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State of Alabama funding crisis #1328071
04/15/15 10:18 AM
04/15/15 10:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,088
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,088
Chelsea, AL
We've been hearing for months now about the gloom and doom of lack of $. In my mind there are two main issues at hand.

1. We still have areas of overlap and wasteful spending that can be made more efficient and streamlined better. Lots has been done already, but there is room for more.

2. Our revenue dollar allocation process is totally messed up...it is the messed up type of system Alabama has that is causing so much trouble.

Right now, nearly 90% (I think this is accurate) of each and every revenue dollar coming into the state already has a home by AL law---it is EARMARKED to go to certain agencies or programs. The Alabama Congress has very little flexibility to move money around to fund what needs to be funded. We are left with deep deficits or holes in the General Fund Budget that way.

What needs to happen is to rewrite and redo our Alabama Constitution. They way money is appropriated is not working well. Our constitutional amendment process for every little thing is burdensome. The way things are set up removes local control over local issues. Why should the rest of the state have to vote on something Mobile County may want to do? Or any county for that matter. Revamping our antiquated constitution must be done right though...retain our rights and conservative values...don't give it away through bad language.

If we can overhaul our system, we can be more flexible with $ allocation to meet needs. We must still be as efficient as possible so not to have to go to the tax well so often. But our broken system is bleeding us dry the way it is now.

My 2 cents.

Last edited by straycat; 04/15/15 10:18 AM.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: straycat] #1328082
04/15/15 10:30 AM
04/15/15 10:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 471
Baldwin, Alabama
jmack66 Offline
4 point
jmack66  Offline
4 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 471
Baldwin, Alabama
thumbup


Live everyday like its your last
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: straycat] #1328203
04/15/15 01:17 PM
04/15/15 01:17 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,911
Cullman
C
CKyleC Offline
(Can't Keep It Up...)
CKyleC  Offline
(Can't Keep It Up...)
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,911
Cullman
There isn't a lack of money. There is an over-abundance of spending.

That being said, I would be ok with re-doing our Constitution IF it was in a manner that guaranteed the same individual rights and protections as today. That won't happen.


"In Alabama, we prefer to kill small bucks on big properties"-Turkey247
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: straycat] #1328213
04/15/15 01:29 PM
04/15/15 01:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
If you only knew.....
Tru-Talker Offline
Booner
Tru-Talker  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
If you only knew.....
There ain't no funding crisis....it's a spending crisis....


Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves...

Confucius
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: straycat] #1328214
04/15/15 01:29 PM
04/15/15 01:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,781
USA
R
Remington270 Offline
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Offline
Freak of Nature
R
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,781
USA
I agree in principle, but there's no way I'd agree to a constitution rewrite. Our property taxes would go through the roof and more harm than good would be done. Be careful what you ask for IMO.

Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: Tru-Talker] #1328229
04/15/15 01:39 PM
04/15/15 01:39 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 12,481
Pike County, AL
Fuzzy_Bunny Offline
Booner
Fuzzy_Bunny  Offline
Booner
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 12,481
Pike County, AL
Originally Posted By: Tru-Talker
There ain't no funding crisis....it's a spending crisis....


X a billion

Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: straycat] #1328230
04/15/15 01:39 PM
04/15/15 01:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651
Longwood, FL
J
jlbuc10 Offline
Booner
jlbuc10  Offline
Booner
J
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651
Longwood, FL
Most local tax dollars stay local. And it is your local government, city councils, and county commissions that are voting and deciding where your dollars are being placed. I'm in muni bonds I do this every day.

Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: straycat] #1328252
04/15/15 02:20 PM
04/15/15 02:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,237
Dauphin Island, Alabama
Simpleman Offline
8 point
Simpleman  Offline
8 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,237
Dauphin Island, Alabama
I say leave the Constitution alone. It has issues but not near as many as a revamped 2015 Constituition would.
I have heard this burdensome or cumbersome issue raised about our current Constitution for years now. How about we put an amendment to the constitution on the ballot that removes control at the state level and allows local (county and city) issues to be voted on and settled at that level? One properly written amendment could solve this issue. They don't want it fixed because a) they wish to continue to maintain control in Montgomery (the reason for writing it this way in the beginning). and, b) they wish to continue to use this as leverage to push for a new constitution convention. Lord only knows what those yahoos would have a constitution written now looking like. I know I'm a bit parinoid about this but I think we all should be. It's dangerous business and thin ice rewriting the law of the land.

Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: jlbuc10] #1328291
04/15/15 03:06 PM
04/15/15 03:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,617
Bay Minette, AL
S
scrubbuck Offline
10 point
scrubbuck  Offline
10 point
S
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,617
Bay Minette, AL
Originally Posted By: jlbuc10
Most local tax dollars stay local. And it is your local government, city councils, and county commissions that are voting and deciding where your dollars are being placed. I'm in muni bonds I do this every day.


Most do not stay local. Most are sent to Montgomery and are then redistributed throughout the 67 counties. A handful of revenue generating counties such as Baldwin, Madison and about 4 others get screwed, while most smaller counties benefit. Most counties in this state do not generate enough revenue to operate on their own.

Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: scrubbuck] #1328451
04/15/15 04:56 PM
04/15/15 04:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651
Longwood, FL
J
jlbuc10 Offline
Booner
jlbuc10  Offline
Booner
J
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651
Longwood, FL

Originally Posted By: scrubbuck
Originally Posted By: jlbuc10
Most local tax dollars stay local. And it is your local government, city councils, and county commissions that are voting and deciding where your dollars are being placed. I'm in muni bonds I do this every day.


Most do not stay local. Most are sent to Montgomery and are then redistributed throughout the 67 counties. A handful of revenue generating counties such as Baldwin, Madison and about 4 others get screwed, while most smaller counties benefit. Most counties in this state do not generate enough revenue to operate on their own.

That's why they borrow, and those debts are paid in tax dollars.

Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: Tru-Talker] #1328535
04/16/15 12:55 AM
04/16/15 12:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,838
Parts Unknown
Cletus Offline
10 point
Cletus  Offline
10 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,838
Parts Unknown
Originally Posted By: Tru-Talker
There ain't no funding crisis....it's a spending crisis....



Yep

Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: Cletus] #1328562
04/16/15 01:47 AM
04/16/15 01:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743
Lower AL
K
k bush Offline
12 point
k bush  Offline
12 point
K
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743
Lower AL
First, I work for state government. Please understand that things are cut about as far as they can go. Every agency is being told to plan for another 10-15% cut with those funds being transferred to Corrections and Medicaid.

The only way to accomplish this is to cut services. I.E. close state parks, longer wait for licenses and permits, less inspections, etc.


"Cull" is just another four letter word...
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: k bush] #1328576
04/16/15 02:15 AM
04/16/15 02:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
If you only knew.....
Tru-Talker Offline
Booner
Tru-Talker  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
If you only knew.....
Originally Posted By: k bush
Please understand that things are cut about as far as they can go.

The only way to accomplish this is to cut services. I.E. close state parks, longer wait for licenses and permits, less inspections, etc.


How bout do away with stuff like this....

Waste...

More waste...

I could go on and on....but I have work to do....


Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves...

Confucius
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: Tru-Talker] #1328588
04/16/15 02:22 AM
04/16/15 02:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,752
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
GUVNER
Skinny  Offline
GUVNER
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,752
Luverne, AL
Originally Posted By: Tru-Talker
Originally Posted By: k bush
Please understand that things are cut about as far as they can go.

The only way to accomplish this is to cut services. I.E. close state parks, longer wait for licenses and permits, less inspections, etc.


How bout do away with stuff like this....

Waste...

More waste...

I could go on and on....but I have work to do....


That's Federal Waste, a totally different ball of wax.


Never Trust Government

"You can be broke but you cant be poor." Ruthie-May Webster
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: Skinny] #1328592
04/16/15 02:24 AM
04/16/15 02:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
If you only knew.....
Tru-Talker Offline
Booner
Tru-Talker  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
If you only knew.....
Originally Posted By: Skinny
Originally Posted By: Tru-Talker
Originally Posted By: k bush
Please understand that things are cut about as far as they can go.

The only way to accomplish this is to cut services. I.E. close state parks, longer wait for licenses and permits, less inspections, etc.


How bout do away with stuff like this....

Waste...

More waste...

I could go on and on....but I have work to do....


That's Federal Waste, a totally different ball of wax.


I understand that...but if you think they ain't wasting state tax dollars to....you are as naive as the other voters....


Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves...

Confucius
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: straycat] #1328716
04/16/15 04:18 AM
04/16/15 04:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651
Longwood, FL
J
jlbuc10 Offline
Booner
jlbuc10  Offline
Booner
J
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651
Longwood, FL
Y'all can pull up the audits for your counties. Look them up and see exactly where your money is going. Most of your ad valorem, sales, gas..... Taxes are going to pay off local debt.

Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: straycat] #1328791
04/16/15 05:13 AM
04/16/15 05:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 645
Lowndes County
A
augustus_65 Offline
4 point
augustus_65  Offline
4 point
A
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 645
Lowndes County
The legislature began rewriting the constitution article by article four years ago, but only the non-controversial articles have been addressed so far. The legislature chose to pursue this course of constitutional revision rather than a constitutional convention that has been the method by which the five Alabama constitutions have been written.

As straycat pointed out, earmarking is the primary problem with Alabama's budgeting process. All of the growth revenue streams are earmarked for the Education Trust Fund (ETF) while most of the stagnant revenue streams go into the General Fund. There is a projected 240 million dollar surplus in the ETF for 2016 but no one wants to talk about unearmarking those funds and giving the legislature the flexibility to transfer money to the GF which has a projected 250 million dollar shortfall. Whether you agree with the Governor's proposal or not, at least he has a plan. Senator Orr who chairs the GF committee has done nothing but talk about more cuts. It's easy to talk about cutting spending, but there is no fat left to cut in the General Fund. I have been working on Court Funding issues this session and I can tell you the Court System can't sustain any more cuts. We have lost 350 employees statewide over the past 10 years, but we are dealing with higher case loads and still contributing money to the GF. In fact 56% of the total money collected by our Circuit Clerk was paid to non-court related entities through the General Fund and specific disbursements to other state agencies. 34% was paid to third parties such as civil judgments and child support collections. Only 10% stayed in the Court System.

So where do you make cuts in the GF? Do you cut an already underfunded and overcrowded prison system. Do you cut Medicaid? Do you cut the Department of Public Safety or ALEA which already doesn't have nearly enough state troopers to adequately protect and serve the people of Alabama? Its easy to say cut spending and ten years ago I would have agreed with you, but there just isn't much left to cut.

Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: straycat] #1328826
04/16/15 05:33 AM
04/16/15 05:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,088
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,088
Chelsea, AL
Right now the spending allocation is set up through our Constitution provisions or by statute....dictating allocation to the General Fund Budget and the to separate Education Budget. Within the General Fund Budget are mandatory set allocation percentages (earmarks)to various agencies and departments or programs. By law, these earmarks must be funded. What is left is very little flexible discretionary allocation amounts to fill holes or shortfalls in various places from year to year.

This got set up by our legislators over the decades or by referendum voting on certain taxes to be used only for certain purposes. Over the years the mandatory earmarked allocations grew and grew. Today 91% of all dollars coming in via taxes are earmarked in Alabama. The national average is 24%. Anyone see a problem here?

THIS IS A REALLY POOR WAY TO DO THINGS! It is time to undo the earmarks. In my opinion at least. Funny timing perhaps, but I wrote my opinions out yesterday and today Yellowhammer has an article by Rep. Will Ainsworth on the same topic. Some of the info above is from that article. Spells it out nicely as something to consider revamping.

Yellowhammer Politics-Earmarks


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: Tru-Talker] #1329014
04/16/15 07:55 AM
04/16/15 07:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743
Lower AL
K
k bush Offline
12 point
k bush  Offline
12 point
K
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743
Lower AL
Where would you make your cuts? What state programs and services would you eliminate?


"Cull" is just another four letter word...
Re: State of Alabama funding crisis [Re: k bush] #1329046
04/16/15 08:22 AM
04/16/15 08:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
The problem with rewriting the Alabama Constitution is that upteen thousand liberal groups will battle to remove all restrictions on the power of the State govt., will want all references to God and the fact that rights come from God removed, they will want the gun rights, natural rights etc parts removed, they will want sodomite/lesbian/pedophile/transgender/polygamist rights put in, radical environmentalist will fight for God knows what, and have to say that most conservatives are also incompetent to write a true constitution. What will happen is we sell our birth right for a mess of pottage.

I'd rather have another amendment to solve any earmark issues.

And another amendment that says there does not need to be amendments any more for local issues - just a local vote.


"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

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