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Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? #1731218
05/04/16 06:29 AM
05/04/16 06:29 AM
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Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline OP
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It has been said that history repeats itself, and the rapid ascendance of a brash, populist, almost fascist, cult of personality certainly brings comparisons to the Wiemar Republic between 1919-1933.

I'm sure many of you have read in history books about people having to literally take grocery bags and wheel barrows full of money just to buy small items, because hyper-inflation was so extraordinary. However what most people don't read too much about is the extreme moral decay of Germany during this time. Berlin was a virtual Sodom and Gomorrah.

One man stepped up and promised he was going to "Make Germany great again." And he indeed did for a while...

Interesting read:

http://www.ukapologetics.net/weimar.html

Or simply google: "Decadence of the Wiemar Republic" but beware there is some pretty explicit stuff...


“When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. ”

Dave Barry, Dave Barry Turns Fifty

Last edited by Irishguy; 05/04/16 06:34 AM.
Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731223
05/04/16 06:35 AM
05/04/16 06:35 AM
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Hitler wasn't elected...he just kinda took over

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731226
05/04/16 06:39 AM
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While I admit there are some similarities as far as Trump's belief in Nationalism, I don't see any comparison to Hitler's conquest ethic. Trump wants us to pull our interests out of other countries and concentrate on the home front.


"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
-G. K. Chesterton
Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: JAT50] #1731229
05/04/16 06:42 AM
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Irishguy Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: JAT50
Hitler wasn't elected...he just kinda took over


He personally wasn't "elected" no, but in a parliamentary form of government a certain party - in this case the Nazi party led by Hitler - gets a large enough majority elected to the parliament to have their leader appointed as the head of the government. This is basically what happened. Once there he worked quickly to consolidate his power and become the supreme leader.

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: MarksOutdoors] #1731233
05/04/16 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: MarksOutdoors
While I admit there are some similarities as far as Trump's belief in Nationalism, I don't see any comparison to Hitler's conquest ethic. Trump wants us to pull our interests out of other countries and concentrate on the home front.


I'm not saying that he is Hitler incarnate. I certainly hope you are correct, but I also worry about the possibility. I don't think we all really know enough about Trump.

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731243
05/04/16 06:51 AM
05/04/16 06:51 AM
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Irishguy Offline OP
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By the way that essay I cited was written back in 2006...

The basic premise to the article is that when a people grow tired of liberalism run amok, there is usually a right-wing backlash... And I certainly believe something of that nature is happening here...

People are pissed off and Trump is the pissed of candidate.

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731248
05/04/16 06:53 AM
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I do understand what you are saying. Trump seems to be all over the map and unpredictable. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. With Cruz, I felt you knew what you were getting for better or for worse.

Trump seems to have many rabid, blind supporters. He could take a mask off and reveal he was Obama and it wouldn't change some people's stance of him. Of course I will vote for him in the general but I still feel uncomfortable with him.


"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
-G. K. Chesterton
Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731250
05/04/16 06:54 AM
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The Nazi party didn't win a majority either

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731258
05/04/16 06:58 AM
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Any type of comparison of Hitler and Trump is ridiculous......I do agree that for many Trump is the pissed off vote, but I also think he will be a much better president for our economy and budget than Hillary by far.


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Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731259
05/04/16 06:58 AM
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That's why we have a constitution that spells out the powers of each branch of government and a congress and supreme court to check those powers. Definitely not perfect but we are a long way from a dictator taking over without violence. We could be headed that way but not in the next 8 years.


Last edited by charlie; 05/04/16 06:59 AM.
Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: JAT50] #1731270
05/04/16 07:06 AM
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Irishguy Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: JAT50
The Nazi party didn't win a majority either


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_July_1932

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731275
05/04/16 07:11 AM
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Bottom line: Are voters scared at what Trump MIGHT do enough to avoid him knowing what Clinton WILL do if she's in power?

The Clintons have been building a network at high, mid, state and even smaller levels for 50 years. They have friends with friends with connections and money from their college days to now. None of this is accidental. They're calling in all chits, getting ready for massive payback in the next eight years and America will be far worse off than we are now.

Trump may not be a good guy, or the best guy, or hell even someone voters would want to see. But anyone who believes he will do more damage than Clinton is, IMO, not thinking clearly. We KNOW what she has said, done and plans to do, and it ain't good.

But, vote against Trump out of principle and let Clinton skate in. That'll be fine.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

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Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: charlie] #1731276
05/04/16 07:12 AM
05/04/16 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: charlie
That's why we have a constitution that spells out the powers of each branch of government and a congress and supreme court to check those powers. Definitely not perfect but we are a long way from a dictator taking over without violence. We could be headed that way but not in the next 8 years.



We indeed have that, so why are we so worried about Obama and Clinton seizing power? grin

I don't think that Trump is going to become dictator, but on the other hand there is a concern that a cult of personality such as himself could lead the country down the wrong path.

FDR, as great as he was in some people's eyes, lead the country about as far as it has ever been into socialism, yet he still had the same set of checks and balances [almost] as we do today.

I personally don't want us leaning too far to either the right or the left. And I certainly don't want to see us descend into demagoguery.

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Clem] #1731280
05/04/16 07:16 AM
05/04/16 07:16 AM
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Irishguy Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Clem

Bottom line: Are voters scared at what Trump MIGHT do enough to avoid him knowing what Clinton WILL do if she's in power?

The Clintons have been building a network at high, mid, state and even smaller levels for 50 years. They have friends with friends with connections and money from their college days to now. None of this is accidental. They're calling in all chits, getting ready for massive payback in the next eight years and America will be far worse off than we are now.

Trump may not be a good guy, or the best guy, or hell even someone voters would want to see. But anyone who believes he will do more damage than Clinton is, IMO, not thinking clearly. We KNOW what she has said, done and plans to do, and it ain't good.

But, vote against Trump out of principle and let Clinton skate in. That'll be fine.


I'll be voting for him as the lesser of two evils, still that doesn't mean that I can't question his motives or ponder "what if" scenarios when/if he comes to power.

Let's face the truth, he is a narcissistic, egomaniac, who seems a little crazy at times...

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731283
05/04/16 07:19 AM
05/04/16 07:19 AM
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Interesting quotation:

Even though Hitler was a successful politician who took power in Germany by scapegoating Jews, Communists and many other groups, Alan Levine, political science professor at American University, says that demagogues only exist in a democracy.

Their rise occurs before a dictatorship is successful, and so in his opinion dictators like Hitler do not fit the bill as demagogues.

“A demagogue exists in a democratic contest and maintains a technical legitimacy through winning votes. A dictator doesn’t need that kind of legitimacy. Dictators are worse than demagogues, who still operate in a democratic system,” Levine said. “To the extent that which our politicians ignore the Constitution, and don’t feel bound by the Constitution, that lays the stages for the coming of a demagogue.”

Last edited by Irishguy; 05/04/16 07:20 AM.
Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731287
05/04/16 07:26 AM
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Personally, I am not really worried about it. As a matter of fact I would just as soon see the bottom drop out now anyway because it is coming eventually no matter who we elect. Might as well get it over with now while I am still young enough to do what will need to be done rather than leave it to my kids.

Originally Posted By: Irishguy
Originally Posted By: charlie
That's why we have a constitution that spells out the powers of each branch of government and a congress and supreme court to check those powers. Definitely not perfect but we are a long way from a dictator taking over without violence. We could be headed that way but not in the next 8 years.



We indeed have that, so why are we so worried about Obama and Clinton seizing power? grin

I don't think that Trump is going to become dictator, but on the other hand there is a concern that a cult of personality such as himself could lead the country down the wrong path.

FDR, as great as he was in some people's eyes, lead the country about as far as it has ever been into socialism, yet he still had the same set of checks and balances [almost] as we do today.

I personally don't want us leaning too far to either the right or the left. And I certainly don't want to see us descend into demagoguery.

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731293
05/04/16 07:33 AM
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Quote:
still that doesn't mean that I can't question his motives or ponder "what if" scenarios when/if he comes to power.


Well, sure. We should do that with all elected officials instead of just offering undying fealty and belief that they're perfect in all ways.


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Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731325
05/04/16 08:05 AM
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One of the first things I said about Trump many months ago during our Aldeer political arguments was that I personally aligned with lots of the rhetoric he speaks, BUT he's not constitutional. And THAT'S the essence of the comparison with Hitler (for example), that's where fascism comes from. Even if Trump does something that IS constitutional, it's seemingly just coincidence. A man who isn't restricted by and mindful of the constitution, while mostly being aligned with your beliefs, can (and often will) do things that aren't aligned with them too. THAT is my fear with Trump.

Last edited by ikillbux; 05/04/16 08:05 AM.

We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Clem] #1731329
05/04/16 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: Clem


But, vote against Trump out of principle and let Clinton skate in. That'll be fine.




The people who will do this and tell you straight faced "I'm voting my CONSCIENCE!" or "If I vote for Trump we will never get the (Unicorn) true libertarian third party candidate we deserve!".

Those people DESERVE to live under Clinton rule for 8 years because that's essentially what they are voting for. I can't comprehend that level of head up your ass. It's stupid enough in a primary to throw your vote away but in a general election when you KNOW BETTER! What the @&$! Are they thinking?

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: charlie] #1731331
05/04/16 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: charlie
Personally, I am not really worried about it. As a matter of fact I would just as soon see the bottom drop out now anyway because it is coming eventually no matter who we elect. Might as well get it over with now while I am still young enough to do what will need to be done rather than leave it to my kids.

Originally Posted By: Irishguy
Originally Posted By: charlie
That's why we have a constitution that spells out the powers of each branch of government and a congress and supreme court to check those powers. Definitely not perfect but we are a long way from a dictator taking over without violence. We could be headed that way but not in the next 8 years.



We indeed have that, so why are we so worried about Obama and Clinton seizing power? grin

I don't think that Trump is going to become dictator, but on the other hand there is a concern that a cult of personality such as himself could lead the country down the wrong path.

FDR, as great as he was in some people's eyes, lead the country about as far as it has ever been into socialism, yet he still had the same set of checks and balances [almost] as we do today.

I personally don't want us leaning too far to either the right or the left. And I certainly don't want to see us descend into demagoguery.


Exactly how I feel about it.


Originally Posted by Patricia Heaton
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.


Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: ] #1731399
05/04/16 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Those people DESERVE to live under Clinton rule for 8 years because that's essentially what they are voting for. I can't comprehend that level of head up your ass. It's stupid enough in a primary to throw your vote away but in a general election when you KNOW BETTER! What the @&$! Are they thinking?


Dunno. Hard to comprehend that mindset. Just look at the last 8 years and who she worked for after putting aside her (and Bill's) personal hatred of the president ONLY for her own benefit -- to add SecState to her resume -- in order to move a step closer to where we area now and the Clintons' goals of the last 4-5 decades.


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Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: ] #1731403
05/04/16 09:28 AM
05/04/16 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: RobertD
Originally Posted By: Clem


But, vote against Trump out of principle and let Clinton skate in. That'll be fine.




The people who will do this and tell you straight faced "I'm voting my CONSCIENCE!" or "If I vote for Trump we will never get the (Unicorn) true libertarian third party candidate we deserve!".

Those people DESERVE to live under Clinton rule for 8 years because that's essentially what they are voting for. I can't comprehend that level of head up your ass. It's stupid enough in a primary to throw your vote away but in a general election when you KNOW BETTER! What the @&$! Are they thinking?


False. If we were a pure democracy, then yeah it would be throwing away your vote to vote third party. Unless you live in a hotly contested swing state, your vote will either be for the majority party (Republicans in AL), minority party, or third party protest vote. Either way you vote, unless you are in a swing state, it really doesn't matter. The winner is known way ahead of time and said winner is already counting the delegates without any thought of what they need to do to get you to the polls. Notice how many candidates will come to AL during the general election...

Third party votes are protest votes in states that the outcome is pre-determined by demographics. In swing states, a vote third party is more like abstaining from voting for one of two likely candidates to win. It is still not a vote for another person. Third parties pull from both sides. Still, if you vote for Hillary, that is the only way she gets a vote. Not if you don't vote for Trump or Hillary.

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731405
05/04/16 09:30 AM
05/04/16 09:30 AM
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I can't believe all the worry warts out here. Come on guys quit with all the sky's falling rhetoric.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
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Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: 257wbymag] #1731412
05/04/16 09:40 AM
05/04/16 09:40 AM
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Irishguy Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
I can't believe all the worry warts out here. Come on guys quit with all the sky's falling rhetoric.


I'm not "worrying" just concerned for the future. If nothing mattered we could simply stand by and let whoever get elected and whatever small special interest group decide the path for our country...

My point with the original post and the link to the article was that it will be interesting to see how this plays out int he context of history.

Many republics throughout history have devolved into dictatorships and ruin...

Read the following quote and decide which stage we are in:

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by dictatorship.

“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1) From bondage to spiritual faith;

2) From spiritual faith to great courage;

3) From courage to liberty;

4) From liberty to abundance;

5) From abundance to complacency;

6) From complacency to apathy;

7) From apathy to dependence;

8) From dependence back to bondage ...”


Alexander Tyler, 1787

Last edited by Irishguy; 05/04/16 09:45 AM.
Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: 257wbymag] #1731413
05/04/16 09:44 AM
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Quote:
I can't believe all the worry warts out here. Come on guys quit with all the sky's falling rhetoric.


I feel the same way about the "gheys in Target!" reactions. It's not like there's a line of creepy man-women outside their bathrooms trying to get in so they can kidnap little girls or boys.

But, y'know, gotta fall with the sky when the sky is falling.


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Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731450
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Whoever is happy will make others happy too. Anne Frank
Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Geno] #1731456
05/04/16 10:44 AM
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Irishguy Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Geno
7.5


That's kind of what I was thinking...

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731459
05/04/16 10:54 AM
05/04/16 10:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 12,916
Old Florida
Geno Offline
Booner
Geno  Offline
Booner
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 12,916
Old Florida
Simple mathematics. Slightly more than half do not pay into the system.

Most of those depend on money they get because they did not "win life's lottery".

Most of those do not realize that government has no money (our government anyway) other than that confiscated at the point of a gun. Without the simplest of knowledge, bondage is preordained.

Apathy came and went while I was still pretty much a youngster.


Whoever is happy will make others happy too. Anne Frank
Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731462
05/04/16 11:01 AM
05/04/16 11:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,236
louisiana
D
deerman24 Offline
10 point
deerman24  Offline
10 point
D
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,236
louisiana
where u see clowns. the circus is coming

Re: Are We the Wiemar Republic About to Elect a Hitler? [Re: Irishguy] #1731466
05/04/16 11:06 AM
05/04/16 11:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,501
Central, Al
Bustinbeards Offline
Booner
Bustinbeards  Offline
Booner
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,501
Central, Al
Originally Posted By: Irishguy
Originally Posted By: charlie
That's why we have a constitution that spells out the powers of each branch of government and a congress and supreme court to check those powers. Definitely not perfect but we are a long way from a dictator taking over without violence. We could be headed that way but not in the next 8 years.



We indeed have that, so why are we so worried about Obama and Clinton seizing power? grin

Because, the next president could possibly nominate 3 Supreme Court Justices. even one of those nominations could turn the course of this nations future. If a Democrat or liberal judge is nominated we will loose any hope of any SCOTUS decision going the way of conservative rulings. thus we as conservatives will loose two of the checks and balances(Judicial/executive) that have put been into place and the forced liberal agenda will be our future. That is why I am Worried!


Originally Posted By: Wiley Coyote
Well, the way I see it is there's just too many assholes
On a good day there's a bunch of assholes in here. On a bad day there's too many assholes in here.
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