WTB
by Okalona. 03/28/24 07:44 AM
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: abolt300]
#1726911
04/28/16 06:56 AM
04/28/16 06:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,686 South Alabama
Rebelman
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,686
South Alabama
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Not also that your lease will include an automatic 5% increase clause each and every year with Westervelt. They have some very good properties but with annual increases, once you keep that property for 5 years and invest the time and money into establishing a good herd and nice place, you'll be paying $15/acre that 5th year. Compounding effect catches up with you quick if you try to do something long term. Keep it for 10 yrs and it will have almost doubled in price to $19.03/acre. So what. You can bet inflation will be around 3%, annually. So you are paying a premium of 2% for a recreational property. I bet those homes on the gulf coast increase the same 5% or more each year.
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: Rebelman]
#1726916
04/28/16 07:05 AM
04/28/16 07:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,561 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,561
Tuscaloosa Co.
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Not also that your lease will include an automatic 5% increase clause each and every year with Westervelt. They have some very good properties but with annual increases, once you keep that property for 5 years and invest the time and money into establishing a good herd and nice place, you'll be paying $15/acre that 5th year. Compounding effect catches up with you quick if you try to do something long term. Keep it for 10 yrs and it will have almost doubled in price to $19.03/acre. So what. You can bet inflation will be around 3%, annually. So you are paying a premium of 2% for a recreational property. I bet those homes on the gulf coast increase the same 5% or more each year. How many of those homes in your example are next to public free housing? Cause that property is next to public land.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: N2TRKYS]
#1726923
04/28/16 07:11 AM
04/28/16 07:11 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,722 McCalla
Big AL 76
OP
12 point
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OP
12 point
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,722
McCalla
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Not also that your lease will include an automatic 5% increase clause each and every year with Westervelt. They have some very good properties but with annual increases, once you keep that property for 5 years and invest the time and money into establishing a good herd and nice place, you'll be paying $15/acre that 5th year. Compounding effect catches up with you quick if you try to do something long term. Keep it for 10 yrs and it will have almost doubled in price to $19.03/acre. So what. You can bet inflation will be around 3%, annually. So you are paying a premium of 2% for a recreational property. I bet those homes on the gulf coast increase the same 5% or more each year. How many of those homes in your example are next to public free housing? Cause that property is next to public land. I assume you mean the state Forever Wild land joins it
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: N2TRKYS]
#1726971
04/28/16 08:04 AM
04/28/16 08:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,686 South Alabama
Rebelman
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,686
South Alabama
|
Not also that your lease will include an automatic 5% increase clause each and every year with Westervelt. They have some very good properties but with annual increases, once you keep that property for 5 years and invest the time and money into establishing a good herd and nice place, you'll be paying $15/acre that 5th year. Compounding effect catches up with you quick if you try to do something long term. Keep it for 10 yrs and it will have almost doubled in price to $19.03/acre. So what. You can bet inflation will be around 3%, annually. So you are paying a premium of 2% for a recreational property. I bet those homes on the gulf coast increase the same 5% or more each year. How many of those homes in your example are next to public free housing? Cause that property is next to public land. You mean like the State Parks in Gulf Shores, the public beaches, or the Gulf of Mexico? I'm just saying that all goods and services are going to increase in time due to inflation. 'Luxury' goods and services typically increase more than inflation. As a hunter, I don't like it any more than anyone else on here. It is just the fact.
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: Rebelman]
#1726976
04/28/16 08:15 AM
04/28/16 08:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,437
abolt300
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,437
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Not also that your lease will include an automatic 5% increase clause each and every year with Westervelt. They have some very good properties but with annual increases, once you keep that property for 5 years and invest the time and money into establishing a good herd and nice place, you'll be paying $15/acre that 5th year. Compounding effect catches up with you quick if you try to do something long term. Keep it for 10 yrs and it will have almost doubled in price to $19.03/acre. So what. You can bet inflation will be around 3%, annually. So you are paying a premium of 2% for a recreational property. I bet those homes on the gulf coast increase the same 5% or more each year. You are correct. However, houses are financed over a long period of time at a fixed payment amount and are generally a safe investment. Hunting club leases are an annual expense and last time a checked, had to be paid up front. A person's disposable income to be spent on things like hunting leases is a function of total net income after taxes. There aren't many companies right now with a guaranteed 5% annual salary raise for their employees. Point being, I dont think anyone staying in the same job honestly expects their salary to increase 75% over the same 10 year period particularly if they are a mid to senior level employee. If your lease goes up 75% and your disposable income stays the same or matches inflation, you'll end up in a position where you can no longer afford to pay more and more each year for your lease. At some point, lease prices are going to have to plateau. They cannot continue to go up with no ceiling. Using your analogy, the housing market crashed and homes were worth a fraction of what they were in 2005 and 2006. Lease market might be in for the same run if y'all continue to jack the prices out the roof. It's not there yet but judging from all the complaints about lease prices in the past two years, the timber companies might be closer to their crash than they think. By the way, I'm friends with some Westervelt guys and they had to drop a fine lease because it went up 5% annually and Westervelt wasnt giving them 5% annual salary raises. After 10 years, the disposable income gap became to great to justify keeping it. It simply became unaffordable to them and their families. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. Lease rates have been at the trough for a long time. Downward adjustment will come at some point. There are only so many doctors and lawyers that are willing to pay $15-$20 acre. It's already forcing more and more people out of the lease market and forcing more clubs to take in more members on the same amount of land. It's coming. Trust me on this one.
Last edited by abolt300; 04/28/16 08:17 AM.
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: Big AL 76]
#1726991
04/28/16 08:34 AM
04/28/16 08:34 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,437
abolt300
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,437
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Final note, I've still got my big lease but with the annual increases every year, I'm starting to question whether the property is really worth keeping at that significantly higher rate and I make dang good money. The question becomes, it was well worth it at $8/acre is it still worth it at $17.50/acre. You want good hunting, you have the keep the member to acreage ratio down. Our dues started at $1,250/yr. They are now $3,000/yr. I'll also mention that we got the same % annual increases even in 2007-2013 period when the economy was in the toilet, nobody was getting raises, people getting laid off left and right and real estate prices were in freefall. Lease went up like clockwork every year regardless. Same land, same number of members, hunting is great, just paying a whole lot more for it. Owner hasnt done anything but harvest trees on it and if we want the roads fixed/maintained we pretty much have to do it. It's unfortunate but we are all pretty much at the breaking point price wise. We've managed it for years, paid our lease on time, put in a ton of time and effort, been excellent stewards of the land and its a showplace. We as a group are talking about just keeping it for one final year this year letting the kids have at it and just shooting all the 3 yr old and older bucks we've stockpiled over the last 12 years and giving it back in the same herd condition it was in when we got it. No sense in leaving the bucks stockpiled, it will garner $20/acre as it sits right now and we will be helping increase lease prices even further when someone pays that # and it artificially sets the market for all the other leases in that area.
Last edited by abolt300; 04/28/16 08:44 AM.
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: Rebelman]
#1727046
04/28/16 09:36 AM
04/28/16 09:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,561 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,561
Tuscaloosa Co.
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Not also that your lease will include an automatic 5% increase clause each and every year with Westervelt. They have some very good properties but with annual increases, once you keep that property for 5 years and invest the time and money into establishing a good herd and nice place, you'll be paying $15/acre that 5th year. Compounding effect catches up with you quick if you try to do something long term. Keep it for 10 yrs and it will have almost doubled in price to $19.03/acre. So what. You can bet inflation will be around 3%, annually. So you are paying a premium of 2% for a recreational property. I bet those homes on the gulf coast increase the same 5% or more each year. How many of those homes in your example are next to public free housing? Cause that property is next to public land. You mean like the State Parks in Gulf Shores, the public beaches, or the Gulf of Mexico? I'm just saying that all goods and services are going to increase in time due to inflation. 'Luxury' goods and services typically increase more than inflation. As a hunter, I don't like it any more than anyone else on here. It is just the fact. No. None of those you listed are free public housing.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: Ben2]
#1727311
04/28/16 04:18 PM
04/28/16 04:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,722 McCalla
Big AL 76
OP
12 point
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OP
12 point
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,722
McCalla
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Why don't yall that are paying the increased prices ask the leasing company if they can drop the rate for you. They will drop it and keep their happy tenant or have to start over at the lower rate with a new tenant. Seems like current lease holder has all the bargaining power.
You would think so... assume there's always' somebody that will pay higher prices...that's why I cant find any decent cheaper land.
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: Big AL 76]
#1727329
04/28/16 04:33 PM
04/28/16 04:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,580 Clanton
Turkey_neck
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,580
Clanton
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Yep. We have a lease I'm dropping with wheyhauser. All the land around it is 7.50-8.50 a acre we payed 10.30 this year and it's going up to 10.60 this year. I tried to keep it but it really isn't worth it at that price. Someone will lease it I'm sure but not me.
Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
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Re: Westervelt (new)land posted
[Re: Big AL 76]
#1727367
04/28/16 05:05 PM
04/28/16 05:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,686 Falkville
MTeague
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,686
Falkville
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I don't like the high lease prices no more than anyone else but yall do realize that the "timber leases" are still a timber company first. Do you really think they care if a property gets the hunting rights leased or not? The short answer is no. IMO anyone thinking that the lease prices will drop like the housing industry did is nothing short of foolish thinking. I would like to hope they will but in reality the timber comes first and hunting is not even a close second.
I had much rather be tried by twelve than carried to my grave by six!!!!
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