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Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
#2199540
08/19/17 07:35 AM
08/19/17 07:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091
Sylacauga, AL
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I know we have some serious duck hunters on here and I'd appreciate any feedback on this pattern. It's a tss #8 load with one ounce of shot, so there are 250 shot in the shell. That's more than a 1.25 oz load of #4 steel, and these should penetrate like #3 lead. Velocity is 1335. I am not a duck hunter, but I am going on a hunt in OK in December. These are gonna cost about $65 a box, but they recoil less than a dove load, and that's important for a guy with my back issues. I shot this pattern with an IC choke. It put 85% inside the 30" circle, with a 70/30 spread that I like for wing shooting. It obviously is denser on the left, but I think that will just be a shell to shell variation. I think it's still too tight of a pattern, and I probably need to try a skeet choke. Thanks for any comments.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2199559
08/19/17 08:03 AM
08/19/17 08:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451 North Alabama
YEKRUT
Turkey Nut
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Turkey Nut
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
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Gonna be a lot of dead ducks in your future. That load through a full choke would be an awesome cripple killer load. I imagine you are going to pull the trigger a time or 2 and have your limit pretty regular too. A wad of 30 teal buzz the decoys and you shoot 3 times and have a truck load of ducks.
Last edited by YEKRUT; 08/19/17 08:04 AM.
Some men are mere hunters; others are turkey hunters. —Archibald Rutledge—
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2199593
08/19/17 09:05 AM
08/19/17 09:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,621 Montgomery
bamaeyedoc
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,621
Montgomery
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what distance was that pattern?
Dr. B
AKA: “Dr. B” Aldeer #121 8-3-2000 Proud alum of AUM, UAB, and UA Member of Team 10 Point 2023-2024 ALdeer Deer Contest Winners
Glennis Jerome "Jerry" Harris 1938-2017 UGA Class of 1960 BS/MS Forestry LTJG, USNR
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: bamaeyedoc]
#2199634
08/19/17 09:56 AM
08/19/17 09:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
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OP
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what distance was that pattern?
Dr. B 40 yds. Thanks for all the comments. I realize it's not very cost effective, but I've never been on a decent, legal, duck hunt in my life. It's a 3 day hunt and the $200 on shells is not a significant amount of the total cost of the hunt. Plus, I've always wanted to see how tss would perform on ducks. We are supposed to be primarily hunting mallards, so I won't be able to kill very many in a best case scenario. The only times I've ever killed many ducks was back in HS when there were several of us that shot wood ducks coming to roost. I don't think we ever killed one before sunset, so they were all illegal. I've been on a few duck hunts as a guest, using the decoys and all that. Don't think we have ever gotten more than 2 or 3; seems like I've always caught bad weather or something has gone wrong. I was planning to buy a box or 2 of steel loads too, but with my luck all the ducks will leave OK the day before we arrive.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2200442
08/20/17 02:11 PM
08/20/17 02:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889
colbert county
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If you're hunting divers on open water it's a great pattern or puddlers in fields. If you are in timber that's tight, so it really depends on where you are hunting. Has the guide or buddies mentioned what type habitat?
It really varies at times too, I always take an IC, MR and LR choke when hunting in AR.
When we hunted Green Bay most of the divers were between 15-25 yards. We used 7.5 HS loads. Here divers will be 35-50 yards shots. You will like that TSS I bet, I shoot E-Shot some and it is deadly. Can't afford TSS for ducks, the again, some years I might shoot a case or so.
Enjoy your trip and y'all wear'em out!
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: cartervj]
#2200613
08/20/17 04:10 PM
08/20/17 04:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091
Sylacauga, AL
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Thanks for the additional comments. I really don't know what to expect as far as the terrain, but having turkey hunted in the area I don't think there can be many trees.
After thinking about it more, I'm pretty sure that the guy that came up with the tss name and first started selling it recommended cylinder bore. I think I will try that next. Even at 40 yds, that pattern would destroy the duck if I could hit him with the dense part. At 20 yards, it would just be feathers.
It's a combo quail hunt so I guess I will be carrying extra chokes in my pocket anyway.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2201160
08/21/17 07:27 AM
08/21/17 07:27 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363 On the X
TickaTicka
12 point
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12 point
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363
On the X
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As others have said, I'd want it a little bit more open for decoying birds. My guess is that you make take some 40 yd shots at some exiting birds, but your first and second shot will be much less than that.
Sounds like a fun trip. Oklahoma is a gem for waterfowling.
Public Land Owner
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2201331
08/21/17 09:28 AM
08/21/17 09:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 558 Flomaton/Dothan
olcountry
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 558
Flomaton/Dothan
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PCP DON'T DO IT!!!! It will get in your blood in a hurry
Live like you are dieing!!!
Let me live till i'm too old to die young.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2201888
08/22/17 12:54 AM
08/22/17 12:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,229 Town Creek,Al.
Luvbowhuntn
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,229
Town Creek,Al.
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If back issues are whats pushing you to throw tss at ducks I'd leave that SBE at home and carry a 20ga with #4 steel shot and a Light Mod choke and a Full choke. Those two chokes and 3's or 4's out of a 20ga will kill any duck you should be shooting at. Plus it'll be a lot easier toting on the quail part of the hunt. Won't be much duck left to eat if they get centered up by a tss load. Next to a pump you're toting one of the worst guns to carry for a guy looking to ease back on recoil.
Sent leaning against a big oak in knee deep water
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: Fishduck]
#2202335
08/22/17 11:39 AM
08/22/17 11:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
Booner
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091
Sylacauga, AL
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Thanks for all the additional comments, but I've already got most of the shells loaded. I was using shot I already had and ran out. More shot should be here tomorrow and I will load the last box then. I was gonna try another shot with a cylinder choke, but it was just too hot to fool with it today. I've shot enough tss to be confident that the pattern will open up with no choke. My SBE 1 has a 24" barrel and only weighs a shade over 7 lbs, so I can carry it ok. I just didn't wanna shoot 3.5" waterfowl loads through it. I usually hunt with a sxs, 12 or 20 depending on what and where I'm hunting. But we are flying on this trip and I'm limited to carrying one gun, so the SBE is the most versatile shotgun I've got. And considering the cost of the hunt, I wanted 3 shots at everything. I've been shooting clays with it and I hit better with this gun than anything else I've got it. Unlike a good sxs, it has no soul. . I'll post a pic of the cylinder pattern whenever I shoot it.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: TickaTicka]
#2202340
08/22/17 11:48 AM
08/22/17 11:48 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
Booner
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091
Sylacauga, AL
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As others have said, I'd want it a little bit more open for decoying birds. My guess is that you make take some 40 yd shots at some exiting birds, but your first and second shot will be much less than that.
Sounds like a fun trip. Oklahoma is a gem for waterfowling. As I said, I've done very little genuine duck hunting, but I've watched a lot on TV. I wanna be the guy that drops that last duck after everyone else has given up. Gonna be 5 of us in the blind - do I wanna try to get on the end or be in the middle? If it turns out like my previous duck hunts, I'll probably just quail hunt after the first morning and let the rest of the group have the ducks. I know what to expect from quail hunting. I don't get to do it much anymore, but it's my favorite type of wing shooting.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2202351
08/22/17 12:05 PM
08/22/17 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,157 B'ham
Goatkiller
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,157
B'ham
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So consider that steel shot is pretty light and doesn't really kick that bad in the first place.
Some 3" steel in a gas operated shotgun doesn't really "kick" that hard and if you put a limbsaver on the SBE it doesn't really kick that hard either.
Also consider you are going to waste a LOT of shells because you are going to take shots you otherwise would not take, meaning every time a group buzz the blind or pit you ARE going to empty the gun most likely. That's where while duck hunting, people that are otherwise good shots, going through a couple boxes is not uncommon. I use to guide on Reelfoot.... I'd suggest on average take about twice the amount of shells you think you'll need. Typically take a LOT of shooting to kill 30 ducks plus the guide's limit... I've done it hundreds of times with hundreds of different people. I'd say that is a fact on average. You might not get that good a hunt but you might. Oklahoma can be good.
If all goes as planned... you'll go through too many shells to worry about TSS. Take what you have loaded and go buy several boxes of steel to take with you for shooting cripples or if you run out.
For ducks you want to be on the down wind corner of the blind if there is one they are supposed to pitch into the wind to land, that doesn't always happen but that's the theory. Sometime the hole isn't setup for the current wind there are a lot of "ifs". They don't always do what they are supposed to.
No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: Goatkiller]
#2202358
08/22/17 12:19 PM
08/22/17 12:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 15,979 Brierfield
Beadlescomb
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 15,979
Brierfield
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So consider that steel shot is pretty light and doesn't really kick that bad in the first place.
Some 3" steel in a gas operated shotgun doesn't really "kick" that hard and if you put a limbsaver on the SBE it doesn't really kick that hard either.
Also consider you are going to waste a LOT of shells because you are going to take shots you otherwise would not take, meaning every time a group buzz the blind or pit you ARE going to empty the gun most likely. That's where while duck hunting, people that are otherwise good shots, going through a couple boxes is not uncommon. I use to guide on Reelfoot.... I'd suggest on average take about twice the amount of shells you think you'll need. Typically take a LOT of shooting to kill 30 ducks plus the guide's limit... I've done it hundreds of times with hundreds of different people. I'd say that is a fact on average. You might not get that good a hunt but you might. Oklahoma can be good.
If all goes as planned... you'll go through too many shells to worry about TSS. Take what you have loaded and go buy several boxes of steel to take with you for shooting cripples or if you run out.
For ducks you want to be on the down wind corner of the blind if there is one they are supposed to pitch into the wind to land, that doesn't always happen but that's the theory. Sometime the hole isn't setup for the current wind there are a lot of "ifs". They don't always do what they are supposed to. i take it youve never sat next to preach on a dove field
We will burn that bridge when we get there
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: Beadlescomb]
#2202572
08/22/17 03:42 PM
08/22/17 03:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
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OP
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Sylacauga, AL
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Thanks for the info, Goatkiller. I didn't know you had been a duck guide too. Great to hear from someone who has hunted with a bunch of rookies like me. Every duck hunt I've been on the other guys always told me we were gonna slaughter them, and it never happens. Last time I went, I got up at 2:30, helped put out decoys in the dark, and then had 2 wood ducks pass by at sunrise and that was it. I hope this hunt will be better than that, but I'm keeping expectations low. I can't imagine getting enough shooting to kill 18 mallards in 3 days, but I'm tempted to say I'm confident I can do that with 75 rounds of TSS. Maybe I need to carry 100. Beadle, you were the one who killed every dove that passed by that morning.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2202636
08/22/17 04:14 PM
08/22/17 04:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889
colbert county
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About where you want to get in the blind, I hate being in the middle, then again I'm usually calling and need an end to be able to watch.
We usually try and tell each other to shoot your birds. If there is several, the ends take the edge birds and the middle guys take the middle.
Most end up throwing the plan out and shoot the closest bird.
I will usually try and pick the furtherest in range bird. Then pick up birds flying out. I used to be the guy that finished that one bird leaving. Dropped a many on the 3rd shot. My eyes are nothing like they used to be, lot's of whiffs these days.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: cartervj]
#2210446
08/30/17 12:40 PM
08/30/17 12:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
Booner
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091
Sylacauga, AL
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I promised a pic of how the tss shoots with just a cylinder choke installed, so here it is: As you can see, there's not a lot of difference; got 82% inside the 30" circle at 40 yds. It's still too tight for close shots, though it should drop a duck at very long range if I can hit him. I'll talk to the outfitter and try to decide what to do. I could put a steel load in the barrel and 2 tss loads in magazine. Or considering that there will be 5 of us in the blind I could just shoot it as is. Also thinking I might take a sxs and put steel in one barrel and the tss in the other. It should be fun to test it regardless. TSS continues to surprise me after a decade of use. To get an 82% pattern without any choke is not what I expected, and I was wrong in thinking I could open the pattern up with less choke. This would be a better setup for turkey than what I used for decades.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: AU coonhunter]
#2210577
08/30/17 02:22 PM
08/30/17 02:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091
Sylacauga, AL
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Did you shoot it at 25 to see how tight it is? Amazing how tight that it patterns. Change the amount of buffer to see if it will open up more? Just pretend they are turkeys and shoot them in the head. There's no buffer in the shell and I don't think I wanna know how small the pattern is at 25 yds. These shells were loaded on a Mec loader and aren't quite as consistent as our turkey loads that we weigh. I still counted 65 hits in a 10" circle a couple of inches high on the aiming dot. At 1335, they would penetrate better than #2 lead. And that's in a gun with no choke. This stuff seems to defy physics.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2210613
08/30/17 03:09 PM
08/30/17 03:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889
colbert county
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I wouldn't mix steel loads and then TSS loads, they will shoot different enough it might make for some tough shooting. I know when I shoot the E Shot from Bucks Run it takes a few shots to adjust my leads from steel shot.
Very nice pattern you have there, and like AU mentioned, you will have some folks wanting those magic loads.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: AU coonhunter]
#2210629
08/30/17 03:22 PM
08/30/17 03:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,857 Montgomery / Luverne
crenshawco
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,857
Montgomery / Luverne
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I have a feeling by the end of your hunt that everyone will want some of your magic shells. I wonder how a steel/tss load would pattern? Good. Hal has some recipes for them. It opens patterns up too
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: crenshawco]
#2210783
08/30/17 05:33 PM
08/30/17 05:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091
Sylacauga, AL
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I have a feeling by the end of your hunt that everyone will want some of your magic shells. I wonder how a steel/tss load would pattern? Good. Hal has some recipes for them. It opens patterns up too I suspect one of those duplex loads would combine price and performance to make an excellent load for a serious duck hunter. It's a one time hunt for me, so I'm not worried about being practical. I think I would get the pattern to open up some in a different gun. That chrome lined barrel of the SBE 1 has always shot any load really tight.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2214565
09/03/17 05:52 PM
09/03/17 05:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 5 North Alabama
I_prefer_ducks
spike
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spike
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 5
North Alabama
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Like its been said before, its probably too tight of a group for puddlers inside 40yds. But a mix of tss and steel could be the golden ticket for divers or finishing off cripples on the water.
If you decide to try that and figure up a price per box, I'd like to give em a shot this season....
_________________________________________________
Auburn University '18 Wildlife Biologist
"But those who's hearts are stirred by the sound of whistling wings and quacking mallards..."
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: I_prefer_ducks]
#2336808
12/19/17 05:35 AM
12/19/17 05:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
Booner
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Sylacauga, AL
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I finally made it back home yesterday from my OK hunt. We were supposed to fly into Atlanta Sunday and got caught up in the power outage. It was an appropriate conclusion to a dissappointing hunt. I expected the ducks to be iffy, but I really thought the quail were a sure thing. They weren't. I was the high man in our group and got only 4 quail in 1.5 days of hard hunting. The duck hunting wasn't much better. I got 3 chances to get a mallard and missed them all. They were all pass shots in the 45-50 yard range but I should have gotten at least one. The other group got some good shooting one day and got 9. I did get a limit of ringnecks one morning and that was the most excitement of the hunt. The good news is that my tss shells worked great. I gave the other 4 hunters some to try and one guy got several at what he described as long range. They certainly worked well on the ringnecks, but I had easier shots on them than I did the mallards. Thanks to all for the advice. I suspect any future duck hunting I do will be limited to jump shooting wood ducks on the creek.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2337862
12/19/17 05:03 PM
12/19/17 05:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889
colbert county
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Still beats a hard day of work. Looks like you had some fun even though the birds weren't there. It's been one of those years.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: cartervj]
#2340300
12/21/17 02:39 PM
12/21/17 02:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
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OP
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Still beats a hard day of work. Looks like you had some fun even though the birds weren't there. It's been one of those years. Beats working, for sure. The most surprising thing I saw out there was thousands of sandhill cranes. They were in groups of 100 or more and flew around slowly, maybe 2000 feet high. I never saw a one on the ground and our outfitter had no ideas on how to hunt them, but they are out there in big numbers. Anyone ever hunted them?
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2340477
12/21/17 04:57 PM
12/21/17 04:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,889
colbert county
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I'd love to hunt them, Ribeyes of the sky they are called. I think there is some hunting zones in TN. Wheeler Refuge winters 30-40,000, they have a Crane Festival in February. I hope AL will get a season. Since they are usually hunted of dry fields, I know states allow lead shot.
They can be deadly on dogs if wounded though so you gotta use your head.
Heck I'm getting all excited, flushed about 50 mallards today at the farm, loaded a box of shells and gonna give a try int he morning. Still can't bring myself to shoot TSS at ducks. I bought several several pounds of it at $24 a lb.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: Remington270]
#2341154
12/22/17 08:33 AM
12/22/17 08:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 877 south baldwin county
JayHook
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 877
south baldwin county
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In my opinion, you're right. That pattern is too tight. I don't understand why folks want a pattern so tight? They must point straighter than me. I also like to eat the birds we shoot. All you need is modified at best and IC may be better. Try Federal Black Clouds. We have found nothing that is better. But in the timber it just flat doesnt matter unless you are trying to treetop big ducks because shots should be close.
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Re: Duck hunters - please evaluate my pattern
[Re: JayHook]
#2341514
12/22/17 02:59 PM
12/22/17 02:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,091
Sylacauga, AL
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In my opinion, you're right. That pattern is too tight. I don't understand why folks want a pattern so tight? They must point straighter than me. I also like to eat the birds we shoot. All you need is modified at best and IC may be better. Try Federal Black Clouds. We have found nothing that is better. But in the timber it just flat doesnt matter unless you are trying to treetop big ducks because shots should be close. I didn't want the pattern that tight, hence the reason I started the thread. And 2 of those 3 patterns were shot with no choke at all, and still shot over 80%. The recipe has no buffer in it, so I don't know how to open it up. I wouldn't prefer the tss as my first shot, but it sure worked well on 2nd and third shots. I shot all of the ringnecks inside of 35 yards; think I shot just one with steel and killed the others with tss.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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