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Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2224754
09/13/17 07:00 AM
09/13/17 07:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,793
alabama
J
judge sharpe Offline
8 point
judge sharpe  Offline
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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,793
alabama
Ok in the past when I planted clover I had to inoculate it before it would grow worth a darn. I do not know what the innoculate was You just mixed it in just before you broadcast it.
I would put the clover seed in a hopper with the grass or other seed and stir it up and throw it out.
Clover fixes nitrogen in the soil so be careful how much ammonium nitrate you put out. It also likes potassium.


Let us cross over the river and rest in the shade of the trees
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Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2224827
09/13/17 08:18 AM
09/13/17 08:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
B
blumsden Offline
12 point
blumsden  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
Most all clover seed comes pre-inoculated nowadays. Nitrogen helps grasses and weeds, clover doesn't need it. I usually use 0-20-20, or 0-46-0, or 0-0-60.

Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2224987
09/13/17 10:42 AM
09/13/17 10:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,434
Sumter County
sumpter_al Offline OP
10 point
sumpter_al  Offline OP
10 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,434
Sumter County

Originally Posted By: blumsden
Yes they will reseed, but are annual clovers, not perennials. Durana, planted in the fall will be slow to establish because it takes several months to establish it's root system, but will take off come spring, as will other white clovers and will be there all year, as long as adequate rainfall is available. Soils that don't hold moisture very well and are east/west oriented with no shade, are not prime candidate's for planting durana. Durana is more drought resistant than most other white clovers.The stem count of durana per square feet is amazing and it spreads very well.


Well then should I add that to the mix? Maybe instead of Yuchi?


I love my country, but don't trust my government.
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2225057
09/13/17 12:14 PM
09/13/17 12:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
I like the yuchi better than the durana so far. The durana just seems a lot less tolerant to less than ideal situations. In order for durana to thrive then you really need for 1) pH to be 6.0 or better…….2) to have a decent clay content in your soil……..3) for the plot to be in a spot where you hold decent moisture….as in NOT on top of a dry hill. Yuchi will grow better in your sandy soils where the durana will not produce as well. A pretty sweet mix in an area as large as your planting would be 5 lbs crimson, 5 lbs yuchi, 3 lbs durana or there abouts……


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2225468
09/14/17 01:13 AM
09/14/17 01:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
B
blumsden Offline
12 point
blumsden  Offline
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Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
I would definitely add it to your mix, especially in any shaded plots that run north and south. That limits the amount of hot summer sun on the plot which dries it out and can kill durana during the late summer, especially during dry years. Like Harold, I love yucchi, and I wanted to plant more this year, but nobody had it locally. Yucchi adds a lot more food than crimson clover, it gets knee high if the deer don't keep it mowed down. It usually dies out in late June, but this year some didn't die, that was shaded, and most survived until August.

Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2225732
09/14/17 07:23 AM
09/14/17 07:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
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Holly Pond, AL
Blumsden hit it on the head. But... I've had great luck with durana. Got fields going on 10-11 years on less than perfect sites.

Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: blumsden] #2225757
09/14/17 08:11 AM
09/14/17 08:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,434
Sumter County
sumpter_al Offline OP
10 point
sumpter_al  Offline OP
10 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,434
Sumter County

Originally Posted By: blumsden
I would definitely add it to your mix, especially in any shaded plots that run north and south. That limits the amount of hot summer sun on the plot which dries it out and can kill durana during the late summer, especially during dry years. Like Harold, I love yucchi, and I wanted to plant more this year, but nobody had it locally. Yucchi adds a lot more food than crimson clover, it gets knee high if the deer don't keep it mowed down. It usually dies out in late June, but this year some didn't die, that was shaded, and most survived until August.


If north to south works best for durana I have a powerline that is maybe 45-50 feet wide and 400 yards long. I usually just put wheat in it but could do durana there. Is that wide enough for it to get enough light. There are 20 year old pines on both sides.


I love my country, but don't trust my government.
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2225765
09/14/17 08:16 AM
09/14/17 08:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
B
blumsden Offline
12 point
blumsden  Offline
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B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
It should be. Clover works well in the shade. The only thing I would be worried about, would be the guys maintaining the ROW. They don't do that when your wheat is there, but during the spring and summer when the durana will be doing great, the crews will move in and drive all over it.

Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: blumsden] #2225861
09/14/17 10:07 AM
09/14/17 10:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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poorcountrypreacher  Offline
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Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
I have about 10 acres that I have in a crimson/arrowleaf mix that's been in existence at least 10 years. I am actually bush hogging some of the fields today. After I Bush hog them I come back a week or 2 later and spray gly, then run the disk over it very lightly and add some extra seed. I think there is enough of a seed bank now that I could get by without adding any, but there usually a bare spot here and there so I add about 10 lbs of seed per acre each year.

If you look at the seed of the 2 clovers, you will see that the crimson seed is much larger. If you put out an equal amount of each, then you are actually planting a lot more of the arrowleaf. That may be exactly what you guys want that are planting equal amounts, so I ain't being critical at all. I think the arrowleaf produces more deer food, but turkeys do love the crimson. I buy one 50 lb bag of arrowleaf and 3 bags of crimson each year and mix them all at that 3-1 ratio. All the deer plots get some of this mix too.

One thing I have noticed is that some fields will grow one of the clovers much better than the other. I've got one field that will not grow crimson at all, but arrowleaf does well in it. And others do much better with the crimson. Mixing them gives me a better chance that one will do well. I use this mix on plots in Perry, Coosa, and Tallapoosa, so l know it works well on a lot of soils.

Now I have a question for the clover experts - I've never had a cultipacker before, but Surefire borrowed one and I can use it this year. I usually do the light discing and then just top sow the clover and don't cover it. How would you guys recommend using the cultipacker? I was thinking of running it over the plots after discing and sowing, but I also thought of skipping the discing and just putting down the seed and running the cultipacker over it.

It seems that some in this thread run the cultipacker over the field and then sow; that seems to defeat the purpose of it to me, but maybe I don't understand. I planted a couple of deer plots 10 days ago and ran the cultipacker over after I lightly covered the seed with the disk, and they both are very green already. In the past, I've usually been able to see the tractor tire tracks as the grass comes up; the tires pack the moisture in and that spot comes up better than the area that doesn't get that compaction. I thought the main function of the cultipacker was to compact the entire field so that moisture is the same everywhere. If that's the case, wouldn't you always want the cultipacker to be the final step?

Thanks, and good luck to the OP with your clover.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2225953
09/14/17 12:13 PM
09/14/17 12:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
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colbert county
I've always ran the cultipacker after planting with good results. I have access to an old Brillion Pulverizer and a home made 12 ft wide roller. Both yield the same results.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2226075
09/14/17 02:37 PM
09/14/17 02:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
10 point
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Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
PCP-

Cultipack- sow- cultipack. Creates best seed to soil contact without burying seed too deep. Sowing on a less than perfect seedbed right before a good rain works well too.

Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2226102
09/14/17 02:52 PM
09/14/17 02:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
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Posts: 18,776
colbert county
I like going in and frost seeding in Jan/Feb when the ground is going to freeze that night. Great way to fill in bare spots with clover.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: NightHunter] #2226274
09/14/17 04:42 PM
09/14/17 04:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
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Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted By: NightHunter
PCP-

Cultipack- sow- cultipack. Creates best seed to soil contact without burying seed too deep. Sowing on a less than perfect seedbed right before a good rain works well too.


Thanks! So in plan A I don't use the disk at all? Plan b is about what I've been doing. But I never had access to a cultipacker before.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2226303
09/14/17 05:00 PM
09/14/17 05:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
Y
Yelp softly Offline
10 point
Yelp softly  Offline
10 point
Y
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Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
PCP, are we strictly talking clover planting? I've read that discing can actually stimulate the reseeding varieties of clover. If we're talking clover seed only, I would disc, cultipack, sow, and cultipack. If I'm short on time, I would feel okay about eliminating the second round of cultipacking.


"When there was no fowl, we ate crawdad, when there was no crawdad, we ate sand."

"YOU ATE SAND!" - Raising Arizona
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: Yelp softly] #2226434
09/15/17 02:27 AM
09/15/17 02:27 AM
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Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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poorcountrypreacher  Offline
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Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted By: Yelp softly
PCP, are we strictly talking clover planting? I've read that discing can actually stimulate the reseeding varieties of clover. If we're talking clover seed only, I would disc, cultipack, sow, and cultipack. If I'm short on time, I would feel okay about eliminating the second round of cultipacking.


Planting clover only, but on areas that have been growing it 10 years. The discing does help reseeding, but I add a little seed too.

I guess I don't understand purpose of first trip with cultipacker.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2226445
09/15/17 02:49 AM
09/15/17 02:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
B
blumsden Offline
12 point
blumsden  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
PCP, the first trip with cultipacker would only be if you disc. That would level and firm you seed bed and then the second pass would press seed into seed bed. I do neither. I top sew without discing and walk away. The rain washes any seed to the soil that didn't get there on its on.

Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2226550
09/15/17 04:59 AM
09/15/17 04:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
Y
Yelp softly Offline
10 point
Yelp softly  Offline
10 point
Y
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher

I guess I don't understand purpose of first trip with cultipacker.


Based on what I've read, it's simply to firm up the seed bed which supposedly yields better germination. By broadcasting directly on loose soil, a percentage of seed will likely get buried too deep and fail to grow. I think the rule of thumb for seed planting depth is approximately 2 times the diameter of the seed. When you look at it that way, it's easy to see that a small seed like clover cannot withstand a 1 inch planting depth. Firming the seed bed first will ensure that less of your seed gets planted too deep, thus increasing your germination rate, in theory.


"When there was no fowl, we ate crawdad, when there was no crawdad, we ate sand."

"YOU ATE SAND!" - Raising Arizona
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: Yelp softly] #2226662
09/15/17 07:49 AM
09/15/17 07:49 AM
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Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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Thanks for the replies. My dad used to do nothing but bush hog his pecan orchard and he always had a great stand of crimson in the spring. I've thought that light discing helped the seed to germinate sooner and give me a better stand during deer season, but I've never really approached from a scientific basis and tried to test the different methods. It seems to me that rain is the most important thing; get plenty of rain and any way will work.

I might try some different methods in different fields. Any thing that cuts down on trips is good. I will try at least one by putting seed out and running the cultipacker over it. It would be nice if that will work.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: sumpter_al] #2226715
09/15/17 09:12 AM
09/15/17 09:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
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AL
T
therealhojo Offline
8 point
therealhojo  Offline
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AL
The purpose is the 1st pass with the cultipacker, like stated before, it to make a firm seed bed. Think of how many seed get covered to deep after the first disking just by falling into a 1/2" crack then covered even by a light dragging.

Re: Establishing clover plots [Re: therealhojo] #2226735
09/15/17 09:43 AM
09/15/17 09:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
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Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted By: therealhojo
The purpose is the 1st pass with the cultipacker, like stated before, it to make a firm seed bed. Think of how many seed get covered to deep after the first disking just by falling into a 1/2" crack then covered even by a light dragging.


That makes sense. But I have a reasonably firm seed bed after just running over it with the bush hog. I'm thinking I can just bush hog, spray, put out seed, then cultipack. That would save the trip with the disk and also the first pass with the cultipacker. These are all sandy loam soils, so it's not like dealing with hard clay.

Does anyone do it this way? I'm sure it would work to some extent. If I can eliminate 2 trips with the tractor and still make 90% of what I would have, that's a trade I will make.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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