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Re: Lab colors
[Re: CrappieKing]
#2060045
03/16/17 06:16 AM
03/16/17 06:16 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,723
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,723
Awbarn, AL
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Quesiton:…..Did the chocolate ones come from good blood lines like the black ones did or did they come from lines where folks where just trying to breed chocolate dogs to sell to the public because they’re pretty??
Maybe I just go lucky with mine but what I’m seeing out of her just doesn’t line up with what folks are saying that they’re dumb, crazy, no drive, etc….. She came from a really good working dog line. Granted now, I’m training mine to be a blood tracker but she’s been outstanding so far with everything we’ve worked on. She has learned her commands and obeys them just the same as my Kopov did and her drive is unlike any other dog I’ve been around. The biggest hurdle we’re trying to get over right now is actually due to her having SO MUCH drive. I picked her out of the litter over other black ones because she showed the most interest as a puppy in following a liver drag. Her nose and interest in it lit up compared to the other pups. It didn't have anything to do with her color.
Last edited by CNC; 03/16/17 06:20 AM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: CrappieKing]
#2060051
03/16/17 06:26 AM
03/16/17 06:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
Jwattsmojo
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
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maybe since yours is just blood trailing it doesn't really make any difference. I have t trained but two blood trailing dogs and with my experience is you want a nosey independent dog who will trust his nose and go with it. I'm the hunt test trial game both of those traits ( nosey and independent ) are terrible. Almost like a bomb dog. It's no difference from a horse. If you went and ran the Kentucky derby what would you want ? A thoroughbred or a Clydesdale. That's why most trainers prefer black dogs. They are proven and way more consistent. But at the same time if you like the big choc blocky head dog and it's your flavor then stick to it. Everybody has there own opinion but for somebody to speak that a choc dogs in general are just as good or better than a black dog shows there whole lack of knowledge of the breeding. I could care less how the dog looked long as he could go smack a master test consistently.
Last edited by Jwattsmojo; 03/16/17 06:27 AM.
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: CrappieKing]
#2060060
03/16/17 06:35 AM
03/16/17 06:35 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
Jwattsmojo
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
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And maybe your opinion on a smart driven dog is way different than mine. When I say smart I don't mean can he sit can he stay can he shake. Any dumb dog can be taught to do that. Is he smart enough to Recognize factors and how to fight them. Can he recognize suction and stay away? When I say drive I mean can he stretch out 300 yards and for one see a bird and two have the juice to go out there to get it and fight the factors on the way ( cover , terrain, trees, wind ) . My bet would be you have no clue what some of that means. That's my definition . And going back to what I said I don't mean to hurt anybody's feelings whatsoever. Just facing facts. Not everybody is in my venue and I realize that but that being said Most any trainer with any knowledge will tell you the same.
Last edited by Jwattsmojo; 03/16/17 06:37 AM.
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: CrappieKing]
#2060071
03/16/17 06:43 AM
03/16/17 06:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
Jwattsmojo
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
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I was saying that in regards to most people who buy choc buy for color and head ! Not geared specifically to you. I do not like publicly posting about dogs but had to intervean on this matter. Just because it's history and can be backed up with evidence
Last edited by Jwattsmojo; 03/16/17 06:47 AM.
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: Jwattsmojo]
#2060072
03/16/17 06:43 AM
03/16/17 06:43 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,723
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,723
Awbarn, AL
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My bet would be you have no clue what some of that means. You’re correct….I don’t know what some of those terms mean. I’m not really into playing fetch for a score.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: CrappieKing]
#2060082
03/16/17 06:50 AM
03/16/17 06:50 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,723
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,723
Awbarn, AL
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This is the point that I’m trying to get at. Lots of folks in this thread are just casting out generalities that a black dog is better than a chocolate dog. Now maybe there have been many more quality breedings of black dog lines than there have chocolate ones but just the color alone has nothing to do with it...does it? It is simply a color…..no?
Last edited by CNC; 03/16/17 06:51 AM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: Jwattsmojo]
#2060126
03/16/17 07:44 AM
03/16/17 07:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,723
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,723
Awbarn, AL
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When I say drive I mean can he stretch out 300 yards and for one see a bird and two have the juice to go out there to get it and fight the factors on the way ( cover , terrain, trees, wind ) . My bet would be you have no clue what some of that means. That's my definition . “Drive” to me in the tracking world is short for prey drive. The best way I know of explaining that would be to think about the look a cat gets in its eyes when it spots a bird or a mouse it wants to eat. It’s that intense instinctive behavior that makes them want to pursue the prey. Same with a wolf or the ancestors of the dog. When I think of drive in my hunting dog…..I’m thinking about how much of that natural instinct to pursue prey does it have bred into it. They say that Texas Blue Lacy’s actually had a coyote introduced into their bloodline in the beginning breedings to really increase their prey drive. You want the drive to be able follow a 12-24 hr old scent line for a mile… sometimes more..... and the focus to stay on that line for 1-2 hrs if need be.
Last edited by CNC; 03/16/17 07:46 AM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: Fishduck]
#2060225
03/16/17 09:31 AM
03/16/17 09:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
Jwattsmojo
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
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To understand the chocolate lab first requires a history lesson. Chocolate was not always a recognized lab color. The only recognized colors way back when were yellow and black. Breeders drowned the brown ones at birth and denied they even existed. The breeders kept it quiet and didn't breed the dogs that produced the color.
Fast forward 100 years and suddenly chocolate is a popular color. At first breeders producing chocolate pups simply bred for color. Any 2 dogs that produced chocolate pups were paired simply because chocolate puppies sold for more money. Black labs have never been more expensive than other dogs so they were always bred for traits other than color.
There are now several bloodlines of chocolate labs that are bred specifically for field work. These chocolate dogs are nice. I have judged a lot of these dogs and the talent and trainability seems to be on par with any other bloodline.
That being said, I personally purchase black labs. The price of chocolate puppies is still significantly more than black puppies for comparable pedigrees. Agreed here
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: CrappieKing]
#2060297
03/16/17 10:56 AM
03/16/17 10:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,216
Central Al
twaldrop4
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,216
Central Al
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So what your saying is the only way to have a real lab is to have a black dog and run hunt tests. Other than that they are sub par. Makes perfect sense
Last edited by twaldrop4; 03/16/17 10:57 AM.
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: CrappieKing]
#2060467
03/16/17 02:17 PM
03/16/17 02:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
Jwattsmojo
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
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You, obviously didn't read all of my post. I said everybody has there own wants In a dog but if you want to up your chances with a hunting dog or test dog then buy a black or yellow dog. Once again there are good choc breedings but very few. It's unresponsible breeders who wanted to make a quick buck to breed for looks and color, is why we have choc labs anyway.The working lab is being bred out. And that's WHAT they were bred for to work. These breeders have no clue if there dog is bred healthy or not and don't even know what a health clearance is. With all due respect.
Last edited by Jwattsmojo; 03/16/17 02:24 PM.
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: Jwattsmojo]
#2060521
03/16/17 03:00 PM
03/16/17 03:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,829
Back on the line
Solo
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,829
Back on the line
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What titles does your choc have and health clearances ? Also what is his 5 generation pedigree If you're talking to me, I'm not getting into a pissing match. I don't have his paperwork with me (in the middle of moving back to AL ad everything is packed up) but your welcome to swing by the farm in Boaz and watch him work.
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Re: Lab colors
[Re: CrappieKing]
#2060529
03/16/17 03:04 PM
03/16/17 03:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
Jwattsmojo
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 427
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So you don't know if he is eic Cnm clear or what his hips and elbows rated ? Or one choc dog in his pedigree. Prime example of the lack of knowledge. And I told you I have a choc female on my truck who has a master pass and HRCH before two years old. So how could I say they can't do the work she can. But most can't
Last edited by Jwattsmojo; 03/16/17 03:06 PM.
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