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Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986887
01/11/17 06:35 AM
01/11/17 06:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,839
Mobile, AL
S
SouthBamaSlayer Offline
Gary's Fluffer
SouthBamaSlayer  Offline
Gary's Fluffer
S
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,839
Mobile, AL
Females contribute around 50.7% of the DNA to an offspring.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: timbercruiser] #1986914
01/11/17 06:50 AM
01/11/17 06:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
B
blumsden Offline
12 point
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B
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Lincoln, Alabama
Originally Posted By: timbercruiser
I've heard that shooting culls won't help, especially on here, but on my land in Pike county I had a big problem with spike on one side bucks so I started shooting every one I could see about 18 years ago. I havn't seen a SOOS buck in the past three years either in a plot or in the thousands of pictures of deer I get at my feeders. Maybe the SOOS bucks migrated somewhere else. I also shoot all bucks without brow tines.

From what ive read, SOOS bucks are bucks who have a pedicle injury and can't pass that on genetically to other deer, it comes from bucks fighting and an injury to the pedicle of the skull. That deer will always carry that trait on that side, so if you had 3 deer with that injury and you shot them that would certainly have eliminated you seeing anymore deer like that. Hope that makes sense.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986928
01/11/17 07:00 AM
01/11/17 07:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
Booger Offline
Picker
Booger  Offline
Picker
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
Shooting a buck and claiming it is a cull buck is just a hunters way of pulling the trigger on a small buck and justifying their lack of trigger restraint. If it's a legal deer and your club allows you to shoot it then shoot it and be happy. If you know your going to have to justify the kill with the "it was a cull buck" excuse then don't shoot it.


Pick'n and a grin'n
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Booger] #1986947
01/11/17 07:11 AM
01/11/17 07:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,635
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
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Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted By: Booger
Shooting a buck and claiming it is a cull buck is just a hunters way of pulling the trigger on a small buck and justifying their lack of trigger restraint. If it's a legal deer and your club allows you to shoot it then shoot it and be happy. If you know your going to have to justify the kill with the "it was a cull buck" excuse then don't shoot it.
Pretty much what I was trying to say, but Booger said it much more succinctly.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: jawbone] #1986962
01/11/17 07:23 AM
01/11/17 07:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
Booger Offline
Picker
Booger  Offline
Picker
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
Originally Posted By: jawbone
Originally Posted By: Booger
Shooting a buck and claiming it is a cull buck is just a hunters way of pulling the trigger on a small buck and justifying their lack of trigger restraint. If it's a legal deer and your club allows you to shoot it then shoot it and be happy. If you know your going to have to justify the kill with the "it was a cull buck" excuse then don't shoot it.
Pretty much what I was trying to say, but Booger said it much more succinctly.


That's what she said. smile


Pick'n and a grin'n
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986967
01/11/17 07:26 AM
01/11/17 07:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
Booger Offline
Picker
Booger  Offline
Picker
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,863
Tuscaloosa
Hey Jawbone, I just looked up the definition of succinctly, and that is not what she said. smile


Pick'n and a grin'n
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1987033
01/11/17 08:14 AM
01/11/17 08:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
i pretty much with yall BUUUUUT , a doe don't breed say four/five other does for say two/three years .

so why let a piss poor buck breed ? i can see where it can make a difference by just the numbers .

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1987037
01/11/17 08:18 AM
01/11/17 08:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
let me ask y'all this . what harm does it do to kill a true cull buck ?

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Frankie] #1987070
01/11/17 08:42 AM
01/11/17 08:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,593
Lake View, AL
Joe4majors Online content OP
14 point
Joe4majors  Online Content OP
14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,593
Lake View, AL
Originally Posted By: Frankie
let me ask y'all this . what harm does it do to kill a true cull buck ?


My argument is that killing a "true cull buck" doesn't do a ton of good. The idea that this buck is going around corrupting the gene pool ("owning all the does") is ridiculous. My concern is that this mindset is going to result in folks shooting young "imperfect" racked deer claiming it's a cull, when some high percentage of them would have grown into nice mature buck if they had the chance to mature. How do you accurately define a "true cull buck?" Seems to me you wouldn't know for sure until they are already mature. If you want to shoot a mature buck with a messed up rack, do so by all means, I just don't think any significant improvement to the deer herd has occurred.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1987112
01/11/17 09:07 AM
01/11/17 09:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
Originally Posted By: Frankie
let me ask y'all this . what harm does it do to kill a true cull buck ?


My argument is that killing a "true cull buck" doesn't do a ton of good. The idea that this buck is going around corrupting the gene pool ("owning all the does") is ridiculous. My concern is that this mindset is going to result in folks shooting young "imperfect" racked deer claiming it's a cull, when some high percentage of them would have grown into nice mature buck if they had the chance to mature. How do you accurately define a "true cull buck?" Seems to me you wouldn't know for sure until they are already mature. If you want to shoot a mature buck with a messed up rack, do so by all means, I just don't think any significant improvement to the deer herd has occurred.


my point ,,, it wont hurt it either . if you have better looking bucks let them breed

this is what i would define as a cull buck .>>>>>>







Last edited by Frankie; 01/11/17 09:09 AM.
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1987120
01/11/17 09:12 AM
01/11/17 09:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,449
A
abolt300 Offline
Booner
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Booner
A
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Posts: 10,449
We cull all 3 or 3+ year old bucks not exhibiting anything in the way of brow tines. Nothing else is considered for a cull because it is just too hard to determine if an injury caused the antler deformation. IMO if a buck does not have brows by 3, he wont ever have them and whether or not he carries the genetic to pass on or it came from his momma doesnt matter. He's using up food and resources that better deer can consume.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Frankie] #1987121
01/11/17 09:12 AM
01/11/17 09:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,635
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,635
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted By: Frankie
let me ask y'all this . what harm does it do to kill a true cull buck ?


"True cull buck". This would have to be an old deer that we know will never get much, if any, better. The problem is not many people are able to discern this, especially in the field. First they have to be able to age him and secondly, they have to know he wasn't just having a bad year through sickness or injury that he can recover from. Now, there is not really any harm in killing him if you know for he meets the criteria for certain, except my point that someone would be proud to kill him. Save him for those people if it means nothing to you to kill him.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Frankie] #1987137
01/11/17 09:22 AM
01/11/17 09:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,593
Lake View, AL
Joe4majors Online content OP
14 point
Joe4majors  Online Content OP
14 point
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Posts: 6,593
Lake View, AL
Originally Posted By: Frankie
Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
Originally Posted By: Frankie
let me ask y'all this . what harm does it do to kill a true cull buck ?


My argument is that killing a "true cull buck" doesn't do a ton of good. The idea that this buck is going around corrupting the gene pool ("owning all the does") is ridiculous. My concern is that this mindset is going to result in folks shooting young "imperfect" racked deer claiming it's a cull, when some high percentage of them would have grown into nice mature buck if they had the chance to mature. How do you accurately define a "true cull buck?" Seems to me you wouldn't know for sure until they are already mature. If you want to shoot a mature buck with a messed up rack, do so by all means, I just don't think any significant improvement to the deer herd has occurred.


my point ,,, it wont hurt it either . if you have better looking bucks let them breed

this is what i would define as a cull buck .>>>>>>








My point is that 4 out of 5 hunters won't shoot a "true cull buck" because they can't judge off the hoof like jawbone stated. The harm is young deer get shot that would have been "better looking bucks" the next year.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1987249
01/11/17 10:44 AM
01/11/17 10:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
ikillbux Offline
ishootatbux
ikillbux  Offline
ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
We're assuming with certainty that even if that buck in Frankie's picture breeds does that all the fawns will be just like that. I don't know, but when considering genetics, oftentimes recessive genes in one generation become dominant in the next (and flip flop). My dad is 6'-4" / 280#, his father was similar build. My maternal granddad was 6'-2" / 250ish. I am 5'-11" and 175. I have a daughter that is taller and lean, the other is very short and stockier built. And we're all from the same genes.


We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: ikillbux] #1987344
01/11/17 11:58 AM
01/11/17 11:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,251
coffee county
goodman_hunter Offline
Booner
goodman_hunter  Offline
Booner
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Posts: 10,251
coffee county
Originally Posted By: ikillbux
Originally Posted By: Squadron77
So injury, food source or sickness will not affect the growth of a rack? There are more things that can cause a bad rack than genetics. If you kill a buck with a bad rack you may be killing the most perfect genetic buck in your herd.


Preach!


shouldnt effect the herd though, if its true for one end of the spectrum. Its true for the other, Right? If i kill good bucks when there 2-3 years old. It really has no effect, because I'm not gonna kill all of them. So therfore I would still have mature good genetics bucks to hunt as well. Right?


For without victory, there is no survival
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1987389
01/11/17 12:44 PM
01/11/17 12:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
Originally Posted By: Frankie
Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
Originally Posted By: Frankie
let me ask y'all this . what harm does it do to kill a true cull buck ?


My argument is that killing a "true cull buck" doesn't do a ton of good. The idea that this buck is going around corrupting the gene pool ("owning all the does") is ridiculous. My concern is that this mindset is going to result in folks shooting young "imperfect" racked deer claiming it's a cull, when some high percentage of them would have grown into nice mature buck if they had the chance to mature. How do you accurately define a "true cull buck?" Seems to me you wouldn't know for sure until they are already mature. If you want to shoot a mature buck with a messed up rack, do so by all means, I just don't think any significant improvement to the deer herd has occurred.


my point ,,, it wont hurt it either . if you have better looking bucks let them breed

this is what i would define as a cull buck .>>>>>>








My point is that 4 out of 5 hunters won't shoot a "true cull buck" because they can't judge off the hoof like jawbone stated. The harm is young deer get shot that would have been "better looking bucks" the next year.


i got you that's true but it would harm nothing if a true cull buck was killed .

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1987390
01/11/17 12:45 PM
01/11/17 12:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 25,325
Tampa
B
Beer Belly Offline
Freak of Nature
Beer Belly  Offline
Freak of Nature
B
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 25,325
Tampa

I thought that Does had more impact on antler genetics than do bucks.


--------------
For what it is worth: I still agree with me!
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Re: How accurate is this? [Re: ikillbux] #1987392
01/11/17 12:46 PM
01/11/17 12:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Originally Posted By: ikillbux
We're assuming with certainty that even if that buck in Frankie's picture breeds does that all the fawns will be just like that. I don't know, but when considering genetics, oftentimes recessive genes in one generation become dominant in the next (and flip flop). My dad is 6'-4" / 280#, his father was similar build. My maternal granddad was 6'-2" / 250ish. I am 5'-11" and 175. I have a daughter that is taller and lean, the other is very short and stockier built. And we're all from the same genes.


you right but why chance it. if you have better looking buck i'd rather chance it they put out good ones

Last edited by Frankie; 01/11/17 12:54 PM.
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1987399
01/11/17 12:50 PM
01/11/17 12:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 800
Pensacola, FL
J
JUSTIN37HUNT Offline
6 point
JUSTIN37HUNT  Offline
6 point
J
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 800
Pensacola, FL
Good comments.

But one thing... a doe passes her genes to 5-10 offspring in a lifetime.
(One to two offspring for 5 reproductive years)

A buck may pass his to many many more. Say 30 offspring.
(3 does per season at two offspring per doe for 5 years)

So that's a pretty significant difference. But that also assumes you catch this "cull" at a young age.

All that said, you do have to give credit to the OP quote concerning home territory etc. If you let a true cull camp out on your property, there's the potential he's running off better bucks with better genetics. He's also consuming some value of your properties best resources. The significance of these two things on your property can vary from person to person, but I think it's still a valid point.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1987403
01/11/17 12:52 PM
01/11/17 12:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
i tried my damnest to kill this one for two years . lol


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