets buying his EPA tractor) had to come borrow one our 1984 models.
Seems his new space shuttle just "poof" quit running.
He got the geek squad out here with a multiphasic spectural analyser to check the flux capacitors for subspace anomalies. They eventually loaded it up on a rollback, hauled it in to the computer science lab and kept it for a month.
It's back, now, running fine. Thankfully we had an extra "real" tractor that he used while his was quarantined.


What was wrong with it? How much was the bill?

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