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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1645278
02/09/16 05:00 AM
02/09/16 05:00 AM
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William Offline
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I've been on a similar program with my lawn maintenance. I always mulch especially in the Fall when the leaves are falling. I've read a good bit about this on other websites like Dirt Doctor. They were adamantly opposed to chemical fertilizers stating that they killed the helpful microbes in the soil. I'm assuming the same holds true here?


"The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing... compared to the misery of not being exploited at all."

Joan Robinson
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: William] #1645318
02/09/16 05:31 AM
02/09/16 05:31 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: William
I've been on a similar program with my lawn maintenance. I always mulch especially in the Fall when the leaves are falling. I've read a good bit about this on other websites like Dirt Doctor. They were adamantly opposed to chemical fertilizers stating that they killed the helpful microbes in the soil. I'm assuming the same holds true here?


Yes and no……They’re correct in that chemical fertilizers likely have a negative effect on some of the natural processes that we’re trying to produce with microbes and such. However, its not feasible to think that you can take a field we’ve been tilling and using synthetic fertilizers on for years and just go cold turkey without them through the use of cover crops. There’s just nothing there in the soil to fuel those crops in the beginning. It’s got to be a gradual reduction of inputs over time as the soil becomes more fertile. I still don’t know if we’ll ever be able to completely wean off of N if we want to produce the kinds of winter yields many of us need on small acreage to keep up with browsing. It’ll likely always be a little bit of a balancing act for us between different philosophies.


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1645388
02/09/16 06:16 AM
02/09/16 06:16 AM
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Tuscaloosa Co.
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How long can the soil stay wet and the microbes still live?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1645393
02/09/16 06:17 AM
02/09/16 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS


Have you done it on plots like described?


Our biggest field at the hunting club stays fairly wet and its been one of our best plots…..the clover does especially well there. I don’t know if its wet to the point you are dealing with but when my buddy use to hunt the land years ago he would have years when it was too wet to plant in this field. We planted it last year in the rain using throw and mow. Had you been trying to till that day it would have been a mud bog.



How big is the field that you're talking about?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1645511
02/09/16 07:43 AM
02/09/16 07:43 AM
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When I find a decent 4 row planter I will convert to no till with cover crops. Til then Im staying with tillage. I do want to save hrs on tractor and hold moisture but I just haven't found the right planter yet.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: N2TRKYS] #1645520
02/09/16 07:51 AM
02/09/16 07:51 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
How long can the soil stay wet and the microbes still live?


I’m not sure.

Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
How big is the field that you're talking about?


The field here at my home property is a little over 2 acres and the big field at the hunting club is a little over 3. Everything else is 1 acre or less.

I might throw this out there too. Aside from the benefits in soil fertility……this type of approach to food plotting makes fall planting much, much simpler. I’m sure there are several on here that can attest to that after this last fall. Cereal grains and clovers work very well with throw and mow.

Last edited by CNC; 02/09/16 07:52 AM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1645561
02/09/16 08:16 AM
02/09/16 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
How long can the soil stay wet and the microbes still live?


I’m not sure.

Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
How big is the field that you're talking about?


The field here at my home property is a little over 2 acres and the big field at the hunting club is a little over 3. Everything else is 1 acre or less.

I might throw this out there too. Aside from the benefits in soil fertility……this type of approach to food plotting makes fall planting much, much simpler. I’m sure there are several on here that can attest to that after this last fall. Cereal grains and clovers work very well with throw and mow.


I'm gonna give cereal rye a try again next year, but it didn't do well this year. Everything else did, just not the rye. If I had plots that large and dry I wouldn't have any problems. I've just been curious if doing this method would allow me to bank more tonnage for the late season, but haven't seen that to be the case, yet. Maybe somebody will have an example that mirrors ours.

If I planted a Spring plot, it would almost be floating on water in a normal year.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1645662
02/09/16 10:11 AM
02/09/16 10:11 AM
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CNC you said you put out 50 lbs of 33-0-0 at planting and 100 lbs six weeks later. Do you mean product/acre or lbs nitrogen/acre? Or is that all the fertilizer you applied?

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: Waldo] #1645805
02/09/16 12:18 PM
02/09/16 12:18 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: Waldo
CNC you said you put out 50 lbs of 33-0-0 at planting and 100 lbs six weeks later. Do you mean product/acre or lbs nitrogen/acre? Or is that all the fertilizer you applied?


I’m referring to one 50 lb bag per acre of 33-0-0 at planting and 2 bags per acre 5-6 weeks later…….P,K, and Ca are adjusted and held near optimal levels year round through periodic soil testing.


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1645939
02/09/16 02:07 PM
02/09/16 02:07 PM
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William Offline
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What are the Spring clovers to sow? Crimson? Aren't the perennial whites best to frost seed in the Fall? White Dutch is pretty cheap and does well here.


"The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing... compared to the misery of not being exploited at all."

Joan Robinson
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: William] #1646413
02/10/16 03:08 AM
02/10/16 03:08 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: William
What are the Spring clovers to sow? Crimson? Aren't the perennial whites best to frost seed in the Fall? White Dutch is pretty cheap and does well here.


……crimson, durana, ladino, arrowleaf, dutch white…..

I've never tried sowing clover in the spring. Always just throw it in will mu fall mix.


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1647338
02/10/16 06:10 PM
02/10/16 06:10 PM
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Posts: 2,685
West Florida
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: William
I've been on a similar program with my lawn maintenance. I always mulch especially in the Fall when the leaves are falling. I've read a good bit about this on other websites like Dirt Doctor. They were adamantly opposed to chemical fertilizers stating that they killed the helpful microbes in the soil. I'm assuming the same holds true here?


Yes and no……They’re correct in that chemical fertilizers likely have a negative effect on some of the natural processes that we’re trying to produce with microbes and such. However, its not feasible to think that you can take a field we’ve been tilling and using synthetic fertilizers on for years and just go cold turkey without them through the use of cover crops. There’s just nothing there in the soil to fuel those crops in the beginning. It’s got to be a gradual reduction of inputs over time as the soil becomes more fertile. I still don’t know if we’ll ever be able to completely wean off of N if we want to produce the kinds of winter yields many of us need on small acreage to keep up with browsing. It’ll likely always be a little bit of a balancing act for us between different philosophies.


CNC. I agree with most of what you have to say but will have to disagree with you on this. I've gone cold turkey on traditional fertilizers the last three years and I have healthier better looking plots than ever. I use mostly sea minerals, but have also put out raw non pasturized milk, and will be using worm tea this year as well. This method focuses on feeding and growing the microbe population in the soil and letting them feed the plants. And a side benefit is that it cost a lot less as well.

This was taken 1/16. It's had less than 100lbs of traditional fertilizer in total the last 3 years. It is also a throw and mow plot of oats.



Last edited by westflgator; 02/10/16 06:29 PM.
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1647412
02/10/16 09:29 PM
02/10/16 09:29 PM
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Hartselle
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New to the throw N mow,and have a few questions for the experts... studying up now for fall planting. I'm going to use cereal rye,oats,crimson clover,and trying to decide on which of these to add rape,turnips,or radishes.
I'm also wondering seed rate (lbs.) per acre for each to use for this method.
From the other thread I noticed it was as simple as the name suggests (throw N mow) but can I spray say a few weeks prior of throw N mow? What is you suggestions on this? I don't like weeds.

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: westflgator] #1647466
02/11/16 03:20 AM
02/11/16 03:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: westflgator
[
CNC. I agree with most of what you have to say but will have to disagree with you on this. I've gone cold turkey on traditional fertilizers the last three years and I have healthier better looking plots than ever. I use mostly sea minerals, but have also put out raw non pasturized milk, and will be using worm tea this year as well. This method focuses on feeding and growing the microbe population in the soil and letting them feed the plants. And a side benefit is that it cost a lot less as well.

This was taken 1/16. It's had less than 100lbs of traditional fertilizer in total the last 3 years. It is also a throw and mow plot of oats.


I’m all for mimicking natural processes as much as possible and weaning off synthetics. I haven’t tried any of the things you mentioned but wouldn’t be opposed to testing them. Have you sent in any soil samples to see how these products effect your nutrients, pH, etc???


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: SCR00BK] #1647468
02/11/16 03:20 AM
02/11/16 03:20 AM
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Posts: 21,535
Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: SCR00BK
New to the throw N mow,and have a few questions for the experts... studying up now for fall planting. I'm going to use cereal rye,oats,crimson clover,and trying to decide on which of these to add rape,turnips,or radishes.
I'm also wondering seed rate (lbs.) per acre for each to use for this method.
From the other thread I noticed it was as simple as the name suggests (throw N mow) but can I spray say a few weeks prior of throw N mow? What is you suggestions on this? I don't like weeds.


Nothing wrong with spraying a couple weeks ahead of mowing if that’s what you want to do. This method provides you with options. There’s no one set way…..only general principles that we work toward. I’ve went to planting my fall plots without spraying. I get some minor regrowth from summer stuff but not enough to matter and the first frost takes care of it. It just simplifies the process even more.

Last edited by CNC; 02/11/16 03:21 AM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1647494
02/11/16 03:44 AM
02/11/16 03:44 AM
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Lincoln, Alabama
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Westflgator, where do you get sea minerals,raw nonpasterized milk, and worm tea? Please elaborate on what each does for the soil, how they are applied and the cost per acre. Thanks

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1647520
02/11/16 04:05 AM
02/11/16 04:05 AM
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West Florida
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: westflgator
[
CNC. I agree with most of what you have to say but will have to disagree with you on this. I've gone cold turkey on traditional fertilizers the last three years and I have healthier better looking plots than ever. I use mostly sea minerals, but have also put out raw non pasturized milk, and will be using worm tea this year as well. This method focuses on feeding and growing the microbe population in the soil and letting them feed the plants. And a side benefit is that it cost a lot less as well.

This was taken 1/16. It's had less than 100lbs of traditional fertilizer in total the last 3 years. It is also a throw and mow plot of oats.


I’m all for mimicking natural processes as much as possible and weaning off synthetics. I haven’t tried any of the things you mentioned but wouldn’t be opposed to testing them. Have you sent in any soil samples to see how these products effect your nutrients, pH, etc???


I'm fixing to send in my samples before spring, but I test the BRIX level of my plants, which is a very good indicator of the health of the plant. If you have a high BRIX you are doing something right...mine still has room to get better but it's probably higher than most folks who use traditional fertilizers even though their plots may be really pretty and green, which doesn't always tell the whole story. If your BRIX is high they will walk across your neighbors to eat yours. Checking the BRIX is really testing the soluble sugar content of the plant which is directly related to it's health. It's a really good and simple way to check the quality of your plots.

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1647604
02/11/16 05:02 AM
02/11/16 05:02 AM
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William Offline
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By worm tea, do you mean like a green tea? It's basically organic matter that has been decomposed in water. I like to think of it as pond water or swamp water. I make it for the yard by throwing a bale of hay in a rain barrel and adding some compost to get the organisms working.


"The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing... compared to the misery of not being exploited at all."

Joan Robinson
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: westflgator] #1647628
02/11/16 05:20 AM
02/11/16 05:20 AM
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Tuscaloosa Co.
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Originally Posted By: westflgator
Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: westflgator
[
CNC. I agree with most of what you have to say but will have to disagree with you on this. I've gone cold turkey on traditional fertilizers the last three years and I have healthier better looking plots than ever. I use mostly sea minerals, but have also put out raw non pasturized milk, and will be using worm tea this year as well. This method focuses on feeding and growing the microbe population in the soil and letting them feed the plants. And a side benefit is that it cost a lot less as well.

This was taken 1/16. It's had less than 100lbs of traditional fertilizer in total the last 3 years. It is also a throw and mow plot of oats.


I’m all for mimicking natural processes as much as possible and weaning off synthetics. I haven’t tried any of the things you mentioned but wouldn’t be opposed to testing them. Have you sent in any soil samples to see how these products effect your nutrients, pH, etc???


I'm fixing to send in my samples before spring, but I test the BRIX level of my plants, which is a very good indicator of the health of the plant. If you have a high BRIX you are doing something right...mine still has room to get better but it's probably higher than most folks who use traditional fertilizers even though their plots may be really pretty and green, which doesn't always tell the whole story. If your BRIX is high they will walk across your neighbors to eat yours. Checking the BRIX is really testing the soluble sugar content of the plant which is directly related to it's health. It's a really good and simple way to check the quality of your plots.


How do you test for BRIX and how do you raise its levels?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #1647655
02/11/16 05:40 AM
02/11/16 05:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,685
West Florida
westflgator Offline
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I'm going to be tied up today but I will follow up on those questions when I get in this evening...I will say this, cost of of incorporating all three is $15-18 per acre not counting tractor fuel.

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