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Re: I'm stocked up [Re: blumsden] #2001483
01/23/17 11:57 AM
01/23/17 11:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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poorcountrypreacher  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted By: blumsden
Question. Why are there no shell manufacturer's offering the TSS loads?


I believe the main reason is that the big companies don't believe they can make a profit from it. They would have to charge a high price and don't believe the market for them is big enough.

I'm surprised one of the smaller companies hasn't given it a try. One might try it eventually.

YS may be right about the liability issue being part of it, but if it is, I think it's based on perception instead of science. Federal already makes a 15g/cc shell, so the jump to 18 isn't that great as far as safety. The only real danger is that it can scratch your barrel, but proper wads make that unlikely. A tss load is no more likely to blow up in your face than a lead load. At least, that's the way I understand it. There are thousands of people shooting tss now, and I've never heard of an accident that had anything to do with its density or hardness. I could be wrong.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: YEKRUT] #2001717
01/23/17 03:00 PM
01/23/17 03:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,753
AL
Gobble4me757 Offline
10 point
Gobble4me757  Offline
10 point
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,753
AL

Originally Posted By: YEKRUT
Originally Posted By: Rockhound
I ordered enough last year to load 300 shells. I'm good



I plan on living longer than you apparently laugh


Or missing a lil more...lol


2017 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion
2018 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: Gobble4me757] #2001724
01/23/17 03:02 PM
01/23/17 03:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
YEKRUT Offline OP
Turkey Nut
YEKRUT  Offline OP
Turkey Nut
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
Originally Posted By: Gobble4me757

Originally Posted By: YEKRUT
Originally Posted By: Rockhound
I ordered enough last year to load 300 shells. I'm good



I plan on living longer than you apparently laugh


Or missing a lil more...lol


I don't even mention that word, ain't in my vocabulary. You should hit your knees right now and ask for forgiveness.


Some men are mere hunters; others are turkey hunters. —Archibald Rutledge—
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: YEKRUT] #2001832
01/23/17 04:00 PM
01/23/17 04:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 848
Land of dixie
R
Rockhound Offline
6 point
Rockhound  Offline
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R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 848
Land of dixie
Originally Posted By: YEKRUT
Originally Posted By: Gobble4me757

Originally Posted By: YEKRUT
Originally Posted By: Rockhound
I ordered enough last year to load 300 shells. I'm good



I plan on living longer than you apparently laugh


Or missing a lil more...lol


I don't even mention that word, ain't in my vocabulary. You should hit your knees right now and ask for forgiveness.


I still had about 70 left over from the previouss 2 years lol I'll probably order some more eventually to load some coyotes loads

Re: I'm stocked up [Re: YEKRUT] #2001848
01/23/17 04:09 PM
01/23/17 04:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,753
AL
Gobble4me757 Offline
10 point
Gobble4me757  Offline
10 point
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,753
AL

Originally Posted By: YEKRUT
Originally Posted By: Gobble4me757

Originally Posted By: YEKRUT
Originally Posted By: Rockhound
I ordered enough last year to load 300 shells. I'm good



I plan on living longer than you apparently laugh


Or missing a lil more...lol


I don't even mention that word, ain't in my vocabulary. You should hit your knees right now and ask for forgiveness.


We're not worthy...not worthy (tried to paste the Wayne's world gif to no avail ha)


2017 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion
2018 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: Yelp softly] #2001897
01/23/17 04:28 PM
01/23/17 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 121
Over Yonder
01Foreman400 Offline
3 point
01Foreman400  Offline
3 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 121
Over Yonder
Originally Posted By: Yelp softly
Originally Posted By: blumsden
Question. Why are there no shell manufacturer's offering the TSS loads?


This question is asked every year and no one knows definitively why. Here's my best guess based on what I think I know. Years ago I bought a Comp-N-Choke for my Benelli M1. After not getting the results I had hoped for during patterning, I called them and spoke to the owner Charlie Boswell. In that conversation I asked about some of the heavier than lead loads. He basically told me that he couldn't legally recommend it. If I recall correctly it was due to the shot being a stronger alloy than the choke. I am not a physics expert but when two metals contact each other enough, the weaker metal will eventually give. When the barrel is made of softer metal than the shot being used, one has to wonder how many times it can safely be fired until a material failure occurs.

My guess is that corporate lawyers have told the shotshell manufacturers that if an accident ever happens and they are sued, they are probably 99% sure to lose the lawsuit. One lawsuit could wipe out 20 years worth of profits. It doesn't make sense to offer it from that standpoint.


Hevi-shot, steel and Heavy Weights all will mess a barrel up if not loaded properly. I think the biggest reason for no one loading TSS commercially is because of the price.


Huntin' Fool
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: 01Foreman400] #2001923
01/23/17 04:36 PM
01/23/17 04:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,842
Montgomery / Luverne
crenshawco Offline
Booner
crenshawco  Offline
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Montgomery / Luverne
Originally Posted By: 01Foreman400
Originally Posted By: Yelp softly
Originally Posted By: blumsden
Question. Why are there no shell manufacturer's offering the TSS loads?


This question is asked every year and no one knows definitively why. Here's my best guess based on what I think I know. Years ago I bought a Comp-N-Choke for my Benelli M1. After not getting the results I had hoped for during patterning, I called them and spoke to the owner Charlie Boswell. In that conversation I asked about some of the heavier than lead loads. He basically told me that he couldn't legally recommend it. If I recall correctly it was due to the shot being a stronger alloy than the choke. I am not a physics expert but when two metals contact each other enough, the weaker metal will eventually give. When the barrel is made of softer metal than the shot being used, one has to wonder how many times it can safely be fired until a material failure occurs.

My guess is that corporate lawyers have told the shotshell manufacturers that if an accident ever happens and they are sued, they are probably 99% sure to lose the lawsuit. One lawsuit could wipe out 20 years worth of profits. It doesn't make sense to offer it from that standpoint.


Hevi-shot, steel and Heavy Weights all will mess a barrel up if not loaded properly. I think the biggest reason for no one loading TSS commercially is because of the price.


X2

Re: I'm stocked up [Re: YEKRUT] #2001937
01/23/17 04:39 PM
01/23/17 04:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 121
Over Yonder
01Foreman400 Offline
3 point
01Foreman400  Offline
3 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 121
Over Yonder
I've been stocking up for several years now on components. You never know when they might stop making something like the VP90 wads. This was my first order 3 years ago. Been a lot more since then.



Huntin' Fool
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: 01Foreman400] #2001990
01/23/17 04:55 PM
01/23/17 04:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,921
Huntsville
B
buckbrush Offline
10 point
buckbrush  Offline
10 point
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,921
Huntsville

Originally Posted By: 01Foreman400
I've been stocking up for several years now on components. You never know when they might stop making something like the VP90 wads. This was my first order 3 years ago. Been a lot more since then.



I was about to say I remember my first order lol.


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: YEKRUT] #2002014
01/23/17 05:02 PM
01/23/17 05:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
YEKRUT Offline OP
Turkey Nut
YEKRUT  Offline OP
Turkey Nut
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
You planning on dove hunting with tss? Lol


Some men are mere hunters; others are turkey hunters. —Archibald Rutledge—
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2003330
01/24/17 03:44 PM
01/24/17 03:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
Y
Yelp softly Offline
10 point
Yelp softly  Offline
10 point
Y
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: blumsden
Question. Why are there no shell manufacturer's offering the TSS loads?


I believe the main reason is that the big companies don't believe they can make a profit from it. They would have to charge a high price and don't believe the market for them is big enough.

I'm surprised one of the smaller companies hasn't given it a try. One might try it eventually.

YS may be right about the liability issue being part of it, but if it is, I think it's based on perception instead of science. Federal already makes a 15g/cc shell, so the jump to 18 isn't that great as far as safety. The only real danger is that it can scratch your barrel, but proper wads make that unlikely. A tss load is no more likely to blow up in your face than a lead load. At least, that's the way I understand it. There are thousands of people shooting tss now, and I've never heard of an accident that had anything to do with its density or hardness. I could be wrong.


PCP, just to clarify, the numbers you posted 15g/cc and 18g/cc are density measurements. Those numbers have no bearing on the strength of the alloy. For instance, lead is a very dense metal, but you'd never use it for building because its soft, not strong. I have never seen a hardness measurement on any of the alloys used in heavyweight shot. Will the Federal Heavyweight shot score a barrel? I have no idea. It might. I don't know what its Rockwell hardness is. I just know that I've read that the TSS is a very hard alloy.


"When there was no fowl, we ate crawdad, when there was no crawdad, we ate sand."

"YOU ATE SAND!" - Raising Arizona
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: Yelp softly] #2003346
01/24/17 03:56 PM
01/24/17 03:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,501
Central, Al
Bustinbeards Offline
Booner
Bustinbeards  Offline
Booner
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,501
Central, Al
Originally Posted By: Yelp softly
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: blumsden
Question. Why are there no shell manufacturer's offering the TSS loads?


I believe the main reason is that the big companies don't believe they can make a profit from it. They would have to charge a high price and don't believe the market for them is big enough.

I'm surprised one of the smaller companies hasn't given it a try. One might try it eventually.

YS may be right about the liability issue being part of it, but if it is, I think it's based on perception instead of science. Federal already makes a 15g/cc shell, so the jump to 18 isn't that great as far as safety. The only real danger is that it can scratch your barrel, but proper wads make that unlikely. A tss load is no more likely to blow up in your face than a lead load. At least, that's the way I understand it. There are thousands of people shooting tss now, and I've never heard of an accident that had anything to do with its density or hardness. I could be wrong.


PCP, just to clarify, the numbers you posted 15g/cc and 18g/cc are density measurements. Those numbers have no bearing on the strength of the alloy. For instance, lead is a very dense metal, but you'd never use it for building because its soft, not strong. I have never seen a hardness measurement on any of the alloys used in heavyweight shot. Will the Federal Heavyweight shot score a barrel? I have no idea. It might. I don't know what its Rockwell hardness is. I just know that I've read that the TSS is a very hard alloy.
I am no expert by any means and I could be wrong, but with a Mylar wrap and the correct wads I just don't see how the shot could touch the barrel. Now with wad stripper chokes I could see maybe possibly the choke contacting some errant shot. Maybe Hal has some insight, I could imagine he's shot more TSS than most of us ever will.


Originally Posted By: Wiley Coyote
Well, the way I see it is there's just too many assholes
On a good day there's a bunch of assholes in here. On a bad day there's too many assholes in here.
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: Bustinbeards] #2003993
01/25/17 05:28 AM
01/25/17 05:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
YS, you are right, and I shouldn't have worded that the way I did, and I might be making a false assumption. I do know that when hevishot first came out there was a lot of concern that it was harder than lead and was gonna scratch barrels. One choke manufacturer warned not to use it in his chokes. 15 years later, I never hear it mentioned. Hevishot is only about 12g/cc.

Kyle Smith warned that tss was even harder and had all sorts of disclaimers on his site that he was not responsible for a scratched barrel. I have heard people say they have seen scratched chokes, but never heard of a barrel being scratched. For me to assume that the 15g shot Federal uses is in between the hardness of hevishot and tss might indeed be wrong, and thanks for pointing it out. Maybe Hal will read the thread and tell us.

But I still don't think a properly tested tss load is any more dangerous to the user than a lead load. Again, I could be wrong.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: YEKRUT] #2004222
01/25/17 08:37 AM
01/25/17 08:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,018
Hartselle Al.
n2deer Offline
Old Mossy Horns
n2deer  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,018
Hartselle Al.
I have seen a few scratches in my chokes. But I do also in anything I shot hevi in much.


Do you want to hear him gobble, or do you want to kill him.
Re: I'm stocked up [Re: YEKRUT] #2004342
01/25/17 10:08 AM
01/25/17 10:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,044
NC
hawglips Offline
6 point
hawglips  Offline
6 point
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,044
NC
TSS is a bit harder than the 15g/cc I've done the pliers test on.

grin

But it can vary some, and not sure there is any sort of official hardness scale for it.

Re: I'm stocked up [Re: YEKRUT] #2005043
01/25/17 11:05 PM
01/25/17 11:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,921
Huntsville
B
buckbrush Offline
10 point
buckbrush  Offline
10 point
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,921
Huntsville
N2deer I bet our Mets could do a hardness scale.


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
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