I didn't want to completely hi-jack Mully's thread......What age do y'all think is old enough to start training with an e-collar? My lab puppy is about to be 6 months old and I've only been letting her wear the Alpha unit so far and training her to come to the tone. I haven't introduced any kind of correction. Otis was well over a year old before I ever got the Alpha and introduced him to it. He already knew many commands by then and he took right to it. I'm wondering if I should wait another 6 months before introducing it to my lab at around a year old.

I waited till my Mal Taz was a year old before any correction was used. Used it one time to "out" her on a bite command, never had to use it again. She was a little hesitant on her next bite command, took a couple times to get her back to speed, but she "outed" on a verbal right off the next try. If she got to showing her butt I'd just go get the collar and show it to her...bingo!!

Mals are funny in that they already have a set punishment they will take for a known to them transgression. Overdo it and they will sometimes just shut down. Takes an easy/cautious hand with an e collar on them. All dogs, however, are not that sensitive. Thankgoodness.

I take a dog through basic obedience around 6 months and then collar condition afterwards. Collar conditioning teaches the dog how to turn off the e-collar pressure when it is applied. I condition the dogs I train to the sit and here commands. The first time I use the collar in training is during force fetch on the table after the dog has gone through either ear pinch or toe pinch. Some very well known trainers collar condition after force fetch is complete. It's really just personal preference when conditioning is done but it is imperative this is completed before training with the e-collar. Another personal preference thing with me is I never use tone. If a dog does something that needs to be corrected he needs to know he is being corrected and I personally don't see tone bringing a lasting solution to the problem being addressed.

I agree with most of that I only use tone to call my dogs to me. Just think of it as reinforcement and not training.

I think I’m gonna wait a little longer before introducing it to her. She’s got a ton of drive but she’s also very sensitive. I’m just not sure how well she’s gonna handle it and I sure don’t want to scare her of it as a puppy.

It sounds like I’m using the e-collar in a little different manner than others with my tracking. Really just about all I care about as far as the dog listening when I’m tracking is if they come back to me when toned. I watched AJ’s experienced dogs work last year and he has used the tone on these collars to condition large hounds (walkers & plotts) to work in close range to the handler off lead. It takes numerous tracks but every time the dog gets too far out ahead of you then you tone it back. When the dog gets back in sight then you tell it to hunt it on up. They eventually learn that they can’t just take off and go without you. Amazing to see a dog like a walker wait up on us or come back and get us.

It’s the same thing I’ve done with Otis and my main task with my new pup. The only time I ever shock Otis’s collar is if he ignores the tone to come back. I only had to do it I think twice last year when we jumped the deer alive and he ignored the tone. I pulled him off several live deer with just the tone. So that’s what I have to get my new pup to do. She knows what the tone means already pretty well. At some point she has to learn what happens if you ignore it. Like I was saying though, when I go to the woods to track, I don’t even plan on using the shock on the vast majority of tracks….it’s just there as a safety blanket if I need it.

Same here. I beep more than bump.

What ever works for you by all means use it. I use the collar on the lowest setting I can that gets the dogs attention. Most dogs train on a medium to high 2. Other dogs like my finished female train on a 4. It's all in reading a dog and understanding how much pressure is needed.

The Alpha collar I use has 1-18 on intensity. Otis will acknowledge a 3 but when we track I go ahead and bump it up to 4 cause I know that if I have to bump/shock him then it’ll be because of a live deer. I love the Alpha for tracking. I started out the first year tracking on lead, which is probably a good idea anyways….but it was frustrating as hell. Having the Alpha makes it much more enjoyable for me and the dog. AJ says the dogs can hunt better off lead like that. I agree with him from what I've seen.

The lab may seem sensitive due to their eargerness to please, but they definitely have a high threshold for pain. That's not really my opinion. I picked that up in Temple Grandin's book where she talked about animals bred for specific jobs. Apparently they were originally bred to retrieve fish from fishing nets so the fishermen could eventually lighten the load enough to pull the net overboard. This was done in frigid waters so they needed a dog with a high tolerance for pain and discomfort.

It’s not really a pain threshold kind of sensitive I’m talking about……It’s more being sensitive to if I raise my voice or if I scolded her for something she might get her feelings hurt really easy. I just don’t think she’s ready for the buzz of the collar. I’ll probably just keep her on lead this whole season and go to off lead with her next year.

I started with simple commands they already knew like sit and kennel and only used the vibration for the first week or so to get them used to the collar. I would give them the command and hit the vibration until they complied. Mine were adult dogs and 8 to 10 months old before I ever used an e collar. I understand they can be used in the wrong way but they have made me much more patient in training by being able to correct at any time without having to yell or chase after them. Two of mine only take a 1 or 2 stim level and the other takes a 4 up to 6 if he is really hard headed. Every dog is different.