I had a Goodman 3-1/2 ton heat pump installed some 10 years ago. At the time I knew nothing of the different brands available. About 5 years after the install the compressor goes out and it was repaired under warranty, no biggie, fast forward to yesterday, there is frost on the line that is insulated. i call the folks that have done my A/C install and repair and they promptly respond. The tech goes about pulling every cover there is on the unit and the filter, the filter is wet so that indicates a problem. He tells me that the capacitor is not operating up to norm and needs to be replaced, okay, there is also leaking refrigerant somewhere and once he has the capacitor in place he can charge the system and check. Long story short he put two pounds of refrigerant and a new capacitor

Diagnosis - 89.00
Refrigerant - 80.00/pound, 2 pounds- 160.00
Capacitor - 139.00

So 388.00 later and the system is still broke according to them. I just now got a call from them and it will cost an additional 1,524.00 to replace the coils. Guys this does not sound right. Who on here does this kind of work and can give me an honest answer regarding price?

Thanks

Unfortunately, that does sound right. I had a Goodman 3 1/2 ton unit too. My coils went out right before the warranty expired. It still cost me $500 in labor. The next year the capacitor went out but I replaced it myself. 2 years later, the coils went out again. This time we replaced the whole unit with an American Standard. We had nothing but trouble out of Goodman.

Capacitors can be bought on Amazon for $16. It is easy install. Refrigerant will need a license to add, but yea it is a little more expensive.

You are correct. I bought mine from Grainger for about $10-15 bucks. Easy to fix...saved about $150 dollars.

I do this stuff every day.

Assuming he did a leak check and found the evap coil leaking. which is extremely likely with Goodman equipment.

Everything sound like standard pricing to me. Pretty competitive I'd say, alot depends on if he's able to pump the system down and few other things.

Just because the coil is leaking, doesn't mean you have to replace it. I'd never recommend spending that chunk of change on a 10yr old Goodman unit. You could just run it and see how it does, it may leak down in a few months, if so that would require something more major or it may last a yr and you may just have to have it checked and charged every spring until you're ready to replace.

Sounds about right other than the capacitor.. they gotcha on that one
.. like was said above, in the future get the microfarad reading on the cap and buy online.

I had problem with goodman also. Inexpensive but bit me in the long run. Never again.

Had my Goodman since 2006. Only problem was mobile home subcontractor didn't install heat strips properly to breaker and heat wouldn't work. Kept tripping. Found reputable contractor and had fixed right including replacement of cheap thermostat. Haven't had problem since that repair. Heats great. A/c ok not as cool as I'd like in 90's of summer but works well enough. Once it breaks I'm getting a Trane.

Sounds like he cut you a deal since he didn't charge for the leak search. ( I'm Assuming he did one if he knew the coil was leaking.) They may classify the leak search in the diagnosis process, We don't.

In all actuality the price falls right in line with every legitimate company that I know.

I would never recommend replacing the coils in a 10 year old r22 system, Especially on a goodman.

Goodman evap coils are notorious for leaking. I ran across probably 5 different customers last week with coils leaking on Goodmans. They are having American Standards installed this week.

Did this guy even recommend to replace the system all together?

$650 in labor today for 2 guys and an hour of work today on our air conditioner. I know that gets split out and all but still outrageous in my book.

We got our goodmans in 2006 also. It was a constant issue. Always being serviced, always freezing up. New (to me) house has Rudd "achiever 12" units. They have been great

what a rip off, R22 refrig cost $13.oo a pound and a capacitor cost $35.00. They got you. Goodman unit is on the low end of AC equipt.

I will buy r22 at 13.00 a lb! Let me know when?
It is now 425-450.00 our cost and rising. If you think we can run a 40k truck with 10k worth of tools and supplies and come to your house to repair a system.....????
We always suggest that you bring your system to our shop and we will cut you a deal ; )

Last I knew R22 was way more than that!

You can buy a new one for 2800-3000 range. I have several Goodman's only had problems with one and was under warranty. R22 goes up and down. Little high on capacitor price.

Out of curiosity.. Those of you that think these prices are out of range, What do you think a fair price on this particular service call would be?

The A/C industry is a rigged crooked mess. Caps, typically are either good, or not. They are about $10 and can be changed out in about 2 minutes, so yea $139 is ridiculous. Everything about the heating and air business is crooked. If you go to a distributor, they won't sell you anything, unless you have a card. I could see not selling you a unit, or freon, but how about a register? Nope. Lowes sells registers, thermostats, and other ac stuff.

He didn't come out and suggest replacing it but he did say that in the future new systems will b required to use the new eco friendly refrigerant, made a comment that Goodmans were junk, okay did you know this 10 years ago when you installed it? I don't mind paying for quality work but it seemed that was high to replace the coils. Thanks for all of the replies. for now I am going to keep an eye on it and if it does this again I am going to try and replace the whole system.

Is getting your A/C worked on expensive? Yes it is but like TwoRs said you can't run a fleet of trucks worth 40-50 grand plus the tech's in them for peanuts just like the company you own or work for you have to make a profit.... If you want cheaper prices call the one man and a tool box guy but when it comes to HVAC you get what you pay for, I have been in and around the HVAC biz for 25 years and not a day goes by that we don't get a call to come fix what the one guy and a tool box tore up or couldn't fix...

The prices you paid were in line but he should have told you up front to just buy a new unit..

As with any industry, There are bad apples that give the good guys a bad rap. There are some great companies out there that give you your moneys worth. Just remember, you are not only paying for what they do, but for what they know.

I've worked for 2 different companies that alot of guys here would consider "high priced" companies, yet I never have a customer complain about my pricing. A good company will make sure that the customer feels took care of.

Air conditioning companies aren't cheap to operate, therefore they aren't cheap to call either, in most cases.

Side job Joe may be able to support himself and his truck by charging 30 bucks for replacing capacitiors, but legitimate companies simply can't operate like that. Most companies offer up front pricing, if you don't like the price then call side job Joe.

We run into the same thing in my business. Its hard to compete with a guy who operates out of the back of his truck, doesn't have insurance or an office. I run into people all the time who just don't understand overhead.

if the fed's would make companies tax rates double, for making over 30% profit. It would stop a lot of the price gouging and probably increase workers wages too.

I don't think he wanted to tell me outright to buy another system and I can understand why. What I don't get is the markup in parts. I worked for a company and had to price out parts and it was ridiculous what I had to charge people for a Smoke Detector, we paid 35.00 and charged service contract customers 100.00, non-contract we charged 150.00, now before I get flamed I understand profit and overhead but if the capacitor cost you 20.00 and you marked it up to 139.00 you are making some serious profit on that one component and it makes me wonder what kind of markup is on the coils, again I don't mind paying for quality but there needs to be reasonable markup.

Get you a home warranty. I use American Home Shield and have had good service out of them. Had my air handler replaced a few months ago and it cost me $65.

I fully understand complaining about prices. And I'm probably the first one who will try any job around the house. But those licensed contractors have alot more to pay than what your looking at. They have equipment/tools, vehicles, maintenance on those vehicles, expertise, probably continuing education requirements, licenses, business license and fees, taxes, insurance, employees, taxes related to employees, employees insurance in some cases, CPA/accountant, advertising, government regulations, etc. So yeah, the capacitor may cost only $15.00 for the part alone..but for them to be able to come out and replace it professionally and correctly...you need to factor all those other costs in as well.



I kicked them to the curb. They were going to take 2 weeks to fix my hot water heater. I have a wife and 2 kids. That wasn't going to happen. I told them I would replace it and if they would reimburse me for the hot water heater. They said yes. WELL....I'm still waiting on the check.

The guy that sells the part for 15 bucks has all those expenses for his business as well.

Yeah, and how many of those $15 parts does he sell a year? I'm sure he's also selling other electrical parts that are supported by other licensed contractors (electricians, HVAC, Home builders, etc). You missed the point. You have to take the business cost as a whole. You can't price a service based on the part alone.

I am not missing the point. It's dishonest to mark up a part to that degree. They do it because most people don't know what the part costs and it looks a lot better on the bill than that extra hundred bucks would look if they added it to labor or overhead where it belongs. I mark up materials 10 to 15 percent to account for my time but I can't hide my costs because anyone can go to home Depot and see what a 2x4 costs. I price my labor honestly where people can see it and make no excuses about it.

So you'd charge $15 for the part...and $2.25 (15%) for labor?? I'm sure you'd charge more than $17.25 to come out to someone's house and replace a capacitor. It'd take you atleast an hour to go out...not counting the fuel cost as well. The only way I'd see a $17.25 charge for that job is on the hope of something larger.

You may be an individual contractor...but if your running a larger business... you must take into account those other costs. If not, I don't see how'd you'd stay in business.

No, I would charge a labor price to cover my labor and mark up materials 10 to 15 percent to cover my time and trouble picking up materials. If I come out to your house to put on a new doorknob that cost 10 dollars I am not going to bill you 150 dollars for it just so I can bill you 50 bucks for labor and look like I am cutting you a deal. I will bill you my labor rate to include my time picking up parts and add a couple bucks on to the doorknob.

Dang fellas after reading this it makes me even more thankful that I use the heating and cooling service that I use here in Albertville.

Ok
You may have found a 15.00 capacitor but they are cheap and we can buy some for 3.25. They are junk, come from Mexico and fail regularly in new units. We have capacitors that cost us 55.00 that have 5 year warranty. We don't control pricing of parts or the part you found on the Internet. But if you buy a coke at a corner market for 1.69 what do you think it cost them?
We use a standard baseline mark up and treat everyone with respect and fairness. To say the industry is rigged is just like the post with the new Duramax on the lift at 15k, you have NO idea what it cost to operate a business!
In the HVAC industry we compete with Bubba and a Truck, Call him when it is 95 degrees to come back and put that 13.00 a lb freon in your system. If he answers the phone, good for you.
It is coming to a point where you just think you know what is happening in the Quality tech service industry.....who do you know that is pursuing a future in plumbing, electricial or HVAC industry?
What do you think it going to cost you to call and get someone to drive to your house in 5 years due to the reduced number of techs? Don't count on getting it done that day if you are not a regular customer that has a service agreement to check the mechanical systems twice a year like you should.
The new equipment is getting much more complicated and the industry is taking the easy stuff out and building in proprietary parts that you can only get from their distributor.
Enjoy your day and make sure you treat your HVAC system like you do your truck and it may last you 15 years.
Rant over!

Out of Curiosity, Who do you use. A good buddy of mine and his dad have a company in your neck of the woods.

Johnny Morrow Morrow heating and cooling.Great guy and always great service.He is fair priced and from the sounds of it alot better priced than most.

No kidding on that. I think it's already happening. Luckily our service department has been together 6years with some great techs. I was talking to one of our competitors owners a few months ago when I ran into him and he told me straight up he couldn't find anyone worth a dang and had been through hiring 14 different techs the last two years, a few were good techs, he just didn't think at the time matching other offers was his best bet.. But he had wished he did to keep them after seeing how hard it was to find good quality techs. He normally runs 5-6 techs in his service department. Alot of companies are having high turnover across the state. The companies that are willing to pay top money are keeping their great techs. There will be a whole lot of companies hurting in the next 5years and longer down the road, that's for sure.

I have no problem with a service call rate. I have no problem with the freon charge, but your already there, so why tack on another diagnostics charge for a damn capacitor. I buy them from a local distributor thru my work and they are cheap and it only takes a couple minutes to change one out. $50 would be reasonable, but $139 is ridiculous. I could see charging that if your were called out there, and thats what you found wrong, but he was already there. He was called out due to low freon and the unit freezing up. To be honest, i doubt very seriously if there was anything wrong with the capacitor. Sounds like he was just running up the charges. I could be wrong. All the ac guys want to drive brand new trucks, brand new tools and live in a $250,000 house and then bitch about overhead.

You have a broad brush. Most are Tech's making an honest living in a screwed up world.

he kinda contradicted himself didnt he? They wanna bill top dollar, but are cheap skates when it comes to hiring.

I'm not talking about the tech's. I'm talking about the company owners. They dictate how much to charge, not the tech's. Sometimes the tech's are the owners, but not always.

BTW, the biggest scam they have going is the tuneup. They'll come out twice a year and tuneup your system. Keep your filter changed monthly and wash your outside coil out 1-2 times a year and thats all anyone can do, and i ain't paying somebody for that.

I'm with you, I have gauges, etc..to work on my own. I buy parts needed wholesale with distributors. But, not everyone has knowledge and has to rely on others. If they are not educated or know enough to clean coils they should pay the price to have equipment maintained.

I am in specialized service/controls industrial company and I target 30% margin. Sometimes You pay more because I know what parts are needed and have engineered the application. It's not always as simple as pulling a part off and reading the part number. A lot of OEM mask the true manufacturer of parts in attempt to go back thru them at 300% margin.