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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: ]
#1554194
12/09/15 04:59 AM
12/09/15 04:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,153 Leeds
Smells
OP
8 point
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OP
8 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,153
Leeds
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Couple of things. How in the heck do ya'll know if it was a doe or buck that pooped in a scrape? That's all new info to me. Deer of both sexes pee near or in scrapes. The pooping part is new to me. I've seen deer poop near scrapes during random occurrences, but poop is generally not used as a marking indicator in deer, or so I have always thought. They poop after leaving their bed and where they feed. This would be totally new info to me. Can y'all tell this is the first I've ever read that?
Also, the phase of the moon is in no way correlated with the timing of the rut. Does are genetically programmed to come into estrous about the same time period each year. Several studies have completely thrown out the moon phase/rut timing theory. Moon phase may very well have a slight impact on the timing of deer movement and feeding patterns, but not the timing of estrous.
I don't hunt buck sign much. It's been a futile endeavor for the last couple of decades. Only exception is finding clusters of rubs/scrapes in or near very thick cover. I'm glad you chimed in. I was hoping you would. Being the novice, I would not presume to argue with the biologist, however, I have personally observed doe droppings in fresh scrapes. I can't tell you where I got the idea that this was a doe signaling a buck to come find her because I can't remember. Has anyone ever observed a doe visiting a scrape? As for the difference between doe and buck droppings, and again I don't remember where I got this, it's my understanding that doe pellets are smaller and are found in a loose pile and that buck pellets are larger and will usually be stuck together or clumped. This is generally what I see in the woods but I haven't yet been able to watch a buck crap so I can run up as soon as he's done and examine it. If I'm wrong I need to know it which is the point of this thread. One more thing, I have often observed what I believe are doe droppings in a fresh scrape but I have yet to see what I believe would be buck droppings within a fresh scrape. Now that doesn't really mean anything but that's just what I have observed.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Smells]
#1554204
12/09/15 05:07 AM
12/09/15 05:07 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
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Clumping or not clumping of " deer pellets" has to do with diet and if they've been bedded for a while. Can't tell sex by poop, far as I know, unless you see it when it's being done.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Smells]
#1554218
12/09/15 05:17 AM
12/09/15 05:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,251 coffee county
goodman_hunter
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,251
coffee county
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2 things, #1 i read something from a deer farm owner, and he said big racks are 75% thrown from the doe, not the buck.
#2 and this is in response to 2dogs, When i was about 15, I use to walk around a 5-6 acre block in front of my house, looking for rabbits, then cross the road and stalk hunt squirrels. the small block was shaped like a triangle, with the road running on one side. while walking along the edge next to the field i seen deer tracks going into the block, went around the corner and just started walking the second edge that bordered the field and heard the deer jump, went back to corner and seen doe running across the field. when i continued to walk the second side 3 deer cut out that direction, I shot at them, but they were stretched out, looked, no blood, decided to go back home, so started back tracking from were I had come, got around the corner and seen bigdaddy heading out across the field in the direction the first doe went. He was laid up in this 5 acre block with 4 does.
For without victory, there is no survival
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Smells]
#1554259
12/09/15 05:49 AM
12/09/15 05:49 AM
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Couple of things. How in the heck do ya'll know if it was a doe or buck that pooped in a scrape? That's all new info to me. Deer of both sexes pee near or in scrapes. The pooping part is new to me. I've seen deer poop near scrapes during random occurrences, but poop is generally not used as a marking indicator in deer, or so I have always thought. They poop after leaving their bed and where they feed. This would be totally new info to me. Can y'all tell this is the first I've ever read that?
Also, the phase of the moon is in no way correlated with the timing of the rut. Does are genetically programmed to come into estrous about the same time period each year. Several studies have completely thrown out the moon phase/rut timing theory. Moon phase may very well have a slight impact on the timing of deer movement and feeding patterns, but not the timing of estrous.
I don't hunt buck sign much. It's been a futile endeavor for the last couple of decades. Only exception is finding clusters of rubs/scrapes in or near very thick cover. I'm glad you chimed in. I was hoping you would. Being the novice, I would not presume to argue with the biologist, however, I have personally observed doe droppings in fresh scrapes. I can't tell you where I got the idea that this was a doe signaling a buck to come find her because I can't remember. Has anyone ever observed a doe visiting a scrape? As for the difference between doe and buck droppings, and again I don't remember where I got this, it's my understanding that doe pellets are smaller and are found in a loose pile and that buck pellets are larger and will usually be stuck together or clumped. This is generally what I see in the woods but I haven't yet been able to watch a buck crap so I can run up as soon as he's done and examine it. If I'm wrong I need to know it which is the point of this thread. One more thing, I have often observed what I believe are doe droppings in a fresh scrape but I have yet to see what I believe would be buck droppings within a fresh scrape. Now that doesn't really mean anything but that's just what I have observed. Yes, does will visit scrapes regularly, just like bucks. Scrapes are usually associated with a signpost limb overhanging the scrape, where they leave scent from their preorbital and forehead glands. Both bucks and does do this. There is no way to determine buck from doe feces unless you watched it fall. Clumped poop vs. droppings has more to do with the deer's activity level and diet. Active deer poop is not as clumped as deer that have been up and active. You often find clumped poop near a bedding area. I'm certainly not denying deer pooping in scrapes, but I've not seen it. Maybe my deer are weird.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Smells]
#1554400
12/09/15 07:21 AM
12/09/15 07:21 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
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Seen scrapes with poop in them many times, never knew if it was buck or doe. Don't know what it means ,if it's important to the breeding process.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: goodman_hunter]
#1554405
12/09/15 07:22 AM
12/09/15 07:22 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
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2 things, #1 i read something from a deer farm owner, and he said big racks are 75% thrown from the doe, not the buck.
#2 and this is in response to 2dogs, When i was about 15, I use to walk around a 5-6 acre block in front of my house, looking for rabbits, then cross the road and stalk hunt squirrels. the small block was shaped like a triangle, with the road running on one side. while walking along the edge next to the field i seen deer tracks going into the block, went around the corner and just started walking the second edge that bordered the field and heard the deer jump, went back to corner and seen doe running across the field. when i continued to walk the second side 3 deer cut out that direction, I shot at them, but they were stretched out, looked, no blood, decided to go back home, so started back tracking from were I had come, got around the corner and seen bigdaddy heading out across the field in the direction the first doe went. He was laid up in this 5 acre block with 4 does. I'm not sure I'm following.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Smells]
#1554471
12/09/15 07:56 AM
12/09/15 07:56 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 331 Madison, AL
JohnGibby
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 331
Madison, AL
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Maybe the poop in a scrape is kind of like negative user feedback, along the lines of 0-1 star Amazon reviews.
"He just jumped on me with no foreplay. Wham. Bam. But no 'thank you mam'."
"Dude, don't bother. I had to chase and chase and chase her. Took forever and I can't believe I passed up those other gals for her. Then she wanted to cuddle and nuzzle afterwards. And now she won't stop calling me asking when I'm going to take her out to dinner next."
Love God. Love people. Serve Christ.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Ryano]
#1554488
12/09/15 08:07 AM
12/09/15 08:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,153 Leeds
Smells
OP
8 point
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OP
8 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,153
Leeds
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I have seen droppings in scrapes many times as well. Never early season though. This is the thing right here. I haven't paid close enough attention and am trying to do better this year but I think, rightly or wrongly, that there is a relationship in the timing of all of this. First, a handful of scrapes way too early for the rut, which most of seem to go untended once made. Next, an explosion of scrapes, which means we are getting closer and the bucks are beginning to seriously advertise but the does are not ready yet and there are no droppings in the scrapes. Finally, the does become biologically ready and the droppings start showing up in some of the favored scrapes. This is what I mean when I wonder if a scrape is a fairly accurate clock. None of it means much, with respect to the commencement of the rut until the doe droppings show up in the scrapes. This is what I think but I really have no idea whether this is what acctually is.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Smells]
#1554504
12/09/15 08:15 AM
12/09/15 08:15 AM
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Maybe I've seen poop in scrapes before but didn't make a mental marker on it because it wasn't something I thought o be significant.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: JohnGibby]
#1554603
12/09/15 09:20 AM
12/09/15 09:20 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
|
Maybe the poop in a scrape is kind of like negative user feedback, along the lines of 0-1 star Amazon reviews.
"He just jumped on me with no foreplay. Wham. Bam. But no 'thank you mam'."
"Dude, don't bother. I had to chase and chase and chase her. Took forever and I can't believe I passed up those other gals for her. Then she wanted to cuddle and nuzzle afterwards. And now she won't stop calling me asking when I'm going to take her out to dinner next." I think this gentleman has it figured out.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Smells]
#1554623
12/09/15 09:27 AM
12/09/15 09:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,251 coffee county
goodman_hunter
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,251
coffee county
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2dogs my bad that was alot of info to type to just say, I gathered from that situation that bucks will follow and tend a doe, possible bed with her for a couple of days, Now that could be because it was right around Dec 25th which is the beggining of the rut here that event led me to believe they might lay with them a little longer, but cant really say one way or the other.
For without victory, there is no survival
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Smells]
#1554628
12/09/15 09:32 AM
12/09/15 09:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,251 coffee county
goodman_hunter
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,251
coffee county
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who's gonna be the first one to poop in a scrape to see if it tricks the bucks into hanging around?
For without victory, there is no survival
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: goodman_hunter]
#1554631
12/09/15 09:33 AM
12/09/15 09:33 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
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2dogs my bad that was alot of info to type to just say, I gathered from that situation that bucks will follow and tend a doe, possible bed with her for a couple of days, Now that could be because it was right around Dec 25th which is the beggining of the rut here that event led me to believe they might lay with them a little longer, but cant really say one way or the other. I got ya, he was prolly shadowing them, bedding with them, waiting on them to " come in".
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: goodman_hunter]
#1554636
12/09/15 09:35 AM
12/09/15 09:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
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who's gonna be the first one to poop in a scrape to see if it tricks the bucks into hanging around? What brand tissue should we use?
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Just want to make sure I've got this right
[Re: Squadron77]
#1554653
12/09/15 09:42 AM
12/09/15 09:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231 AL
dreadpiratebob
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231
AL
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Don't worry about scraps or rubs. A doe will go into estrus around the new moon. The mature buck will find a doe close to estrus and stay with her until she is ready to breed and he will breed her for one to two days and then look for another doe. A mature buck may only breed 3-4 does a year. About the first quarter there are fewer does for the buck to breed so now you start seeing the mature bucks on their feet most of the day looking for does that haven't been bred. This is the best time to hunt and you will see bucks cruising around a food source or bedding areas. Here is one of the tricks that I have learned about the rut, if you or one of your buddies kill a mature buck get back in that stand as quickly as possible. Mature bucks are never alone in the rut, they are close to hot does and always have other bucks following them. The vast majority of what you have said has been disproved by many scientific studies. Not saying that deer movement doesn't have some correlation to the moon, but the rut and a doe going into estrus has literally zilch to do with the moon.
Last edited by dreadpiratebob; 12/09/15 09:45 AM.
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