Alright guys, I need a little schooling from some of the gurus on here. I'm a member of an NC deer forum and it seems that coyotes have been a hot topic over there. There's a guy, much like the former 49er on here (he has a PhD in copy and paste), who is posting fervently about coyotes being the main factor in lower deer numbers. Apparently yotes in NC haven't been around as long as in Bama. Anywho, I tried to point out that fawning cover is an important factor in how many survive. This dude says cover doesn't matter in the survival rate for fawns. Also he posted up a 2011 article, which had quotes from an AU professor who posts on here occasionally, about the decline in Ft. Rucker's deer population. Basically saying that it is proof that yotes are the main reason AL's herd is decreasing.

So since we have trained biologists on this site I'd like to here their professional opinion on: Does cover have any significant affect on the fawn survival rate? Are coyotes the main reason our herd has declined in some areas (I figure the liberal doe limits are more to blame but I'm no expert)? In the mountainous regions is carrying capacity more of a factor in deer numbers than simple predation?

Seems like a lot of the guys in the NC deer forum are thinking the yotes are going to wipe out the deer population. I tend to believe that can do damage to the herd but they aren't nearly as bad as some claim. So please school me. If I am incorrect in my assumptions then I'll let this troll win. Though I really think this dude is full of it. What say ye?

Yotes are having an impact in areas where fawning cover is poor. I think all biologists would agree with that statement for the most part. I heard a state Regional Biologist give a lecture about that specific study and he basically said the sample size was low and the fawning cover was very inadequate at the site that was studied.

Coyotes have lived here almost as long as deer. Before the votes were here, it was red wolves, mountain lions, and several other carnivores. The deer have always seemed to manage. I won't argue that they may be having an impact in some areas. I have no proof to either confirm or deny it. I will say that providing appropriate cover seems the most logical remedy to me. You will NEVER eliminate coyotes. Some of the latest research indicates that they increase their litter size when attempts are made at extermination. Since coyotes are territorial, some biologists hypothesize that attempts at eradication actually make your problem worse as new packs move in and try to take the place of the ones that are gone. A widespread reduction in coyotes doesn't seem feasible, improving the available cover for raising fawns seems relatively easy by comparison.

....as well as reducing doe harvests.

Guy doesn't think cover is important for fawn survival V yotes, needs to get away from the interweb and keyboard and into the woods.

My thoughts exactly 2dogs.

I agree with all ya'll but to what point does cover override a coyotes nose. I know fawns are born with little to no scent but I'm sure with damp weather or few weeks of ages odors must occur and there is no fooling a coyotes nose.

What Mr. Clif said. It's like the old saying about "you can't outrun radar". Well, you can't get in briers so thick that a coyote won't smell you or just simply stumble across you. No doubt thick cover is FAR better than sparse cover, but I suspect the advantage is miniscule. If a rabbit can't hide from coyotes, a fawn dang sure can't. It's an arguable point I know, but I feel like the coyote problem is collossally bigger than most folks comprehend. It's like 5-alarm big! You see, I believe (from personal observation) that coyotes also kill adult deer to some extent these days.

There are lots of University Studies on fawn predation involving coyotes. The percentages vary from the mid-teens to the high seventies as to what percentage fawns are killed by coyotes. This indicates that no one really knows what the fawn predation rate is.

Standbanger is right, I have read at least 8 or 10 different studies on fawn predation from coyotes, and the conclusions vary widely. Best to look at coyotes as ONE of the many causes of fawn death, and the odds are that they are not THE major factor. Other factors include other predators (bobcats, bears, hogs (yes hogs), environmental factors (heat stress, availability of food for the mothers), available fawning cover, and have even been reading lately about the possibility that use of ROUNDUP (glyphosphate) on crops might be causing infertility in some deer. Does that mean the coyotes aren't a problem? Not at all, I shoot every one I come across to help control them, but the truth is, coyotes are like hogs, once you have them, you can't every get rid of them completely, so just do your best to control them. If your interest is in increasing your successful fawning rate, you would probably be better off putting your resources toward providing high-quality feed to the does during the Spring and Summer and praying for mild weather rather than worrying about the yotes.

Coyotes are here to stay. I've dealt with the issue by improving bedding areas and cover crops, and shooting fewer does.

I would surmise that the reason the studies vary so widely is probably because the habitat varies widely, that's exactly what we're discussing here. Secondly, how old does a fawn need to be before it can outrun a coyote like a mature deer can? I would guess several months old at the most. Fawns don't need years of protection, just a few months. Lastly, coyotes are opportunistic feeders like most animals. While they may target fawns if they can, they're not going to bypass other meals that may be easier to catch if they're available. Improving fawning cover should also benefit rabbits, mice, and other food sources for yotes.

All valid points no cure all plan of attack for every area but improving fawning habit, killing as many predators as possible and a reduction in doe harvest would help most where deer densities are starting to thin. I've yet to have a Biologist agree we are over harvesting does but I know a few areas I belive it is so.

Go follow Mark Buxton on fb and see what he has done to some of his properties by trapping, improving habitat, and offering palatable food sources. Coyotes are a huge problem in Al but like already said, they are just a piece of the puzzle.

I agree that cover helps a lot. But I have noticed a extremely good rabbit population compared to last year. There is rabbits everywhere up in my neck of the woods this year.

How come coyotes are so good at catching fawns in pines so thick u can't walk through yet u go out west in states like Kansas and nebraska where there is basically no thick cover and way more coyotes but deer everywhere. Place I hunted in Illinois once had yotes everywhere and nothing but farmland and open timber and deer were thick as fleas.

Hunting those states makes me second guess coyotes affect on deer numbers as some biologist down south claim. I know they eat some fawns but you'd think they would wipe the deer out in the plains and Midwest if that was the case.

How many small game animals are out there? And the sheep numbers out there are strong also, I think.. But you may be on to something..

I know in nebraska Daniel, you'd kill a pack of rabbit dogs. I wish we had that many here and there are plenty of rabbits where I hunt but nothing like out there

. Deer density is typically lower in the Midwest than the South. Coyotes and deer have coexisted for a long time in the Midwest and have found their natural balance. Coyotes arrived en masse in the South as deer populations peaked in the 80s and 90s. Liberal buck and doe seasons were implemented to control the booming population of deer, without thought to the coyotes impact. Coyotes and deer are beginning to find their natural balance and that may leave deer numbers lower than what many hunters in the south are accustomed to or want. Eastern coyotes are larger than western coyotes probably because of mixing with red wolves. Genetically, the eastern coyote may be more geared toward larger game than the western coyote. The same thick cover that protects the fawn in the south also protects the coyote. It's hard to kill what you rarely see. Providing good fawning habitat and limiting doe harvest may not be enough for some areas with low deer numbers and a high coyote population. In these situations, trapping is the only way to have enough of an impact on the coyote population to allow deer numbers to rebound. Just some thoughts and opinions formed from studying about and fooling with them for 35 years.

One reason there are so many deer in the midwest is the ratio of gun days as opposed to bow days. Once youve spent time there you'll see we are a different animal than 80% of the yankees.
Most of them go meatless until gun days, they are very poor hunters. While most of us are very comfortable 25-30 ft up, most of the have a 12' ladder stand. There are just so much I could tell about what I saw, but the main topic is deer numbers. When you dont have guns so many days, deer have a big advantage.

Coyotes historical range is the southwest, they r not supposed to be in the southeast. My brother is a wildlife biology graduate from auburn and has done a good bit of research on yotes. Fawn cover is very important as well. Its about the first 24-72 hours of a fawns life that it is most vulnerable. 1- the fawn needs colostrum from the mother or else its chances of survival go way down. 2- it depends alot on the age of the doe because a younger doe versus an older doe will have less of a chance keeping her baby alive where an older doe with more years of successful birthing and experience keeping her baby alive. Ex. Young doe births first fawn and only pushes the fawn a small distance(150yrds or so), yote comes along and smells the birth area(scent is very strong there) tracks the baby who has more than likely been poorly hidden by the young mother easy pickens. Where an older doe(3 1/2-6 1/2) has learned from here past failures and pushes her baby 400yrds into a pine thicket or a cutover with 3 years of prior sucession(excellent fawn cover) yote comes along expends a great deal of energy tracking the more dispersed scent trail and decides to chase rabbits. Now that bein said r they causin more problems than they use to... Yep sure r, in the past few year theyre has been a learning curve noticed in coyote behavior(ft ruckers research) showing that tho theyre gonna get some no matter what you do, they have learned to pin point does about to birth wheather it be sarcadian rythem or maybe a certain scent that the foes give off around birthing time but the coyotes are pulling the fawns straigt out of the birth canal before the doe can even drop them. really and trully, correct habitat makes all the difference whether it be deer or quail. That bein said deer r a much hartier and adaptable creature compared to a quail. Yotes r here to stay like it or not,buy deer will adapt and survive its instinctive. Also hogs do catch and eat fawns as well as turkey eggs and quail eggs. Maybe yotes r doin the most damage but it aint just yotes.