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Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: perchjerker] #2070269
03/26/17 02:43 PM
03/26/17 02:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
I kill and trap coyotes. I really don't care if coyotes go extinct. I just hate to see people swayed by propaganda. I encourage you to reflect on your own experiences. How many fawns can you say that you know were killed by coyotes? How many fawns have you found dead, from any cause?
Have you ever questioned these "studies"? Have you learned how they conduct and control the "studies"? What if they started with a desired result and built a study to support it? Would you then question the results?


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: centralala] #2070273
03/26/17 02:47 PM
03/26/17 02:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
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Clanton, AL
Originally Posted By: centralala
As far as coyotes be more prevelant with higher deer numbers, that has been addressed also in studies. Coyotes move to the food. Food makes them healthier. Healthier coyotes have bigger litters and higher pup survival. That one is really just common sense.

Why does the deer population continue to thrive in those same areas? Wouldn't that seem to defy common sense?


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: 2Dogs] #2070308
03/26/17 03:03 PM
03/26/17 03:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
turkey247 Offline
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turkey247  Offline
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Originally Posted By: 2Dogs

The paragraph about fawning cover got me to thinking, does those areas in LA with low deer numbers have good fawning cover? How's vast acreages of pines for cover? I think it would only be good at certain stages of the plantation cycle.


I can assure you it's not LACK of fawning cover. That's a promise I can make 100% sure of.

Bullets and yotes. A doe and her fawn may be able to survive a yote down here, but the others likely gonna catch up to one or both of them during the season.

Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: perchjerker] #2070312
03/26/17 03:06 PM
03/26/17 03:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
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turkey247 Offline
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Hey Outback - this camera had as many pictures of dead fawns than it had Does in a two week span.


Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: Out back] #2070324
03/26/17 03:13 PM
03/26/17 03:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
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C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted By: Out back
Originally Posted By: centralala
As far as coyotes be more prevelant with higher deer numbers, that has been addressed also in studies. Coyotes move to the food. Food makes them healthier. Healthier coyotes have bigger litters and higher pup survival. That one is really just common sense.

Why does the deer population continue to thrive in those same areas? Wouldn't that seem to defy common sense?


There is some thoughts on that also by these studying people. I can't remember which studies I've read so many but there were 2 keys: Good cover (that was discussed on here not long ago about Ft. Rucker not having good cover) and getting as many fawns on the ground at the same time as possible (how can we do that?). Do I question these studies? ABSOLUTELY!!!! Not that I'm concerned about it being steered as much as does it apply to my area. That's why I favor Alabama studies but even with that Mobile and Cullman can be different. I could go on and on but I won't change your mind and you won't change mine. We will have to agree to disagree. Nothing personal, just the way it goes sometimes.

Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: 2Dogs] #2070336
03/26/17 03:25 PM
03/26/17 03:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
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central ala,
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs

The paragraph about fawning cover got me to thinking, does those areas in LA with low deer numbers have good fawning cover? How's vast acreages of pines for cover? I think it would only be good at certain stages of the plantation cycling's


The fawning cover is a problem in a lot of places. Take the people on this forum for example. Most know what is needed. The others know they can ask for suggestions about cover....like I did some of y'all about planting in hills. BUT, its all for nothing if its a lease and the landowner won't allow what is necessary to be done. Hunters hands are tied.

Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: perchjerker] #2070372
03/26/17 03:45 PM
03/26/17 03:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
perchjerker Offline OP
Freak of Nature
perchjerker  Offline OP
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Slidell, La
I can't count the number of times I've been scouting and heard something running towards me. I step behind a tree and a fawn or yearling ran by. a few seconds later a group of yotes are dogs attempt to run by on their trail. They aren't doing it for fun. Yes, yotes kill fawns and yearlings. Photos's indicate they kill bucks weak from the rut or fighting too.


Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!

If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!

Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: turkey247] #2070377
03/26/17 03:48 PM
03/26/17 03:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: turkey247
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs

The paragraph about fawning cover got me to thinking, does those areas in LA with low deer numbers have good fawning cover? How's vast acreages of pines for cover? I think it would only be good at certain stages of the plantation cycle.


I can assure you it's not LACK of fawning cover. That's a promise I can make 100% sure of.

Bullets and yotes. A doe and her fawn may be able to survive a yote down here, but the others likely gonna catch up to one or both of them during the season.


So you are 100% sure ALL of LA, say south of Montgomery has adequate fawning cover?



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: perchjerker] #2070483
03/26/17 04:46 PM
03/26/17 04:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
bigt Offline
14 point
bigt  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
I watched coyotes chase a fawn around one morning years ago while bowhunting. From that day forward I shoot every coyote I see. From my experience not only coyotes but also bears do a number on fawns.


Life is too short to be small !!

http://crshuntingclub.webs.com/
Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: turkey247] #2070515
03/26/17 05:07 PM
03/26/17 05:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,538
Spanish Fort
O
ozarktroutbum Offline
10 point
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O
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Posts: 3,538
Spanish Fort
Originally Posted By: turkey247
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs

The paragraph about fawning cover got me to thinking, does those areas in LA with low deer numbers have good fawning cover? How's vast acreages of pines for cover? I think it would only be good at certain stages of the plantation cycle.


I can assure you it's not LACK of fawning cover. That's a promise I can make 100% sure of.

Bullets and yotes. A doe and her fawn may be able to survive a yote down here, but the others likely gonna catch up to one or both of them during the season.
You're gonna have to explain yourself. I am not saying you are wrong but one of the reasons we don't have quail anymore is due to poor brooding habitat. You're saying this doesn't apply to fawns in the least?

Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: perchjerker] #2070529
03/26/17 05:23 PM
03/26/17 05:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,407
Boaz,AL
CarbonClimber1 Offline
14 point
CarbonClimber1  Offline
14 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,407
Boaz,AL
I don't know about other places but I know marshall co has real problems with a lack of fawn cover. we have tons of pastureland and really the only decent cove we have in a lot of places is sucession in cutovers at least until the privet comes up and creates a canopy so thick nothing grows under it. failing fawn cover and a VERY robust coyote population drive our numbers down baddddd. im getting to the point where I don't get pics of fawns and fewer deer period. get pics of lots coyotes an bobcats occasionally ill get a pic of a yote totin a leg or a piece of a fawn. nobody gives a crap about it around here tho. they jus keep growin chickens an pourin the litter to tha pastures. we got some mighty fine lookin cows tho an lotsa purty chicken houses.


"I dont quit.. And ill fight alone if i have to"
Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: 2Dogs] #2070543
03/26/17 05:54 PM
03/26/17 05:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
turkey247 Offline
10 point
turkey247  Offline
10 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs
Originally Posted By: turkey247
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs

The paragraph about fawning cover got me to thinking, does those areas in LA with low deer numbers have good fawning cover? How's vast acreages of pines for cover? I think it would only be good at certain stages of the plantation cycle.


I can assure you it's not LACK of fawning cover. That's a promise I can make 100% sure of.

Bullets and yotes. A doe and her fawn may be able to survive a yote down here, but the others likely gonna catch up to one or both of them during the season.


So you are 100% sure ALL of LA, say south of Montgomery has adequate fawning cover?


I'm sure there's areas across South AL that have too much open land/pasture/ag as a percentage of the landscape that may limit fawning cover.

But rest assured - South AL has plenty of - younger stage pine plantations, private owned clearcuts left to naturally regenerate, pines in a mid rotation age with substantial cover, and owners who manage their timberland either directly or indirectly in a manner to create fawning cover. The "woods" here are constantly evolving and changing stages/ages, driven by the market of timber production. Not all of those stages of timberland are fawning habitat, but there's a constant patchwork of different ages of timberland, including 1st and 2nd thinnings and clearcuts.

What I said was it's not a lack of cover. You don't have to seek out good fawning cover. The management practices here create it. We are talking about landscape level fawning cover across huge areas, where populations have declined. Not small pockets where there may be less cover available. It wouldn't take long for me to ride a person around in areas where populations are low, and show then adequate fawn nursery habitat.

Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: ozarktroutbum] #2070546
03/26/17 06:03 PM
03/26/17 06:03 PM
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Posts: 4,779
LASW
turkey247 Offline
10 point
turkey247  Offline
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LASW
Originally Posted By: ozarktroutbum
You're gonna have to explain yourself. I am not saying you are wrong but one of the reasons we don't have quail anymore is due to poor brooding habitat. You're saying this doesn't apply to fawns in the least?


I don't think quail brooding habitat and fawning cover are necessarily the same thing. Land managed for quail may be good fawning cover also, but adequate fawning cover won't necessarily be good quail habitat.

Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: perchjerker] #2070580
03/26/17 08:57 PM
03/26/17 08:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,102
Gulf Coast
captjab Offline
10 point
captjab  Offline
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Posts: 4,102
Gulf Coast
Here's the dang problem.


Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: perchjerker] #2070582
03/26/17 09:02 PM
03/26/17 09:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
perchjerker Offline OP
Freak of Nature
perchjerker  Offline OP
Freak of Nature
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Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
Calling outback and pcp !


Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!

If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!

Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: turkey247] #2070720
03/27/17 03:35 AM
03/27/17 03:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
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Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted By: turkey247
Hey Outback - this camera had as many pictures of dead fawns than it had Does in a two week span.

Although the picture doesn't prove anything other than coyotes will eat dead things, it does provide better evidence than anything I've seen published by grad students. When I read Auburn's Ft Rucker study I had to wonder how those people manage to dress and feed themselves.
But, as I've said, I'm not defending coyotes. I know they eat turkey eggs and that's reason enough for me to kill them all, every last one.

Last edited by Out back; 03/27/17 03:37 AM.

My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: perchjerker] #2070770
03/27/17 04:17 AM
03/27/17 04:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,537
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Online Content
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,537
Awbarn, AL
Don't they inspect the yote scat to determine what its been eating?


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: CNC] #2070958
03/27/17 07:56 AM
03/27/17 07:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
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Montgomery
There is a lack of fawning cover all over the South.

I experienced a big deer population drop off in the mid 2000s (2005-07) which I reported here. Some may recall my report in the Fall of 2007,the Great Drought year, that I reported that virtually no does had fawns with them. At the time I was not sure of the exact reason(s) but I suspected that it had to be the coyotes who had finally settled in heavy in my area, and maybe also something to do with the big 100 year drought.

Coyotes proved to be the case. And that coupled with me over killing does had resulted in a major population drop of about 75% fewer deer.

So the first thing I did was stop shooting does and I also started doing strategic timber thinning and annual burning of all pine plantation.

The net result is that slowly over time the population started going up, and I started seeing more fawns. Eventually.

But the population is still not what it was pre 2007 and I still see a lot of does without fawns each hunting season.

That has been my experience.


"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: CNC] #2071112
03/27/17 10:33 AM
03/27/17 10:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted By: CNC
Don't they inspect the yote scat to determine what its been eating?

Personally I don't know the regional scat inspector. But that would only indicate what they EAT, not what they killed.

Last edited by Out back; 03/27/17 10:33 AM.

My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Yote article from GON. [Re: Out back] #2071155
03/27/17 11:12 AM
03/27/17 11:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,537
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Online Content
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,537
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted By: Out back
Originally Posted By: CNC
Don't they inspect the yote scat to determine what its been eating?

Personally I don't know the regional scat inspector. But that would only indicate what they EAT, not what they killed.


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've not seen too many folks take the stance you're taking.


The Corn Crash!!!
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