This was what prompted my second question about the boundaries.

I'd be livid if this happened, especially after having flagged-sprayed the boundary lines.

As for controlling trees where they fall, isn't that the skill a good timber crew has that you're (in part) paying for? Seems like if possible they would want to cut trees to make the rest of the crew's work faster, more efficient and such.

I'm with rebelman, never heard of a fudge zone. You cut to the line. There is a line for a reason.

the timber behind my house was marked (flagged) by a survey crew. it should be marked by the forester before cutting - normally, spray paint will define the line. a good crew can put a tree where it needs to go when felling.

when the crew was working close to my house, i talked with the rep from the company buying the timber and made a deal with him to remove some pines from my yard. in exchange for the timber, when the dozer man came to fix the roads, he would clear some property line for me. i still lost in the end of this deal but i got some pines removed. they all went to the lumber mill in mobile, not to the chip mill in cantonment or to the pole mill.

the dozer man did a fine job with the water bars and breaks and fixed a bunch of leftover stuff from year's prior. the road was real nice for the first year.

Biggest problem we have is them leaving tops all in the secondary roads and littering.

You would think the map and marker tape would have saved our stuff.....just cover your self and hold them accountable.
The trash from the crews and the lack of accountability reminds me a lot of GC's!

We've had a lot of cutting on our club land in the past few years. They have been fairly good about maintaining/fixing the roads, however they have DEMOLISHED every green field in their cutting area. They have left large ruts, many many limbs, bark, and wood, etc on the fields. They did a pretty good job in protecting ladder stands near the boundaries and the shooting houses on the fields. Sure am glad when they finish and get out!

We have a standard contract we go by. Everything from road conditions, to fires, to trash, what can be cut and not cut, etc. If it we have an easement to our property, they have to get their own, has always ended up being the same as ours but hopefully removes us from dealing with a problem on someone elses property. It is bidded out. They receive a copy of the contract well before the bid date. If they don't like it, don't bid.

As far as the 5 gal. buckets of hydraulic fluid, just fix your dang leaks. Today, probably to wet in some places they are cutting. Good day to fix equipment.

A subject close to my heart because the forest products industry the food on my family's table. As with any profession their are good and bad. A few things that anyone associated with a timber harvest (landowner or lease holder) should keep in mind:

1. Landowners- always have a written contract and include a performance bond in the contract. As others have stated any special provisions should be spelled out here (road conditions, food plot usage, a map with well defined harvest boundaries, timing, required notifications etc...). All come with potential cost for the contractor so it extra ordinary requests can impact your timber income.

2. It is very difficult to see and judge distance when operating heavy equipment in thick woods. Logging is dangerous. Remove all your portable stands, cameras etc... you may know the woods like the back of your hand but the logging crew doesn't.

3. Heavy equipment and log trucks are rough on roads. Don't expect your roads to be returned to normal usable condition until the harvest is completed. Keep in mind that many times the logging crew doesn't do the road work (it is handled by a separate road contractor). It can take time and the right weather conditions before road work is completed.

4. There are literally thousands of tons of mostly unusable debris generated during a logging operation and it will take time for this organic matter to decompose. Which is what you want to maintain soil quality.

5. Have realistic expectations. Logging margins are thin and they don't get paid until products are delivered to the mill. They aren't landscaping crews that get paid by the hour to manicure your lawn. Time, production and efficiency are money. Loggers often have big payments for all that equipment (sometimes 7 figures).

Finally please keep in mind the forest industry is part of what makes our country great. Mostly hardworking folks who provide raw materials the go into real products that make all of our lives better. It is perhaps the single largest industry in our state, provides thousands of jobs and gives many of us access to hunting land that we might not otherwise have.

Sorry for the long post but as stated above the forest industry puts food on my table and I've dedicated nearly my whole adult life to it.

Loggers don't care about your grasspatches, stands, cameras, shooting houses or anything else. All they wanna do is make a fortune off your property. Also they work holidays because they don't pay their men to be off nor do they give a chitt about their men, so while they are working holidays you are off on trying to hunt they are riding around on some wore out azz equipment trying to make a very few dollars to support themselves and family if they have any. And another thing look at what the owners drive and ride in and live in, and they claim no money is in logging, my azz.

Thanks for your insights, ALDawg!

VT - did you own the land they were cutting?

I've never been part of a contract that didn't say roads are to be returned to present condition. They usually do ok on the main roads, but firelanes and secondary roads are always gonna be messed up to some extent. Back in the 90s I could write most anything into a contact and people would still bid on it. Now, it is difficult to find anyone to cut my timber at all. Try to get a performance bond on a small tract and that will probably mean the timber doesn't get cut.

Still, it they are cutting your land you can always fuss and complain and get some kinda results. Where I have the biggest problems is when loggers for someone else need to cross my property to cut a tract belonging to someone else. Loggers don't pay too much attention to the landowner; they don't pay any attention to someone who is not the landowner.

I've often said I have a give and take relationship with one of the paper companies in my area - I give and they take.

It's just part of the timber business. Might as well accept it.

They trespassed on you to get to someone else's property?

And this is common? How the heck does this happen and nothing is done about it?

Ouch !

I cannot stress enough that any business dealing should be handled in writing with very clear expectations...this includes temporary access. Keep in mind all persons "see" and remember specifics differently. In many occasions we have used video to document road conditions prior to using a road so that all parties can protect their interests.

I'm sorry so many folks have such a bad opinion of our industry. I can't change that. But to address Reloader79's comments. We work holidays because we "have to" not because we want to. Being in the woods isn't a hobby it's my living. Believe me when I say I'd much rather be with my family or hunting If loggers were "making a fortune" I can assure you there would be no need to work weekends and holidays. Not real sure if I should have empathy for someone whose weekend or holiday hunt is disrupted because I have to be at work? But I do because I know how important it is to most of use on this board including myself. Most individuals couldn't sleep at night if they carried as much debt to run their business as loggers do. There's no guaranteed pay check. If you don't produce you don't get paid and you don't get forgiveness for that 7 figure debt.

Those nice trucks you see are a business expense. Not quite the same as a personal vehicle. Most of the folks I know will buy a nice truck because they have customers who ride with them AND it's not unusual to put 60K work miles on a vehicle.

All professions have bad apples that spoil the bunch. And the reality is money is the key driver. If the money was easy to come by many of the things that people have problems with wouldn't happen.

Video is a good idea. Great tip.

Lord help. Loggers are like farmers. They have to work when Mother Nature allows them to work.

Money drives everything ALDog. I know lots of loggers and owners of logging companies and I know how they operate and pay. It's all a big tax write off in the end game. If there wasn't big dollars in it then how do they afford the 200-300k pieces of equipment? and million dollar homes, boats, side by sides , you name it and some of them got it. You may pull the wool over some folks eyes but not me ole buddy. And they expect the poor folks working for them to work from daylight to dark with minimum pay and 0 benefits or holidays.

From my experience with loggers is worked out like this. The timber buyer blows a ton of smoke to get on the property, they wont make a mess and fix it if they do etc. Then he cuts you a check and sends the logging outfit in there. And thats where not one shat is given any more. Once they get what they wanted they're out and your left with the mess and damage. From what I've seen you have a few good loggers and timber buyers but 90% of them fall into the above mentioned category. Which i put in the same boat as lawyers and car sales men. My grandpaw had a crew come in and select cut the pines when pine Beatles first became a problem. Those guys had 2 huge draft horses and a mule. They did a great job very clean and low impact. The only hardwoods they cut was the ones that the skidders damaged before that crew was told to leave.

Well dang. Some of y'all got some sand in your drawers.

Either the the loggers I've dealt with are the worlds best or ya'lls are the worst.