I was a Christian for many decades but no longer believe and can probably be considered an Agnostic. It was my parents, not the Church, who taught me right from wrong. But, the Church tried it's best to make me feel guilty about normal thoughts, feelings, and actions. I really caught it during my divorce. I learned that Christians can be some of the most judgmental and unforgiving people in the world.

I consider myself to be amoral, meaning being neither moral nor immoral. I would not steal from you and would probably risk my life to save your children from danger. But that comes from my internal code of ethics and not from a moral code. I have no problem with people drinking, gambling, and doing whatever as long as they don't break the law nor hurt others.

Many of you here appear to be devout Christians and more power to you. I've walked in those shoes and can teach a Sunday School lesson or Bible Study with the best of you. So, I really do understand you, way more than you will ever understand someone like me. I no longer believe the Bible so throwing verses at me and others like me has absolutely no effect.

Listen closely, you need to stop trying to work your way into Heaven. You need to study the Word for yourself and start paying attention to your own sinful actions/thoughts instead of worrying what your brother or sister is doing wrong. This whole discussion has the stench of the Pharisees. Look at Matthew 23:27 and examine your own heart before trying to bend others to your ideas of morality.

I try to live the life as a good Christian as best as I can but I fall short just like everyone else. But I would not want to live in a country where laws were created that would punish people based on what is considered moral by biblical standards.
Put people in jail or what ever the punishment would be for the following offenses.

Divorce
Taking the lords name in vain
Fornification
Adultery
Not treating your wife or husbands as the bible says you should.
Greed
Gluttony
Lust
Envy
Sloth
Wrath
Pride
If you break any of the 10 commandments.
Everybody on this board would have been or be in jail. If everything that was immoral according to the bible was illegal. Very few people would want to live in a place where you actually tried to legislate morality.

I was a Christian for many decades but no longer believe and can probably be considered an Agnostic. It was my parents, not the Church, who taught me right from wrong. But, the Church tried it's best to make me feel guilty about normal thoughts, feelings, and actions. I really caught it during my divorce. I learned that Christians can be some of the most judgmental and unforgiving people in the world.

I consider myself to be amoral, meaning being neither moral nor immoral. I would not steal from you and would probably risk my life to save your children from danger. But that comes from my internal code of ethics and not from a moral code. I have no problem with people drinking, gambling, and doing whatever as long as they don't break the law nor hurt others.

Many of you here appear to be devout Christians and more power to you. I've walked in those shoes and can teach a Sunday School lesson or Bible Study with the best of you. So, I really do understand you, way more than you will ever understand someone like me. I no longer believe the Bible so throwing verses at me and others like me has absolutely no effect.

Listen closely, you need to stop trying to work your way into Heaven. You need to study the Word for yourself and start paying attention to your own sinful actions/thoughts instead of worrying what your brother or sister is doing wrong. This whole discussion has the stench of the Pharisees. Look at Matthew 23:27 and examine your own heart before trying to bend others to your ideas of morality.

Interesting discussion. I'm not sure where I fall. I think there's a danger in trying to legislate your idea of morality because you don't always know who's going to be running things in the future. I think Muslims trying to institute their version of morality with Sharia law feel they're right to do so. When your idea of morality hinges solely on religious teachings, doesn't that leave the door open to acknowledge a different morality based on other religions? In this regard, I think our civil laws should be constructed independent of religion so all races, religions, and ethnicities can live under the same code. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

That's not wishful thinking. That's reality.

O.k. then where does morality even come from ?

That's not wishful thinking. That's reality.

[quote=whack-n-stack]
I said I wish we had a code independent of religion that all cultures could live by. I don't see that being the current reality. Heck, I'm not even sure it's possible.

You don't think there's lots of folks pushing for laws based on their religious beliefs? I said I wish we had a code independent of religion that all cultures could live by. I don't see that being the current reality. Heck, I'm not even sure it's possible.

We do have such a standard. It is called the Golden Rule in our society, but has different terms in other societies, but it is the closest thing to a universal code of conduct that we have.