My forest2market bookmark won't work anymore. They use to give out a free price report, but prob have to pay now. What is hardwood and pine pulpwood going for now with this wet weather?

Timber prices are always local in nature and there are a lot of factors, distance to mill, weather, road access and internal roads, type of timber and species, mills available, volume of timber available and many more.

In north Alabama hardwood pulp is on quota and prices are starting to fall. Pine has been hard to sell. Hardwood sawlogs and veneer logs are still strong

2Walnuts do I know you? I sent you a pm a few days ago but you never read it

Mills around here are full. We just sold some poles, chip and saw and some pulp. Had a little hardwood also.
I'll pull my contract tomorrow and shoot you a PM. I can't remember off the top of my head. Seems like chip and saw was 24/ton.

If I didn't have to sell I wouldnt.

This is a thinning, it's time. I have chip n saw prices, I just need pulp prices. It's wet around here and mills are not full yet.

There is something to say about the silvicultural decision in thinning. I agree that thinning is a necessary step if you plan to grow solid wood products time efficiently. There is also something to say about optimizing your marketing of your thinning. After all, over half of your investment will be harvested at that time. How old is the plantation and what was your starting TPA? You may have more time than you think.

Honestly, I don't know if I have seen a worse time to sell in my career.

You need to get the chip n saw price and the pulp price from the same company. Remember that just because a company has a high price you may not get as good of a job as another company with a slightly less price, I had rather have a good stand after the thinning is over.

Actually in this particular case we could wait a little while, but I don't see prices coming up anytime soon. This is a very light 2nd thinning, but were trying to get this stand to where we can wait on a good price increase and then clear. Hopefully 5-7 years down the road it'll pick up. I marked it feb 2014 but the paint should be good for 2-3 years. We just want to get it lightly thinned so it can grow until whenever prices rebound. It's 25 yrs old, 200 trees per acre, most of the trees we're taking out will be small CNS with a little pulp here and there. We have wavered on whether to just forget the thinning and just wait till prices increase and clear, but the Right thing to do is thin, then wait IMO. I know this market is depressed and depressing. Right now in my area small CNS is around 14.00 a ton and large CNS is around 17.00 depending on location.
I agree, I certainly want a good job done. We're familiar with local loggers.

Hate to hijack a thread but ya'll have struck a raw nerve with me. "Distance to the mill" is BS!!! Why should a land owner get more for his timber because he is further from the mill?? I can understand the logger making more because of fuel and turn around time but the land owner should be the same. If anything, the closer to the mill should get more because of the affects of the mill (according to some). Most we can usually get out of an AC unit is 3 years. Heating and cooling companies have stopped giving warranties in my area and say its because of the mill. There have been lawsuits over this and they have paid for some new units. Besides that, the same timber 10 miles from the mill should be paid the same as 50 miles from the mill. If ya'll can't tell I live close to TWO mills.

The landowners closer to the mill should get paid more than those further away. Mills sometimes pay buyers more to bring wood from further distances to their mill but the landowner usually still gets less because of the fuel cost and time, etc for the longer travel.
Maybe the difference you are seeing is just what the buyer is willing to pay and does not reflect the delivered mill prices.

I agree that is the way it should work but it doesn't. Not only that but dealers get different prices at the mill causing some to have harder times competing. There is a lot of buddy-buddy stuff that hurts some landowners. I'm not asking to be paid more for my closeness to the mill, just the same. I have also seen some mill tickets where the logger says they are cutting 3 counties away from where they are actually cutting so the landowner could get a better price. I talk to people in the timer business everyday and its a back stabbing ugly situation out there. We were really screwed when IP bought Union Camp and Hammermill.

OK, made a phone call. Yes, the landowner makes more $ for the same timber the further away. He went into zones and different things. Basically, he told me if the land is 1 -49 miles the landowner gets paid "X" for stumpage. 50 miles and over gets "XX" for stumpage. Logger gets more for freight.

The landowner does not 'make' more stumpage for selling timber further away from the mill. Zone pricing was created to attract wood from longer distances to the mill. In a perfect world, it would act in a way that the landowner receives comparable stumpage pricing than those landowners closer to the mill. It is not perfect and creates situations (some you have already mentioned) where some can take advantage of it.

Personally, I believe zone pricing should be ended. Some mills are already putting a stop to it.

Absolutely, do away with the zones!!

Landowners farther away don't get paid more just for the fact that the timber is farther away, competition becomes a factor. Being stuck between two IP mills doesn't help you out but the reason of this thread is your biggest enemy. F2M is the villain that helped create these crazy pricing schemes that have popped up in the past 15 years.

The landowner "makes" whatever price he negotiates for, whether your close or far away. I'm close, I know it, so I ask for more money. The logger can get more loads out which reduces his cost and some of that needs to come my way. It's a negotiation just like buying a car.

Explain how F2M is a villian. They've been really spot on in our area. Where would a landowner get an idea of the market if he only sells once every three years? I've called mills before and most of them will not give out a price unless you already have a contract with them. My dad gets a green sheet but its only quarterly. It lined up perfectly with F2M in the past. Where's a good informative pricing guide for landowners?????? I need to know.

You happen to know where F2M gets their pricing info???? I'll give you one guess.

Why would they quit giving the info out then? They charge for it now.

I didn't know they ever gave current information out for free, even though their "current" information is always a quarter behind. F2M was developed and sold to large companies to benchmark prices against each other. In the past few years alot of the big companies have backed away from it so if they are charging for something now that once was free I imagine its because they are trying to milk a few more bucks from it before all the big companies dump it and it dies.

Forest2market has no meaningful purpose at a local level. It will give you some good information on trends in the large scale and national level.

BINGO!!!!

F2M and Timber Mart South get their prices from consultants, county foresters and Extension Service offices. The county forester and Ex Ser call around to anybody in the area they can get to answer the phone and give them numbers. They are not of much value if you are selling timber tho, they are at least 3 months behind in the numbers and they are not tract specific like you would have on a tract for sale..

F2M had a free SE average price chart that was usually two weeks behind, but timber mart south is a quarter behind. It was great for a landowner.

The way a mill sees it is why pay more for wood close to the mill they are gone to get it anyway. if you pay more every logger landowner close will want more . If a mill needs to add inventory thy will pay logger or landowner 70-100 miles away more, so word doesn't get out. If it does thy say it's because of distance

The point is 99% of F2M's info came from the mills that bought the wood. You think that is legit info? I've work for two mills that used it and I've seen some crazy tricks to manipulate that number. Plus a quarter behind is useless even if it was a relevant number.

We always take bids. Highest bid gets it. My dad sent out letters today on a tract he wants cut. Its only about 200 acres but it will be easy cutting. I told him price was way down but he said if he doesn't get what he wants he will wait.

So does anyone have an answer to the op's question? I'd like to know, also.

The only thing TMS or F2M gives landowners in my area is an unrealistic expectation. CD.

Zone pricing was developed because paper mills can't keep the mill full relying on wood in just a 50 or so mile radius. To get wood from outside a typical procurement area you have to pay a higher delivered price. Generally the landowner will get a similar stumpage from any zone because the extra money in the delivered price goes to the logging/trucking cost. The problem with zones is it encourages zone jumping. Most mills in our area don't have zones so its not a big deal. They usually buy based on the wood specs (especially sawmills). Im pretty sure F2M has changed hands, which is why they went to a pay model. Gotta make money somehow I suppose. Mills were the ones who mainly used their data anyways. F2M stumpage and TimberMart South stumpage numbers were always very inflated for North Alabama.