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Buck Dispersion
#1471272
10/04/15 12:46 PM
10/04/15 12:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,778 Alabama
3FFarms
OP
ALDEER SPONSOR
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OP
ALDEER SPONSOR
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,778
Alabama
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We've had our place going on its 5th year. EVERY year we have a pile of 2-3 year old bucks. Always. Without question. However, we rarely see or get pictures of bucks that are 4,5,6 years old. We aren't shooting them, neighbors aren't shooting them...they literally just disappear. Poof, gone. We have a cooperative of 4 landowners totaling about 1200 acres. In 5 years, we have taken roughly 20 bucks. Of those 20, I would say 2 were 2.5, 8 were 3.5 and 10 were 4.5+. I would say, conservatively, we hold one buck/15 acres, or roughly 100 bucks on the 1200 total. Of those, I would say that less than 10% are 4.5 or older. My question, if we are able to hold such a number of 3.5 and younger deer, where are the mature bucks going? Will they not tolerate all of the younger deer and their shenanigans? Would killing some of the younger bucks actually help our ability to hold and harvest mature deer? Just looking for opinions.
Ya'll are just overthinking it now
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471299
10/04/15 01:13 PM
10/04/15 01:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,166 Florence, Al
AlabamaSwamper
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,166
Florence, Al
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I have almost 0 range shifting. I run a bunch of cameras.
Now bucks simply vanishing in summer months with old mature bucks is common. Guess they die
BTR Scorer in NW Alabama
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471323
10/04/15 01:35 PM
10/04/15 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,540 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,540
Awbarn, AL
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I would be willing to bet that more bucks die each year due to fighting related injuries or rigors of the rut than what people realize. I was looking at a buck skull the other day from one I killed and noticed a place on his skull between his antlers that looked like a puncture wound. It looked like it had fractured his skull in that little spot but didn't go all the way through to his brain....eventually healing up. Not all bucks are that lucky though. If they get a severe enough wound to the top of the skull it can cause eventual death due to infection so close to the brain. That's what I've heard anyways. Maybe one of the biologists could verify that.
Last edited by CNC; 10/04/15 01:37 PM.
The Corn Crash!!!
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471339
10/04/15 01:48 PM
10/04/15 01:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,329 Northeast Florida
BamaGrad85
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,329
Northeast Florida
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I suspect they're still there just nocturnal. I had a big 8 pointer that was easily 5.5 years or older. I got him on camera twice before bow season opened. That was it though. I got him on camera again in February after the season went out in the same area as before season. I can't help but believe that the cameras spooked him. We're running cameras this year but not checking them as much as we did last season. We also changed out planting routine this year. In the past we've sprayed the fields then came back with disc and planted. This year we deep plowed them, disced to powder then planted. Hoping for better results.
I came, I saw, so I killed them all......Vern
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471344
10/04/15 01:53 PM
10/04/15 01:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
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Some disperse, some become nocturnal, some become camera shy, natural and unnatural mortality. I'll still bet $ there are more there than you think. At 4 they're getting pretty slick.
Just re-read your post, you say 50% were 4.5 or older , sounds like you're killing some of them. 50% of bucks killed over a few years time 4.5 and older sounds pretty good to me.
I think you don't have as big of a problem as you think you do.
Last edited by 2Dogs; 10/04/15 02:04 PM.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471354
10/04/15 02:03 PM
10/04/15 02:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999 Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
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I agree with 2Dogs to an extent...
It is different from place to place and from time of year to time of year.
We hold a ton of mature bucks during the spring and summer months but during the winter they typically range off the property. Just a difference in summer and winter home ranges.
Mature bucks also demand the best range. I've seen deer up and leave moderate habitat on a well managed place and move 2.5-3 miles and set up shop as a 4 year old. He moved to prime habitat on the same property.
If you aren't seeing them you likely have more than you think...but there may be something missing too. May be worth an in-depth look.
Last edited by NightHunter; 10/04/15 02:04 PM.
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: NightHunter]
#1471371
10/04/15 02:18 PM
10/04/15 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780 central ala,
centralala
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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It is different from place to place and from time of year to time of year.
...and from deer to deer. Dayum thangs are worse than women. I feel if you can get 50% of a herd reacting the same you are doing dang good. The other 50% is still going to be all over the board. Such as the way a herd reacts to a front coming through. Or the moon. Or heavy wind. Dispersion should be the same with variability.
Last edited by centralala; 10/04/15 02:19 PM.
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: centralala]
#1471422
10/04/15 02:47 PM
10/04/15 02:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999 Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
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It is different from place to place and from time of year to time of year.
...and from deer to deer. Dayum thangs are worse than women. Very true! Some are home bodies some aren't. Some are extremely territorial/aggressive and some are very passive. Fickle critters.
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471605
10/04/15 04:21 PM
10/04/15 04:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 Birmingham
truedouble
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
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It's been said before, but cameras can by the best and worst thing that ever happened to modern day hunters. I remember BSK telling me that he watched mature bucks walk off the trail to make a point to avoid a trail camera, and then get back on the trail after they passed the camera. Not saying every or even most mature bucks avoid cameras, but no doubt some do. Just cause your not getting pics doesn't mean they aren't there…this is something I have to remind myself as well.
That being said, assuming they aren't dead, you should expect to be able to follow some of your bucks from 3 to 4 to 5. From my experience, if I have 10 3.5 year olds, I might have 4 or 5 at 4 and maybe 1 or 2 at 5. We have well over 5,000 acres of contiguous land (owned by several landowners) that is well managed and a lot of these bucks never die of a bullet or car. Go figure.
Also, with 1200 acres it's very possible some of your bucks are going to another property off of the 1200 acres.
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471633
10/04/15 04:33 PM
10/04/15 04:33 PM
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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What 2dogs and NH said, and truedouble too.
Natural mortality kills more mature bucks than most realize. They also just decide to move sometimes, and don't come back, even when all their needs are met. On 1200 acres I can guarantee you more bucks are getting killed off your property than you'd ever care to know. Most mature bucks will wonder from your 1200 at some time in the season, some of them miles.
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471650
10/04/15 04:41 PM
10/04/15 04:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,778 Alabama
3FFarms
OP
ALDEER SPONSOR
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OP
ALDEER SPONSOR
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,778
Alabama
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Thanks guys. All great info and I appreciate each of the opinions expressed thus far. Will mature deer seek solitude away from other bucks once the hormones get going and bachelor groups start busting up? Would any of you suggest trying to target inferior 3 year olds to make it more hospitable for mature deer?
Ya'll are just overthinking it now
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471688
10/04/15 05:08 PM
10/04/15 05:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,839 Mobile, AL
SouthBamaSlayer
Gary's Fluffer
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Gary's Fluffer
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,839
Mobile, AL
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Thanks guys. All great info and I appreciate each of the opinions expressed thus far. Will mature deer seek solitude away from other bucks once the hormones get going and bachelor groups start busting up? Would any of you suggest trying to target inferior 3 year olds to make it more hospitable for mature deer? Nooooo don't do that. Mature bucks travel, and can travel a long way throughout the season. They can travel a mile and a half per day during the rut. Keep your doe numbers down on your land and the land next to your to keep those bucks on their feet looking come the rut.
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471716
10/04/15 05:24 PM
10/04/15 05:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,181 Huntsville, AL
Claims Rep.
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,181
Huntsville, AL
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I killed my biggest buck back in Jan. 2014. This buck was estimated at a minimum of 5 1/2 years old. Had one guy say 7+. Anyway, our biologist has a lot of cameras out all over the place, and he told me he had NEVER seen my buck before. Never. My thought at that time was "If he's never seen this buck before, how many more are out there that have never stepped in front a camera?"
3F, with the situation you described, I'd guess they are still there for the most part. Like others have said, the deer just know how to avoid the cameras, etc. Might be interesting if you set up a camera watching a camera you've had out for a while that the deer may already know of. Those old bucks get old for a reason.
Jesus... I hope you know Him personally like I do.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Proud crossbow hunter!
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471818
10/05/15 12:05 AM
10/05/15 12:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 Thomasville, AL
Hogwild
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
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They are individuals.....and, they move a long way at times.....several miles in fact. And, there does not have to be a 'reason'. Also, their personality has a lot to do with it. Some bucks are aggressive and bully all the others. Some are very submissive and will avoid interaction with other bucks. Then, you take the fact the Social Structure is being constantly disrupted as bucks are taken out of the herd during hunting season....and couple that with the Rut happening at the end of a long hunting season......and, the result is a virtual 'musical chairs' of bucks moving around!!!! The Social Structure is so dynamic, with so many variables, that there is no clear answer to why, how or when bucks will 'move'.
BUT, I can assure you this, they DO move!
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Re: Buck Dispersion
[Re: 3FFarms]
#1471824
10/05/15 12:17 AM
10/05/15 12:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 Thomasville, AL
Hogwild
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
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Also, I also know for a fact that you can 'recruit' new mature bucks onto our property. They cannot be stockpiled on one property! Habitat management, Supplemental feeding and low pressure with Sanctuary Areas (yes, I will regret that with the current flurry of Sanctuary jokes ) that provide bucks with a secure environment attracts bucks from other properties where they are being 'suppressed' in the Social Structure. Some properties are just better than others for no obvious reason. It seems like every year that there are numerous mature bucks taken off of them.....with virtually no end. And, oddly enough, these properties are sometimes hunted hard and not managed well. Really makes NO sense! But, the reason is usually social structure of the herd and nearby properties that are 'raising' bucks that are dispersing in and taking the place of bucks that have been killed.
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