I noticed they had a new tract available as well as a few others...this one in in Tuscaloosa county...if anyone is interested let me know I am interested as well but cant afford it all by myself..
500 acres located off Upper Columbus Road in Tuscaloosa County. The southwest corner of this lease consists mostly of swamp associated with the Sipsey River. There is roughly 170 acres of bottomland hardwood and swamp, 100 acres of 12-14 year old longleaf pine, and 130 acres clearcut summer of 2013. There are established food plots and gated access. This lease is convenient to Tuscaloosa/Northport and an ideal place for a quick afternoon hunt after work. Price does not include insurance or camp/litter deposit.

Dang! They seem a little high on the price for that one. $12.30/acre

Not also that your lease will include an automatic 5% increase clause each and every year with Westervelt. They have some very good properties but with annual increases, once you keep that property for 5 years and invest the time and money into establishing a good herd and nice place, you'll be paying $15/acre that 5th year. Compounding effect catches up with you quick if you try to do something long term. Keep it for 10 yrs and it will have almost doubled in price to $19.03/acre.

Yikes!

So what. You can bet inflation will be around 3%, annually. So you are paying a premium of 2% for a recreational property. I bet those homes on the gulf coast increase the same 5% or more each year.

How many of those homes in your example are next to public free housing? Cause that property is next to public land.

I assume you mean the state Forever Wild land joins it

I just post land I find...it does not hurt my feelings either way..lol

Don't forget the litter deposit is $500 and the camp deposit I believe is $1500...both refundable but due along with the lease price.

You mean like the State Parks in Gulf Shores, the public beaches, or the Gulf of Mexico?

I'm just saying that all goods and services are going to increase in time due to inflation. 'Luxury' goods and services typically increase more than inflation.

As a hunter, I don't like it any more than anyone else on here. It is just the fact.

You are correct. However, houses are financed over a long period of time at a fixed payment amount and are generally a safe investment. Hunting club leases are an annual expense and last time a checked, had to be paid up front. A person's disposable income to be spent on things like hunting leases is a function of total net income after taxes. There aren't many companies right now with a guaranteed 5% annual salary raise for their employees. Point being, I dont think anyone staying in the same job honestly expects their salary to increase 75% over the same 10 year period particularly if they are a mid to senior level employee. If your lease goes up 75% and your disposable income stays the same or matches inflation, you'll end up in a position where you can no longer afford to pay more and more each year for your lease. At some point, lease prices are going to have to plateau. They cannot continue to go up with no ceiling. Using your analogy, the housing market crashed and homes were worth a fraction of what they were in 2005 and 2006. Lease market might be in for the same run if y'all continue to jack the prices out the roof. It's not there yet but judging from all the complaints about lease prices in the past two years, the timber companies might be closer to their crash than they think. By the way, I'm friends with some Westervelt guys and they had to drop a fine lease because it went up 5% annually and Westervelt wasnt giving them 5% annual salary raises. After 10 years, the disposable income gap became to great to justify keeping it. It simply became unaffordable to them and their families. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. Lease rates have been at the trough for a long time. Downward adjustment will come at some point. There are only so many doctors and lawyers that are willing to pay $15-$20 acre. It's already forcing more and more people out of the lease market and forcing more clubs to take in more members on the same amount of land. It's coming. Trust me on this one.

Final note, I've still got my big lease but with the annual increases every year, I'm starting to question whether the property is really worth keeping at that significantly higher rate and I make dang good money. The question becomes, it was well worth it at $8/acre is it still worth it at $17.50/acre. You want good hunting, you have the keep the member to acreage ratio down. Our dues started at $1,250/yr. They are now $3,000/yr. I'll also mention that we got the same % annual increases even in 2007-2013 period when the economy was in the toilet, nobody was getting raises, people getting laid off left and right and real estate prices were in freefall. Lease went up like clockwork every year regardless. Same land, same number of members, hunting is great, just paying a whole lot more for it. Owner hasnt done anything but harvest trees on it and if we want the roads fixed/maintained we pretty much have to do it. It's unfortunate but we are all pretty much at the breaking point price wise. We've managed it for years, paid our lease on time, put in a ton of time and effort, been excellent stewards of the land and its a showplace. We as a group are talking about just keeping it for one final year this year letting the kids have at it and just shooting all the 3 yr old and older bucks we've stockpiled over the last 12 years and giving it back in the same herd condition it was in when we got it. No sense in leaving the bucks stockpiled, it will garner $20/acre as it sits right now and we will be helping increase lease prices even further when someone pays that # and it artificially sets the market for all the other leases in that area.

The last 2 posts are spot on. Getting ridiculous. Companies used to be about giving back, now their model is to make as much as possible. Sad

Yep I'm with u I'm seriously thinking about getting out of my main one next year which is 2000 and I have one that's 800 that's close to home and done ok there. Gonna get me around 100 acres at some point of my own and drop all of them. Too much time and money goes in for them to cut whenever they want which they haven't done in about 2 yrs but it's coming and can't say anything cause hey it's theirs to do what they want. I know some don't care for it but did a high fence hunt last year in Texas that was actually harder than I thought. Some may be surprised like me if u tried it. That way until I pull the trigger on my own place I'll just take that money and go towards a deer hunt and maybe a turkey hunt in spring. Just my opinion and my situation going forward.

I just felt like $12.30/acre was high for that area. Probably a fair price for other areas of the state

No. None of those you listed are free public housing.

If it's listed at $12.30/acre, someone paid that last season for it. Probably a little high for T-town and definitely high if it borders public land like someone said. Until 20-25% of these types of tracts go unleased for a season or two, prices arent gonna change. We are our own worse enemy because someone paid that price last year, that's where it starts this year. If they keep it two years paying that 5% increase and drop it because it's getting poached and tennis shoe hunted, then it will be $13+ per acre because a timber company is always going to start at what they got the last year it was leased and go up from there. If people are really serious about getting lease prices back reasonable, they've got to start passing on these overpriced tracts and let them sit unleased.

Why don't yall that are paying the increased prices ask the leasing company if they can drop the rate for you. They will drop it and keep their happy tenant or have to start over at the lower rate with a new tenant. Seems like current lease holder has all the bargaining power.

Originally Posted By: Ben2

Why don't yall that are paying the increased prices ask the leasing company if they can drop the rate for you. They will drop it and keep their happy tenant or have to start over at the lower rate with a new tenant. Seems like current lease holder has all the bargaining power.

You would think so... assume there's always' somebody that will pay higher prices...that's why I cant find any decent cheaper land.

Yep. We have a lease I'm dropping with wheyhauser. All the land around it is 7.50-8.50 a acre we payed 10.30 this year and it's going up to 10.60 this year. I tried to keep it but it really isn't worth it at that price. Someone will lease it I'm sure but not me.

I don't like the high lease prices no more than anyone else but yall do realize that the "timber leases" are still a timber company first. Do you really think they care if a property gets the hunting rights leased or not? The short answer is no. IMO anyone thinking that the lease prices will drop like the housing industry did is nothing short of foolish thinking. I would like to hope they will but in reality the timber comes first and hunting is not even a close second.

Litter deposits, camp deposits , food plot fees are just plain ridiculous when you are already paying a premium lease price per acre.

Actually not......

Lease prices will eventually either come down or level off due to the poor economy and declining deer population more and more people are dropping deer hunting and doing other things, It is just a matter of time with the greed of the timber companies and the poor management of the deer herd by the State ..........

It's getting rediculous with these prices,especially when companies are listing land in Conecuh county for $13+/acre,enjoy it while you can because in 5 years only the rich will be able to afford these prices or you will have to get a lot of members just to keep the dues reasonable

Neither of which I care for...I use to enjoy hunting now it costs more than I can afford...

I just put one on the website in Conecuh County @ $13.50/ac and it lasted 6 hours.

This is why I plan to book a three day hunt this year.

Good for you......just shows a fool and his money will soon be parted

Or you could lease a piece of property in the Midwest for the same price your paying for mediocre hunting in Alabama and see way more deer with a good chance of killing a buck of a lifetime

This^

X 2 ! You see land in other top-end counties go for 15-20 dollars an acre. For that much you can go out of state. I have friends that hunt Kentucky for 19 an acre

And this is what I stated,gotta have deep pockets or lots of members to keep the price reasonable,it's killing the average joe, my family owns land very close by that tract and I hunt right up the road for half of that price per acre,you can put $20/acre on it and someone will lease it but these high prices are gonna eventually cause the average guy to quit hunting

Lotta out of state hunters hunt AL because of our long season and way to liberal bag limits. If we go to a buck tagging system and limit the doe harvest (which I feel is coming), you'll see a lot of the MS and LA guys starting to stay home when they can't come over here and legally kill 20-30 deer a season anymore. That will bring the lease prices down too. Over the years, as the other states tightened their harvest restrictions, more and more came over to AL which increased demand for leases which in turn helped drive pricing. Its all about supply and demand. Reb, congrats on getting $13.50/acre in Conecuh. I don't know of anything in Conecuh that's worth that but hey, if someone is willing to pay it, take that sucker's money and laugh at him all the way to the bank. He'll get it, find out it's avg hunting at best and drop it next year but a new/higher bar has been set and next year, Reb will try to get a little more for it from the next guy. And for the record, I dont blame Reb a bit. He's doing his job and what he gets paid for, maximize the profits his company makes. I run a business and I'll push the envelope trying to get as much as I can for the work my guys do. If some sucker is willing to pay it, I'll take his money. Until people refuse to overpay, I wont lower my prices and neither will Reb. It's capitalism and supply and demand. Reb thinks the demand is sustainable and I think the leasing community is on the edge of revolt. Like I said before, until 25% or so of their property goes unleased for a year, they have no incentive to reduce prices. I saw more unleased on the Westervelt site going into last season than I ever have before and they cut bait and offered up some properties, for a single season only cut rate, just to get them leased. The next few years will prove one of us right or wrong.

I was in a club in Chambers county in 1994 and we had 12 members, 3860 acres, and the dues were 550.00 ea. That same club in 2012, had 3260 acres, about 20 members, and the dues are 2000.00 per member. If my Salary had increased at that rate, I would be retiring this year.

Lease prices will NEVER, EVER, EVER, NEVER go down. Our club pays well below 8 an acre on over 4900 acres of connected land, but it's also not very good land, and we have about 35 members. It's really cheap, but just not really good land, but the club's intention is to keep the dues low for everybody versus increase the acres per member.

The reason prices will never go down is because there will always be somebody who places so much importance on hunting, and also has the money, that will find it, and pay. All the increasing lease prices have done is lower the enjoyment of hunting for most, because every club under 2.5k a year has 1 hunter per 120 acres, and 120 acres in Alabama is inconsistent from year to year to year. I'll say it again, lease prices will never go down.

Amen!

I did the some of the food plot work on this piece of property year before last. A Aldeer member that doesn't post much had it leased.

It's a couple of miles from my house. I personally wouldn't pay
$5.00 per acre for it. The $12.50 per acre is a ridiculous price for this place.

^^^^^ This is one way they get these ridiculous lease prices paid each year. One and done hunters looking for that mythical piece of great hunting land they can call theirs. If hunters would do a better job of spreading the word on these lackluster pieces of property maybe then they will go unleased a few years then maybe they would have realistic lease prices that could yield long term lease opportunities that would be worth a hunter investing their time and money to improve it, but at $10 plus an acre it needs to be jam up to begin with and need minimal money spent on it other than seed and fertilizer for the average hunter to be able to justify keeping it. IMO at least in SW Alabama there is not a piece of property I have ever seen or heard of that would justify my first year lease price be $10 acre. It might well get there after many years of hunting and invested improvements, but no way the first year......

You are entitled to your opinion but you just don't get it. The market dictates the price. Outside of mobile or Washington county, you'd be hard press to find another county in sw Alabama with an average price per acre below $10. Fact is, anything worth hunting is worth $10/ac.

We all get it Rebelman. I understand that the market dictates the price but that doesn't mean the land is really worth $10 or more per acre or that there are deer on it. For example, That's why I didn't pull the trigger on the Covington county tract you had available early on. I know that property and hunted it and know that no deer or turkeys were taken there last season or before. To you the market will bear $10 or more an acre but to me it is a tract that produced no deer or turkeys and not worth the market price you asked for it. You tell folks to look at harvest records but in this case there were none because no deer were taken. I understand that business is business but I still feel sorry for the poor folks that snatched up that Covington county tract you listed and had no idea that no one in club that leased it previously could kill a deer or turkey on it. Or were you ethical and told them how poor harvest results were? Maybe you were. Last year my calls or emails to Rayonier were not returned. No one from Rayonier gave me information or harvest records or anything you mention folks should ask about hunting clubs & leases. I view Rayonier and most of these timber & land companies as unethical in their sales practices. I sell insurance but I go about it ethically because I want customers for life. I won't get them if I mislead them.

If you had calls and emails unreturned I apologize. That is not what I want to hear. We work extremely hard to return every single lead. To the point that we have engaged in the use of sales force which helps us record every single call to ensure we attempt to reconnect. If you will forward me your email attempt I will get to the bottom of it.

As for that particular property, I don't see how a club can go a season and not see a single deer. I simply don't believe it. I'm not calling you a liar. Just saying that is hard to believe. We own 80k acres contiguous in that area and I didn't hear any other complaints. It was a hot season through December but no one else claimed to not see a single deer.

As far as our customer relations, we had a 92% retention rate last year. That isn't by accident. Again, we work hard at what we do. I bet no other 'timber company' invited every single club to a tournament style clay shoot last year along with dinner.

I have said my piece and I'm done with the conversation. There will always be people who complain about price. Just like I'm upset with Costa because I feel their sunglasses are overpriced. When mine broke last time I figured I'd hold out till they dropped their price. 2 years later I bought their product for $50 more than what they were before I held out. Turns out the Costa didn't really miss my money during my hold out. Same is true for everything.

If there is a major drop in lease rates, so be it. I don't make the prices. The market does.

MW, I hope you find what you are looking for.

I shot Reb a pm about a piece of property they have available. By the next day, he answered all my questions. If Rayonier produces the tract I want for the price I can justify spending, I would lease from them. I was just stating that I thought that was a high price for that piece of property, but it is there property and they can lease it for what they want. If someone will pay it, it is worth it to them

I have leased from them and I agree they have high lease rates but in my opinion the customer service and response time with this company is really good. Everyone will never be satisfied all at once. Either you pay the price to lease property and possibly have a better hunting experience or you don't. Even though they market leases at a high rate all the tracks are leased out every season so like it or not it's good marketing.

We are both entitled to our opinion but I assure you I get it. I understand the market and the fact that most large timber companies unlike the smaller family run timber companies of the past do not care about long term lease relationships. They are only concerned with the most money they can squeeze out of a tract and like I referenced above I do understand that there are plenty of one and done lease holders that will pay that price at least once searching for that awesome hunting land they always dream about. As far as the rest of SW Alabama counties I know of tracts leased or available lease for an average of $8 in Baldwin, Choctaw, Escambia and Conecuh counties. I will agree with you that any tract with a " proven" history of hunting success would be worth $10 acre,but just because the market is currently producing $10 acre on a certain tract it does not mean it's worth it.

I am pretty sure he did not say they didn't see a deer. He said they didn't shoot any. People generally do not pay $10 an acre to shoot a few does or a couple of spikes or four points or at least I hope not. Like I referenced when people start out paying high lease rates there is and should the expectation that the hunting is going to be pretty good from the start not on the same par as public land hunting.

I agree. In no way is anything I have posted directed at Reb or the company he works for. I have a few friends that are also foresters that do the same thing he does everyday and I totally understand he is just doing his job. If there was ever a tract that Rayonier had that was in the price range I thought the land was worth I wouldn't hesitate to do so....

I am pretty sure he did not say they didn't see a deer. He said they didn't shoot any. People generally do not pay $10 an acre to shoot a few does or a couple of spikes or four points or at least I hope not. Like I referenced when people start out paying high lease rates there is and should the expectation that the hunting is going to be pretty good from the start not on the same par as public land hunting. [/quote]

To be clear, ten members of the now defunct hunt club that leased that tract did not see a single deer. So yes neither I nor any other member saw a doe or buck or anything deer or turkey could be harvested. I couldn't believe it but it was true myself until sat all day on multiple days and saw nothing.

Second, I never got an answer to emails I sent through the Rayonier system after setting up an account. Perhaps issue with their internal system. It had name of managers from drop down menu to send an inquiry. Could be it didn't work

To be clear, ten members of the now defunct hunt club that leased that tract did not see a single deer. So yes neither I nor any other member saw a doe or buck or anything deer or turkey could be harvested. I couldn't believe it but it was true myself until sat all day on multiple days and saw nothing.

Second, I never got an answer to emails I sent through the Rayonier system after setting up an account. Perhaps issue with their internal system. It had name of managers from drop down menu to send an inquiry. Could be it didn't work [/quote]



Man I hate to hear you guys had that kind of season but could be another byproduct of these over priced leases. I know of people that after they figure out it is not worth what they paid and know they ain't keeping it they try to get their money's worth by shooting everything they can.......

Man I hate to hear you guys had that kind of season but could be another byproduct of these over priced leases. I know of people that after they figure out it is not worth what they paid and know they ain't keeping it they try to get their money's worth by shooting everything they can....... [/quote]

It was bizarre big t. Not my normal experience & to be fair I've been in clubs in past on other Rayonier property that was good. All expected to see more and like u say none wanted to just kill does & smaller deer. The pres kept talking about big bucks but none of us saw anything legal we could shoot or stuff you don't shoot like fawns. Only thing property offered was chance to get bit by cottonmouth or copperhead. Even on perfect wind days knowing I got in quiet, there was nothing. To be clear my gripe about not getting info on tracts from Rayonier was last year and had nothing to do with Rebelman. Anytime I asked him for info I got it. If I had inquired with rebelman last year I have no doubt my questions would have been answered.

Reb went out of his way last year to answer all my questions and emails. It just wasn't feasible to lease the property I looked at, but he did his job in a very professional way.

So basicly , your saying = He a good guy, that works for an average company?

Word to the wise on Westervelt property - ask several questions up front prior to leasing a tract. Be specific... questions like "what is the scheduled timber harvest for the tract", "does anyone have the right to cross the tract to access adjoining land", etc. Not saying the answers will necessarily be the truth - but at least you asked.

I don't know anything about his company but I can tell you Brad (Reb) is a great guy and a true professional. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him site unseen. If he says it, you can bank on it being truthful.

That about sums it up

why don't y'all all sign up for this. That's why they charge these high prices because some fool will pay it.

Negative. We have a lease with a timber company that we've had for over 30 years, and we take better care of it than land we own. If the "you guys are out-pricing us" conversation comes up they are quick to remind you they can easily lease it to someone else if we don't want it.