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Timber prices #1309097
03/25/15 01:58 PM
03/25/15 01:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,314
Kennedy, al
G
globe Offline OP
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Kennedy, al
My forest2market bookmark won't work anymore. They use to give out a free price report, but prob have to pay now. What is hardwood and pine pulpwood going for now with this wet weather?


Everything woke turns to shucks
Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309158
03/25/15 02:50 PM
03/25/15 02:50 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20,017
PDL, Fl
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timbercruiser Offline
Freak of Nature
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PDL, Fl
Timber prices are always local in nature and there are a lot of factors, distance to mill, weather, road access and internal roads, type of timber and species, mills available, volume of timber available and many more.

Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309190
03/25/15 03:22 PM
03/25/15 03:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 218
Ne alabama
2
2walnuts Offline
4 point
2walnuts  Offline
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Ne alabama
In north Alabama hardwood pulp is on quota and prices are starting to fall. Pine has been hard to sell. Hardwood sawlogs and veneer logs are still strong

Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309233
03/25/15 03:53 PM
03/25/15 03:53 PM
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Jackson County
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BrentM Offline
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2Walnuts do I know you? I sent you a pm a few days ago but you never read it

Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309257
03/25/15 04:03 PM
03/25/15 04:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,268
Alabama
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jmj120 Offline
10 point
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Alabama
Mills around here are full. We just sold some poles, chip and saw and some pulp. Had a little hardwood also.
I'll pull my contract tomorrow and shoot you a PM. I can't remember off the top of my head. Seems like chip and saw was 24/ton.

Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309284
03/25/15 04:20 PM
03/25/15 04:20 PM
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Posts: 25,687
South Alabama
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Rebelman Offline
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If I didn't have to sell I wouldnt.

Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309520
03/26/15 02:42 AM
03/26/15 02:42 AM
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Posts: 11,314
Kennedy, al
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globe Offline OP
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This is a thinning, it's time. I have chip n saw prices, I just need pulp prices. It's wet around here and mills are not full yet.


Everything woke turns to shucks
Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309528
03/26/15 02:50 AM
03/26/15 02:50 AM
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South Alabama
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Rebelman Offline
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There is something to say about the silvicultural decision in thinning. I agree that thinning is a necessary step if you plan to grow solid wood products time efficiently. There is also something to say about optimizing your marketing of your thinning. After all, over half of your investment will be harvested at that time. How old is the plantation and what was your starting TPA? You may have more time than you think.

Honestly, I don't know if I have seen a worse time to sell in my career.

Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309563
03/26/15 03:27 AM
03/26/15 03:27 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20,017
PDL, Fl
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timbercruiser Offline
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You need to get the chip n saw price and the pulp price from the same company. Remember that just because a company has a high price you may not get as good of a job as another company with a slightly less price, I had rather have a good stand after the thinning is over.

Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309600
03/26/15 04:01 AM
03/26/15 04:01 AM
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Kennedy, al
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globe Offline OP
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Actually in this particular case we could wait a little while, but I don't see prices coming up anytime soon. This is a very light 2nd thinning, but were trying to get this stand to where we can wait on a good price increase and then clear. Hopefully 5-7 years down the road it'll pick up. I marked it feb 2014 but the paint should be good for 2-3 years. We just want to get it lightly thinned so it can grow until whenever prices rebound. It's 25 yrs old, 200 trees per acre, most of the trees we're taking out will be small CNS with a little pulp here and there. We have wavered on whether to just forget the thinning and just wait till prices increase and clear, but the Right thing to do is thin, then wait IMO. I know this market is depressed and depressing. Right now in my area small CNS is around 14.00 a ton and large CNS is around 17.00 depending on location.
I agree, I certainly want a good job done. We're familiar with local loggers.

Last edited by globe; 03/26/15 04:02 AM.

Everything woke turns to shucks
Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1309789
03/26/15 07:19 AM
03/26/15 07:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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centralala Offline
14 point
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central ala,
Hate to hijack a thread but ya'll have struck a raw nerve with me. "Distance to the mill" is BS!!! Why should a land owner get more for his timber because he is further from the mill?? I can understand the logger making more because of fuel and turn around time but the land owner should be the same. If anything, the closer to the mill should get more because of the affects of the mill (according to some). Most we can usually get out of an AC unit is 3 years. Heating and cooling companies have stopped giving warranties in my area and say its because of the mill. There have been lawsuits over this and they have paid for some new units. Besides that, the same timber 10 miles from the mill should be paid the same as 50 miles from the mill. If ya'll can't tell I live close to TWO mills. slap

Last edited by centralala; 03/26/15 07:20 AM.
Re: Timber prices [Re: centralala] #1309802
03/26/15 07:29 AM
03/26/15 07:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,708
Opelika ,AL
bwhunter Offline
8 point
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Opelika ,AL
Originally Posted By: centralala
Hate to hijack a thread but ya'll have struck a raw nerve with me. "Distance to the mill" is BS!!! Why should a land owner get more for his timber because he is further from the mill?? I can understand the logger making more because of fuel and turn around time but the land owner should be the same. If anything, the closer to the mill should get more because of the affects of the mill (according to some). Most we can usually get out of an AC unit is 3 years. Heating and cooling companies have stopped giving warranties in my area and say its because of the mill. There have been lawsuits over this and they have paid for some new units. Besides that, the same timber 10 miles from the mill should be paid the same as 50 miles from the mill. If ya'll can't tell I live close to TWO mills. slap


The landowners closer to the mill should get paid more than those further away. Mills sometimes pay buyers more to bring wood from further distances to their mill but the landowner usually still gets less because of the fuel cost and time, etc for the longer travel.
Maybe the difference you are seeing is just what the buyer is willing to pay and does not reflect the delivered mill prices.

Re: Timber prices [Re: bwhunter] #1309812
03/26/15 07:41 AM
03/26/15 07:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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centralala Offline
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centralala  Offline
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central ala,
Originally Posted By: bwhunter
Originally Posted By: centralala
Hate to hijack a thread but ya'll have struck a raw nerve with me. "Distance to the mill" is BS!!! Why should a land owner get more for his timber because he is further from the mill?? I can understand the logger making more because of fuel and turn around time but the land owner should be the same. If anything, the closer to the mill should get more because of the affects of the mill (according to some). Most we can usually get out of an AC unit is 3 years. Heating and cooling companies have stopped giving warranties in my area and say its because of the mill. There have been lawsuits over this and they have paid for some new units. Besides that, the same timber 10 miles from the mill should be paid the same as 50 miles from the mill. If ya'll can't tell I live close to TWO mills. slap


The landowners closer to the mill should get paid more than those further away. Mills sometimes pay buyers more to bring wood from further distances to their mill but the landowner usually still gets less because of the fuel cost and time, etc for the longer travel.
Maybe the difference you are seeing is just what the buyer is willing to pay and does not reflect the delivered mill prices.


I agree that is the way it should work but it doesn't. Not only that but dealers get different prices at the mill causing some to have harder times competing. There is a lot of buddy-buddy stuff that hurts some landowners. I'm not asking to be paid more for my closeness to the mill, just the same. I have also seen some mill tickets where the logger says they are cutting 3 counties away from where they are actually cutting so the landowner could get a better price. I talk to people in the timer business everyday and its a back stabbing ugly situation out there. We were really screwed when IP bought Union Camp and Hammermill.

Re: Timber prices [Re: centralala] #1309835
03/26/15 08:04 AM
03/26/15 08:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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centralala Offline
14 point
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central ala,
OK, made a phone call. Yes, the landowner makes more $ for the same timber the further away. He went into zones and different things. Basically, he told me if the land is 1 -49 miles the landowner gets paid "X" for stumpage. 50 miles and over gets "XX" for stumpage. Logger gets more for freight.

Re: Timber prices [Re: centralala] #1309900
03/26/15 08:56 AM
03/26/15 08:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,687
South Alabama
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Rebelman Offline
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Originally Posted By: centralala
OK, made a phone call. Yes, the landowner makes more $ for the same timber the further away. .


The landowner does not 'make' more stumpage for selling timber further away from the mill. Zone pricing was created to attract wood from longer distances to the mill. In a perfect world, it would act in a way that the landowner receives comparable stumpage pricing than those landowners closer to the mill. It is not perfect and creates situations (some you have already mentioned) where some can take advantage of it.

Personally, I believe zone pricing should be ended. Some mills are already putting a stop to it.

Re: Timber prices [Re: Rebelman] #1309916
03/26/15 09:11 AM
03/26/15 09:11 AM
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Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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centralala Offline
14 point
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central ala,
Absolutely, do away with the zones!!

Re: Timber prices [Re: centralala] #1310035
03/26/15 11:00 AM
03/26/15 11:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,487
Louisiana
JAT50 Offline
8 point
JAT50  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,487
Louisiana
Originally Posted By: centralala
Hate to hijack a thread but ya'll have struck a raw nerve with me. "Distance to the mill" is BS!!! Why should a land owner get more for his timber because he is further from the mill?? I can understand the logger making more because of fuel and turn around time but the land owner should be the same. If anything, the closer to the mill should get more because of the affects of the mill (according to some). Most we can usually get out of an AC unit is 3 years. Heating and cooling companies have stopped giving warranties in my area and say its because of the mill. There have been lawsuits over this and they have paid for some new units. Besides that, the same timber 10 miles from the mill should be paid the same as 50 miles from the mill. If ya'll can't tell I live close to TWO mills. slap



Landowners farther away don't get paid more just for the fact that the timber is farther away, competition becomes a factor. Being stuck between two IP mills doesn't help you out but the reason of this thread is your biggest enemy. F2M is the villain that helped create these crazy pricing schemes that have popped up in the past 15 years.

Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1310038
03/26/15 11:01 AM
03/26/15 11:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,314
Kennedy, al
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globe Offline OP
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Kennedy, al
The landowner "makes" whatever price he negotiates for, whether your close or far away. I'm close, I know it, so I ask for more money. The logger can get more loads out which reduces his cost and some of that needs to come my way. It's a negotiation just like buying a car.


Everything woke turns to shucks
Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1310041
03/26/15 11:07 AM
03/26/15 11:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,314
Kennedy, al
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globe Offline OP
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Explain how F2M is a villian. They've been really spot on in our area. Where would a landowner get an idea of the market if he only sells once every three years? I've called mills before and most of them will not give out a price unless you already have a contract with them. My dad gets a green sheet but its only quarterly. It lined up perfectly with F2M in the past. Where's a good informative pricing guide for landowners?????? I need to know.


Everything woke turns to shucks
Re: Timber prices [Re: globe] #1310044
03/26/15 11:11 AM
03/26/15 11:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,487
Louisiana
JAT50 Offline
8 point
JAT50  Offline
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Posts: 1,487
Louisiana
Originally Posted By: globe
Explain how F2M is a villian. They've been really spot on in our area. Where would a landowner get an idea of the market if he only sells once every three years? I've called mills before and most of them will not give out a price unless you already have a contract with them. My dad gets a green sheet but its only quarterly. It lined up perfectly with F2M in the past. Where's a good informative pricing guide for landowners?????? I need to know.


You happen to know where F2M gets their pricing info???? I'll give you one guess.

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