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Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread #1943641
12/06/16 12:23 PM
12/06/16 12:23 PM
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Over Yonder
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Clem Offline OP
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Didn't want to sidesswipe BigT's timber thread but I have a question:

When you guys who cut timber or those who have had it cut agree on the contract, is it typical to have in the contract or include some clause about post-cutting cleanup and such?

Some of the posters on BigT's thread mentioned their property (or the property they hunted) having been torn up badly, roads messed up and whatnot.

Is this something the owner and timber crew can agree on to satisfaction in some way before signing the deal? Roads must be "returned to usable-drivable conditions" or "trash piles (brush, limbs) must be in x-area(s) only" and whatnot?


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943652
12/06/16 12:33 PM
12/06/16 12:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
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Yelp softly Offline
10 point
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Central Alabama
I'm under the impression that almost anything can be put in the contract. That being said, you're going to pay for it with a lower payment from the timber harvest.


"When there was no fowl, we ate crawdad, when there was no crawdad, we ate sand."

"YOU ATE SAND!" - Raising Arizona
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943668
12/06/16 12:43 PM
12/06/16 12:43 PM
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Montgomery, AL
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Forrestgump1 Offline
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Montgomery, AL
What yelp said. I'd also like to add that if you were to have in the contract that roads should be returned to drivable condition, that that would be extremely vague and you may still walk away a little disappointed.

Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943673
12/06/16 12:45 PM
12/06/16 12:45 PM
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I guess drivable would be what the landowner specifies and/or wants, most likely for at least a 4WD truck if not 2WD. No giant ruts, blowouts, etc., left from big trucks and/or tractors.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943694
12/06/16 01:10 PM
12/06/16 01:10 PM
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RustyShackleford Offline
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Yelp hit the nail on the head.

I would say one of the biggest problem or issue is unhealthy expectations by landowners. Some think they ought to get a 2 lane graveled highway without paying for it.

The best thing to do as a landowner is layout expectations and intention to the forester or logger prior to signing anything(and certainly prior to the cutter rolling of the low boy) so everybody is on the same page

Last edited by RustyShackleford; 12/06/16 01:13 PM.
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943702
12/06/16 01:13 PM
12/06/16 01:13 PM
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Clem Offline OP
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Yeah, well, that's silly of course. Some would think that, though, I'm sure.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943718
12/06/16 01:28 PM
12/06/16 01:28 PM
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Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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Put whatever is near and dear to you in the contract. The only folks that think a logging site looks good are those making $. Landowners that haven't been around logging can get a heck of a shock on a good site.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943728
12/06/16 01:35 PM
12/06/16 01:35 PM
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Northport, Al.
BOFF Offline
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Collect a performance deposit on the roads and the condition to be returned in.

If the roads, turnouts and other things in the contract are not cleaned up, the deposit is not given back.

The main thing is to get a reputable crew to do the work. Someone offering to pay a little more, if they do a sorry job, hurts you in the long and short run.

God Bless,
David B.


Premium member #8925
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Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943730
12/06/16 01:35 PM
12/06/16 01:35 PM
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The Boonies a.k.a. Pickens cou...
300gr Offline
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Have it in the contract no excessive rutting and existing roads and culverts are to be left in good usable condition.. If not it could cost you plenty to get it back to decent shape.


Two roads diverged in the woods and I took the one with deep ruts,hills and mud.It may be bumpy but WHAT A RIDE!
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943735
12/06/16 01:38 PM
12/06/16 01:38 PM
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North Alabama
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I'd retain 20% at least to get my roads back to where I wanted them.


I firmly believe that a double gallows should be constructed on the East Lawn of The White House. Politicians who willfully and shamelessly violate their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America should be swiftly tried and, upon conviction, publicly hanged at sunup the day after conviction. If multiple convicts are to be hanged they can choose with whom to share the gallows or names shall be drawn from the hangman's hat to be hanged 2 at a time.




NRA Life Member
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943744
12/06/16 01:47 PM
12/06/16 01:47 PM
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South Alabama
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Rebelman Offline
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Every contract that I've ever seen included language for the roads to be 'in as good of condition or better' within a certain time. Plus, here is a performance deposit to secure that provision.


Now, there are still a number of buyers who purchase timber with a hand shake agreement. But those are few and far between.

Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Rebelman] #1943759
12/06/16 02:04 PM
12/06/16 02:04 PM
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Clanton
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Originally Posted By: Rebelman
Every contract that I've ever seen included language for the roads to be 'in as good of condition or better' within a certain time. Plus, here is a performance deposit to secure that provision.


Now, there are still a number of buyers who purchase timber with a hand shake agreement. But those are few and far between.

That's what was in my contract and six months later I had to raise hell with my forester to get them usable again. Apparently they felt no access to fields or the woods rd I had was acceptable.


Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943801
12/06/16 02:32 PM
12/06/16 02:32 PM
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AL
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TwoRs Offline
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We had about 80 acres cut on the land I hunt this past May. Got the email that the work would be done in the next 2 months and here is the map of where we are cutting. " We may pick a few trees within about 20 yards of the area indicated".
The next week, Memorial Day weekend, we get the call that they are cutting and we had to move all stands and or foot bridges, that weekend! Yes they were cutting on the Holiday.
We were just there looking at what we needed to move and we're assured we had several weeks......
We made a haul as_ run and moved and or flagged everything in the mapped area. We go down after they finish and found cutting well outside of the marked area or 20 yard fudge zone, one foot bridge and one Milleium ladder stand 200 yards outside demolished!
Called the forester and left messages, no call returned. Sent emails with pictures, he finally replied, "we can't control trees when they fall"!
I am a family guest on this property so drama for the family is bad juju, pushing the forester to pay is not good for future hunting rights
Needless to say get it writing and keep a substantial retainage.

Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943854
12/06/16 03:10 PM
12/06/16 03:10 PM
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Over yonder
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extreme heights hunter Offline
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Over yonder
5 gallon hydraulic fluid jugs

Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943861
12/06/16 03:16 PM
12/06/16 03:16 PM
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Gulfcrest
bigt Offline
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They will fix the roads when they are done. My landowner has always been good about holding them accountable for that, but until they are through it is going to be ruff even with a 4x4.


Life is too short to be small !!

http://crshuntingclub.webs.com/
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: extreme heights hunter] #1943870
12/06/16 03:19 PM
12/06/16 03:19 PM
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Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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Originally Posted By: extreme heights hunter
5 gallon hydraulic fluid jugs


Ain't that the truth, good lawd those fellers run through some fluid. Never understood why they don't buy it in 55 gal drums.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943917
12/06/16 03:43 PM
12/06/16 03:43 PM
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chasing pirates
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property behind my house is two tracts, owned by same company. all land encompassed in those two tracts is divided into thirds by creeks. best right of way to the middle of the land is through my yard via my driveway. lets just say the pooch (me) got screwed on the first cutting back around '08. they never fixed my driveway or my culvert. i ended up calling the county to fix my culvert and pete fixed the driveway with the tractor and boxblade. i ate the cost of the rock and paid his brother to deliver it. had to stay on the driver's azzes (log trucks) about flying down the driveway at the house and fought the dust dragons for a month. verbal agreement - never again.

second time around, i made sure to have a contract to roll through my property and bring things back to their original state. think they cut again in '13 and '14. skidder got a game camera - i ate that one but shouldn't have. they had finished in the area and i put the camera back out. they decided to use the area again to drag the logs up into the area on the backside of a food plot. they got the camera going to the back of the plot. they caught a double man ladderstand that was flagged with pink tape that could be seen from outerspace. skidder driver said the tree he brought up was real big and the limbs were big as smaller trees. one of the limbs caught the ladder and twisted it around the tree. they paid for that one, not full price 'cause i bought it and let them reimburse me.

i had to put out trash cans or they would have left their breakfast/lunch garbage everywhere. hydraulic fluid buckets were everywhere and they got most of those. all toll, there were 3 different crews that worked the last cutting and the first crew in there, ended his business on this contract - it retired him.

got full payment for my driveway and used everybit of the money to bring in trucks of sandy clay base and also several trucks of b-base bahama rock.

the loggers would come in early and stay late but it's just something to deal with.

what was left of a stealth cam (battery box was slightly crushed but still usable, just not waterproof anylonger):




i was sitting in a tripod and took this picture early one morning.


they parked this in front of the shooting house for a couple of days.

Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943933
12/06/16 03:51 PM
12/06/16 03:51 PM
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Over Yonder
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Clem Offline OP
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Geez, VT. A story like that makes me almost want to burn everything.

And they parked that in front of the stand on purpose. Damned well knew what they were doing.


SECOND QUESTION:

With these buffer zones and/or 20-foot 'fudge zones' they have, do y'all go out during the cutting and check on these areas? Put up any kind of flagging tape or spray paint like blaze orange to signify the boundary?

Reminds me of building our house and advice I got: go there every day to walk, look, make notes and talk with the contractor.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943955
12/06/16 03:54 PM
12/06/16 03:54 PM
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PDL, Fl
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timbercruiser Offline
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You can put anything you want to in a timber contract, if the buyer has a problem with your request he can either agree to abide or you can contract with someone else. If your waterways have limbs and crap in them that interfere with the water drainage and they won't clean it up then call the Alabama Forestry Commission. Same thing with the trash and 5 gallon buckets, if they leave them and won't clean it up then call the Alabama Forestry Commission.

Re: Spinoff from BigT's Timber Cutting thread [Re: Clem] #1943964
12/06/16 03:56 PM
12/06/16 03:56 PM
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South Alabama
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Rebelman Offline
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This is the first I've heard of a fudge zone. Never seen that in a contract.

The area is defined before hand. Sometimes flagged bust most of the time painted. Most forest certifications require periodic compliance checks during harvesting. Industry standard is one check per week.

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