He's always spouting off about mutual funds getting 10-12% on an annual basis. This might be true looking back, but there's no way that's true going forward. There's a good chance you'd lose money if you put it in today. Market's at a record high. I agree with 99% of what he says otherwise though.

I'm up 18.45% for the past calendar year, 14.15% ytd. Don' need no stinking mutual fund!

He seems to be wrong more than folks want to admit.

I got no use for somebody else telling me how I should spend or save my money. I do ok on my own accord.

Just wait until all the baby boomers start drawing off their 401ks. Mutual funds will definitely not be a good place to have money.

That's great, and I'm happy for you, but if you wait another year, those paper gains may all be gone. Market is nosebleed high right now.

I think his methodology is sound. I just think the expectations are off. It's the whole "if you save $5/day you'll be a millionaire".....probably not.

I bought a few shares of HRS last month and I'm up 16%

I think he helps more people that need help with their finances than most of us on here do and I applaud him for that. I always thought he preached finding a good mutual fund with a historically good track record and not just what was doing well in high times.
20+ years before I can touch 401K, so hopefully I can recover if/when it bursts.

I personally can't stand listening to or reading DR. We are not "rich" when it comes to $$$. We do save and have investments, but you can be sure we are gonna spend money and enjoy it before we are to old to do so.

I have a tough time listening to a guy tell me to pay cash for everything who has millions in cash.

And I'm not sure he got the millions in cash from that plan

Mutual funds aren't going anywhere. The good thing about the investment world is that despite government regs/FINRA, people from top to bottom are vested in the product. Meaning everyone benefits with strong/consistent returns. That also means that despite those regs, the market is still an extreme free market process and will evolve or fall out of the market.

Besides, funds that have been in existence over 80 years have been in existence that long for a reason. We're talking funds like American Funds Investment that is an actively managed growth/income fund that was started in 1934 and has averaged 12.05% since that time.

Don't get me wrong. I have plenty of disagreements with Ramsey. I think he's too conservative when speaking with younger investors. I was in the game for 10 years and the strategy used for a 50 year old is remarkably different than a 25 year old. All that said, you also have to consider his market. He is speaking/counseling to people who are horrible with money. Some with 100k+ credit card debt, 2 $40k+ vehicles and huge mortgage and less than $1k in the bank. It stands to reason he would be counseling on the conservative side with people who need a credit card to buy a hamburger. Not a criticism of your opinion, just my $0.02. I don't think mutual funds are the end all be all. I just have a lot of confidence in them for quality growth.

Hell yeah Carlos.

I like you. Live on.

Paying cash for everything is a joke.
My line of work a credit card is a must.

I don't think you've listened to him enough. He's never said anything against spending money. He's just said in a nutshell, don't be stupid when spending money.

Most people's line of work

Would reputable national chain hotels even allow you to pay with cash?
Car rentals?
Airline ticket purchases?

Yeah, the cash thing doesn't really work. But the average person is extremely dumb when it comes to debt. That part is factual, and all sorts of businesses are getting wealthy off of it. Because they're smarter than the average guy who "just wants a bass boat" and ends up plowing what should be retirement savings into it.

Everybody takes cash....

It's just not as easy to document for reimbursement. Plus the hassle of carrying.

Negative, ghost rider

Hell why carry a pile of cash on you anyway? Some ok. But a wad isn't a good idea.

Would Enterprise Car rentals require like a briefcase full of cash as collateral? Lol

I bet the guy working the desk would be happy to watch your money...

Just to reiterate the point in my other post, you have to consider his audience. He isn't talking to people who have their finances in order. His biggest market are people who are hanging by a thread financially and don't need a credit card, 2 $700 car payments, and a $2k mortgage payment. I get the criticism of him but you have to consider this.

Also, as I said, he has never told people not to enjoy money. I remember listening to him one day when a lady called in telling him her husband wanted to buy a new Ferrari. He asked her how much money he makes and she said $5 mil a year and is wanting to pay cash for the car. His words verbatim were "let him buy the car. Just because you can't emotionally understand buying a car that expensive doesn't mean it's wrong." Like I said, he isn't against spending money, he's against people being stupid with money.

I always took the cash argument to mean actually have the cash in your account to pay for it, but not physical cash. Debit cards come to mind.

A lot of people don't like him because what he says challenges their borrowing to live a lifestyle they really can't afford. Especially if any emergency at all came up.

Part of his budgeting plan does involve actual envelopes of cash.

Stocks and mutual funds are gonna keep going up as long as the market forces believe Trump can get his trade agenda through. If that changes the whole thang's comin down again ...

Barring some catastrophe of course ...

It's at historic highs, both relative and absolute.

Part of it does but he's a big advocate of debit cards. He does not recommend literally paying cash for everything,

Didn't know that. I just don't see the difference between debit and credit besides security, if you pay it off. But, again, a huge number of folks are dumb and don't do that.

Yep. Stats for 2017 are:
$764 billion in credit card debt
$1.16 trillion in auto loans ($30k being the average auto loan with an average loan term of 68 months)
$8.63 trillion in mortgage debt - $318k average mortgage size for new purchases/real median household income $53k.
52% more debt on average for American households than a decade ago
70% live on credit cards and don’t have an emergency fund. May want to verify this statistic but I’m pretty sure that’s close.

I mean, good grief. I get people have financial problems and people have different levels of blessings in life but you have to get a grip on your finances or they will eat you, your marriage, and your family alive. We can criticize Dave Ramsey all day long (I have my criticisms of him) but the fact is, if this wasn’t a serious problem in the U.S., he wouldn’t have as successful a job as he has. I was in the investment game long enough to see how many people came in at 45-50 years old with no retirement and no money in the bank. But buddy they had a $50k car, expensive house, and a maxed out home equity loan for that trip to the Caribbean. You could literally see the hopelessness in their faces. If I seem passionate about this, I am. People have a seriously warped sense of needs vs wants and need to get it sorted.

My parents have paid cash for everything they have owned since their first house in 1978. That is on my dad’s salary alone. It was a good salary but wasn’t 6 figures. We still went on vacations and had almost everything we wanted. You just have to be able to wait on things you want and put your needs above those wants. They didn’t spend themselves into prosperity. They saved and invested to prosperity.

One thing I disagree with him on is credit cards. There is nothing wrong with a card. My wife and I have a Capital One Venture card that will pay for our entire hotel stay in December in Gatlinburg. But, when we got the card, they gave us a $40k limit. Are you kidding me? Anyway, credit cards are good for some people and it is a case by case basis. We put everything we buy including bills on that card and pay it off as soon as everything is posted to it right before the end of the month and put every bit of cash in our checking at the end of the month (when our second paychecks come in) into our savings. As I said, his main audience are people who don’t need a credit card. They need discipline and basic necessities and to get themselves out of trouble. So, I can’t fault him for being that way about credit cards. You take a couple like us with a $40k limit and no financial discipline and we’re going “hell yeah! Link that baby to Amazon!” Furthermore, some of the people who follow his principles get out of debt but he still preaches against them having a credit card because that tendency to overspend is probably still there.

Sorry Rem, didn’t mean to derail your thread since it is more about his investment advice or write a book. Like I said, I have seen a lot of people in over their heads and once you get over the aggravation with their stupid decisions, it’s heartbreaking. They’ve put their future in jeopardy and their kids. What they could’ve easily put back for college they’ve spent and for their kids to go to college, they have to go into debt. And they’ll probably push their kids to go to an expensive school so they’ll have twice the student loan debt and may or not major in something worthwhile. It’s a never ending cycle just like poverty in the black community. It’s just a different version.

I agree.

Dave Ramsey is a rookie , I have folks in my family that can school him on saving, not spending even though you have it , doing business with cash and such.

I think financially the average American is in a worse place than they were in 2008 before Sub Prime had a blow out.

The whole recovery in the economy has been built on more debt. 8 years worth of it at least.

Live within your means and life is lovely and there is no need for a bunch of debt.

I use a credit card as much as possible. If the collection plate at church had a card swipe, I'd use that too!!!

I pay my credit cards off each month and I am building up cash back. That's free money for stuff I am buying anyway. I also use the Walmart app and get cash back with the "savings catcher". All it takes is a quick scan of the barcode on the receipt.

I spend way more than I should on stuff (mainly hunting related) but I also try to be generous. I've never been through a DR course, but I think his last step is once you have everything paid of, you can give more money away.

It is more blessed to give than to receive...

About 15 years ago, I worked with a guy who's family adhered very strongly to the budget and envelope plan. They literally had envelopes attached to the wall next to a dry erase board with their budgeted cash inside. To see it in action, I was sort of speechless.

I look at his system as a sort of first grade for people who have proved that they can't make a budget or stay on a budget any other way.

I don't use envelopes but I do set aside cash for all my groceries budget every payday, and I put back cash in the gun safe for my hunting and fishing hobby expenses. It just helps me keep track of what I spend better and I don't buy a new gun or ammo or anything that is not in the budget.

My hobby budget is not really a set amount,I just put back some every payday all through the year and if I want a new stand or whatever it's not a huge expense at one time. Just $20 a week will pretty much get anything I want every year.

Not true!
Try renting a car or getting an airline ticket. You cannot do it without a credit or debit card.
It's against federal law to refuse cash, but there's no punishment or enforcement of that law. Because the federal government needs you all to be in debt, they cannot enforce the law that says "Legal tender for all debts".
I try not to do business with anyone who won't take cash, but if I didnt have at least one credit card I couldn't live in this society.

If he would stick to telling people how to become "DEBT FREE", that part is the best advice, especially people today who go in debt fast.