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Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: RiverWood] #1292518
03/10/15 02:35 PM
03/10/15 02:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
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Remington270 Offline
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
Originally Posted By: RiverWood
I treat my food plots just like I do the ag fields. Soil test, adjust ph, plant, fertilize, & control weeds.


I pretty much do too. But not everyone has access to all the fancy tools ($$$). I frequently read on here guys with 40 or 60 acres of woods and a 1 acre plot. Doesn't really make sense for them to have a big-time tractor and invest thousands if this is their only spot.
You can accomplish some of the things CNC talks about with a sprayer and a riding mower or less.
I don't do it, but its cool to see his results.

Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: Remington270] #1292536
03/10/15 02:46 PM
03/10/15 02:46 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,147
Satsuma, AL
R
Robert D. Offline
12 point
Robert D.  Offline
12 point
R
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,147
Satsuma, AL
Originally Posted By: Remington270
Originally Posted By: RiverWood
I treat my food plots just like I do the ag fields. Soil test, adjust ph, plant, fertilize, & control weeds.


I pretty much do too. But not everyone has access to all the fancy tools ($$$). I frequently read on here guys with 40 or 60 acres of woods and a 1 acre plot. Doesn't really make sense for them to have a big-time tractor and invest thousands if this is their only spot.
You can accomplish some of the things CNC talks about with a sprayer and a riding mower or less.
I don't do it, but its cool to see his results.


It's VERY cool to see his results, which can be duplicated GIVEN THE RIGHT CONDITIONS, and time and patience.

What's NOT COOL sometimes is the attitude of people like him who (like reformed drunks or people who've kicked a drug habit) to foam at the mouth about how their method is THE ONLY TRUE WAY and everybody else is a dumbass, etc etc etc.

I haven't read enough of CNC's posts to know if he's too evangelical with his beliefs, but 257 is a relatively levelheaded guy who makes a living dealing in the things he's speaking of, it's not a HOBBY, or a PASTTIME, or a sometimes activity for him. IT'S HIS LIFE, basically. When he speaks of things in that vein, his opinions are based in fact, and on long hard bought experience. I think when he gets flippant, holier than thou responses from CNC (I'm guessing here, I'm not 257's psychiatrist) he doesn't respond well to them.

I understand that too. Keyboard Cowboys are only slightly more common than Keyboard Evangelists, and they are both aggravating in their own way.

Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1292562
03/10/15 03:06 PM
03/10/15 03:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
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Remington270 Offline
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Offline
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USA
Different people have different goals too. I'd be thrilled with 100 bpa of corn, while a true farmer usually wants a lot more than that because its his living. It's all about perspective, budget, and a variety of other factors.

Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: RiverWood] #1292656
03/10/15 03:55 PM
03/10/15 03:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: RiverWood
I treat my food plots just like I do the ag fields. Soil test, adjust ph, plant, fertilize, & control weeds.


Careful, that kinda talk got me in trouble with the dirt Police a while back.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: ] #1292666
03/10/15 04:01 PM
03/10/15 04:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: RobertD
Originally Posted By: Remington270
Originally Posted By: RiverWood
I treat my food plots just like I do the ag fields. Soil test, adjust ph, plant, fertilize, & control weeds.


I pretty much do too. But not everyone has access to all the fancy tools ($$$). I frequently read on here guys with 40 or 60 acres of woods and a 1 acre plot. Doesn't really make sense for them to have a big-time tractor and invest thousands if this is their only spot.
You can accomplish some of the things CNC talks about with a sprayer and a riding mower or less.
I don't do it, but its cool to see his results.


It's VERY cool to see his results, which can be duplicated GIVEN THE RIGHT CONDITIONS, and time and patience.

What's NOT COOL sometimes is the attitude of people like him who (like reformed drunks or people who've kicked a drug habit) to foam at the mouth about how their method is THE ONLY TRUE WAY and everybody else is a dumbass, etc etc etc.

I haven't read enough of CNC's posts to know if he's too evangelical with his beliefs, but 257 is a relatively levelheaded guy who makes a living dealing in the things he's speaking of, it's not a HOBBY, or a PASTTIME, or a sometimes activity for him. IT'S HIS LIFE, basically. When he speaks of things in that vein, his opinions are based in fact, and on long hard bought experience. I think when he gets flippant, holier than thou responses from CNC (I'm guessing here, I'm not 257's psychiatrist) he doesn't respond well to them.

I understand that too. Keyboard Cowboys are only slightly more common than Keyboard Evangelists, and they are both aggravating in their own way.


thumbup RobertD. I think you've made a fair assessment.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: 257wbymag] #1292689
03/10/15 04:15 PM
03/10/15 04:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,703
Winfield
R
rst87 Offline
8 point
rst87  Offline
8 point
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,703
Winfield
Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
I just don't believe in halfassing things. Whether no till or conventional but I know "throw and mow" is halfassing
come on now. You mean Yall are not going to fly on your cotton seed over the top of a cover crop. Then mow the cover crop down????


"Life is hard; It's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne
Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1292693
03/10/15 04:17 PM
03/10/15 04:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
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Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
Well you know I did think about flying on some soybeans for super high 80bpa yields but I realized I disked up all my thatch! But we have to rename it fly and mow.

Last edited by 257wbymag; 03/10/15 04:18 PM.

Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: 257wbymag] #1292721
03/10/15 04:27 PM
03/10/15 04:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,703
Winfield
R
rst87 Offline
8 point
rst87  Offline
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Posts: 1,703
Winfield
Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
Well you know I did think about flying on some soybeans for super high 80bpa yields but I realized I disked up all my thatch! But we have to rename it fly and mow.
you probably could have made at least 85 bpa if you would have put out at least 100lb per ac of 8-8-8


"Life is hard; It's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne
Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1292938
03/11/15 02:55 AM
03/11/15 02:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
Actually, I believe they are flying on cover crops such as annual ryegrass, cereal rye, oats, clover, radishes etc……into standing cash crops such as corn or beans. The cash crop is then harvested and the silage is left behind. There's not a whole lot of difference in this and the throw and mow method other than just the altitude that the seed is broadcast from. I'm probably covering the seed more with thatch than what they do. The reason I mention the aerial application of cover crops is because its one of the methods that gave me the idea for "throw and mow". Thousands of acres of cover crops are planted this way every year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swYzaqNIz0E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH6I38um3Rs

Last edited by CNC; 03/11/15 02:56 AM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1292960
03/11/15 03:19 AM
03/11/15 03:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
CNC I know that man. It's what I do


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: RiverWood] #1292975
03/11/15 03:32 AM
03/11/15 03:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted By: RiverWood
Use of smother crops will not manage weeds. You are just plain wrong friend


Skipping back a little....This is using cereal rye, crimson clover, and hairy vetch as a smother crop in the spring.



The rye is allowed to mature….The canopy effect shades out the understory and keeps any weeds from being able to get started. This is the same concept you see happen in pine stands when the understory becomes shaded out.



Seed is then broadcast into the standing crop just like an aerial application in the previous videos and the crop is mowed down without disturbing the soil and seed bank.



The new crop begins to sprout………



……and eventually canopies back over the understory creating the same shade effect we talked about previously. This is one way that weeds are controlled using smother crops.



Last edited by CNC; 03/11/15 03:34 AM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: rst87] #1293325
03/11/15 08:17 AM
03/11/15 08:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,546
North Alabama
BamaPlowboy Offline
10 point
BamaPlowboy  Offline
10 point
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,546
North Alabama
Originally Posted By: rst87
Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
Well you know I did think about flying on some soybeans for super high 80bpa yields but I realized I disked up all my thatch! But we have to rename it fly and mow.
you probably could have made at least 85 bpa if you would have put out at least 100lb per ac of 8-8-8
.
100lbs of triple 8 is just that, 8lbs. I wish that's all it took!

Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1293340
03/11/15 08:34 AM
03/11/15 08:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,561
Tuscaloosa Co.
N
N2TRKYS Offline
Booner
N2TRKYS  Offline
Booner
N
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Posts: 14,561
Tuscaloosa Co.
What's your lbs/acre of cereal rye in that pic of your smother crop?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: N2TRKYS] #1293387
03/11/15 09:12 AM
03/11/15 09:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
What's your lbs/acre of cereal rye in that pic of your smother crop?


You can plant it at 75-100 lbs/ac. The previous pic was planted at 100 lbs/ac due to my high deer density and heavy browsing pressure during the winter months. That actually turned out to be a little too thick come spring though as the rye just about shaded everything out….including my clover. Looking back, I probably could have given it one mowing early in the spring and had a better balance of clover and rye. Someone with less browsing pressure may just want to back off to planting a lower rate of 75 lbs/ac in the beginning. Again, this was using zero herbicide.


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1293389
03/11/15 09:14 AM
03/11/15 09:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,561
Tuscaloosa Co.
N
N2TRKYS Offline
Booner
N2TRKYS  Offline
Booner
N
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Tuscaloosa Co.
Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
What's your lbs/acre of cereal rye in that pic of your smother crop?


You can plant it at 75-100 lbs/ac. The previous pic was planted at 100 lbs/ac due to my high deer density and heavy browsing pressure during the winter months. That actually turned out to be a little too thick come spring though as the rye just about shaded everything out….including my clover. Looking back, I probably could have given it one mowing early in the spring and had a better balance of clover and rye. Someone with less browsing pressure may just want to back off to planting a lower rate of 75 lbs/ac in the beginning. Again, this was using zero herbicide.



Do you get any volunteer rye?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: N2TRKYS] #1293612
03/11/15 12:57 PM
03/11/15 12:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Do you get any volunteer rye?


I was wondering that same thing myself…..so I took this little section of powerline that was planted in cereal rye and just let it go for the entire summer. I was curious to see how much of my own seed I could produce for the next season.



This is how much I ended up with. It started coming back in around the end of October. I imagine a lot of the seed was eaten over the summer. It’s by no means a full stand but that really wasn’t the point of this experiment. If you knew that you could get “X” amount of cereal rye to come back from seed like this each fall….then you might could cut your seeding rate back from say 75 lbs down to 50 lbs…..or from 100 lbs down to 75 lbs. Even if you just left it the same planting rate, then the extra seed would make your stand thicker.



Last edited by CNC; 03/11/15 12:57 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1293657
03/11/15 01:24 PM
03/11/15 01:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,561
Tuscaloosa Co.
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N2TRKYS Offline
Booner
N2TRKYS  Offline
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Tuscaloosa Co.
With our browsing pressure, I couldn't count on volunteer seeding. I'd have to reseed as if I was starting over.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1294268
03/12/15 01:35 AM
03/12/15 01:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
B
blumsden Offline
12 point
blumsden  Offline
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Lincoln, Alabama
Ok, i'll play. First of all i don't care how anyone plants their plots, but anybody that says you can't have a very thick,lush, and productive plot using the throw and mow method is an idiot. I used to plow, and had great results. If you like plowing, then have at it. The reasons some of you have weed issues, is because of the use of a plow. My weed issues have went waaaayyy down, because i'm never disturbing the weed seed bank by plowing. Most of you don't care anything about soil health and thats fine by me. I'm not fanatical about soil health. When i started using this method, it was all about shortcuts, and saving money. Soil health was icing on the cake. I've seen my soil darken. It has the ability to hold more rain water and i had some of the best looking plots that i've ever had, and the whole time, all the experts on here were telling me, that i planted too early and that i couldn't have a lush plot planting this way. Waist high IC cowpea's, so thick that you cant see the ground, is pretty damn good. And to the the expert that claims that you can't choke, or shade weeds, well you have no clue. Fast canopying plants are used all the time to shade out weeds, as long as you leave the plow in the shed. I don't want to get into this war, as i've said, i really don't care how anyone plants their plot. It just blows my mind that some people can't see that there are different ways of accomplishing the same thing. Some people make smart ass comments about things they know nothing about. All they know is, well we been doing it this way for years, so it's got to be right. Every farmer around me, uses a no-till drill. I wonder why that is, if plowing is so beneficial. CNC and i, along with many others have found a way to accomplish the same thing the farmers are doing without buying a seed drill. Whats wrong with that?

Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1294348
03/12/15 03:20 AM
03/12/15 03:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
…..aaaand blumsden comes out this morning with guns blazing. Just to show the complete yearly cycle with zero herbicide here’s the rest of the summer through fall planting.

Notice how the new crop has canopied over the understory and kept weeds at bay.



The deer actually ended up nearly decimating the plot over the coarse of the summer. Removing the canopy allowed crabgrass to eventually creep in once that happened.



Everything was allowed to mature without any mechanical disturbance until the first of Oct. At that point seed was broadcast again and the summer crop was mowed down over the seed using no herbicide.



…….and the new crop comes up. I’ll repeat this same process next spring with a few minor tweaks and the process will continue. Very simple…..very efficient….very effective method for managing food plots.



.....mid season



As of last week....







Last edited by CNC; 03/12/15 03:22 AM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: 257.....Here's to you man! [Re: CNC] #1294864
03/12/15 12:11 PM
03/12/15 12:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 937
Bremen
R
RiverWood Offline
6 point
RiverWood  Offline
6 point
R
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 937
Bremen
Blumsden you are correct. There are many ways to plant food plots. I agree that anyone who still uses a plow is wasting time & money. They are also not building soil health or increasing OM. However, I strongly disagree that you and CNC can throw seed on top of the ground, mow existing vegetation and grow a crop like a farmer. I've used cover crops for years, however they are only part of our overall weed management program. You can't get high yields without using herbicides. Seed to soil contact, seed planting depth, and seed placement are all critical to successful crops. Land managers with limited acreage available to plant should look for yield, not some fade that is an easier way to plant.

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