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Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: TwoRs] #1245676
01/29/15 01:31 PM
01/29/15 01:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,218
Auburn University
S
Steve Ditchkoff Offline
8 point
Steve Ditchkoff  Offline
8 point
S
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,218
Auburn University
Originally Posted By: TwoRs
How about studies that use an electronic feeder or feeders set to go off at mid day?


We don't have data on that, although there could be studies that have been done elsewhere.

But, I guess I would caution against assuming what they will do to deer movement. I've been wrong in my assumptions of deer movement more often than I care to admit, and know this because I've had the luxury of seeing deer movement data in detail. My guess would be that they do influence movement in some fashion, but I can't say to what extent, or in what manner.


***************
Steve Ditchkoff
School of Forestry and Wildlife Sciences
Auburn University
***************
Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: Steve Ditchkoff] #1245681
01/29/15 01:38 PM
01/29/15 01:38 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,910
Cullman
C
CKyleC Offline
(Can't Keep It Up...)
CKyleC  Offline
(Can't Keep It Up...)
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,910
Cullman
Originally Posted By: Steve Ditchkoff
Unfortunately, I saw this coming. We have data on radio-collared bucks in South Carolina, where baiting is legal. The very large property where we are doing the research used to spread corn out in 75-yard piles near some of their stands (LOTS of corn). What we saw with deer movement was that a lot of our bucks would begin moving just before dark while staying in thick cover. After sunset they would trek across the property to these areas with huge amounts of corn...feed...and then return before sunrise. Some of these bucks were making nightly movements of up to two miles one way. This year they quit doing that and hunting success went way up.

The fact is that the more food you supply the deer herd, the less hungry they are, and the less need they have to move during risky hours. So it's a difficult balance. You want to supply resources for your deer (whether it be habitat enhancement, food plots, or supplemental feed) to improve condition and gain all the benefits of that. But, the more you do so, the less likely you are to see them during daylight hours...because they aren't that hungry.

I don't think the feeders do anything to "hold deer on your property"...contrary to popular opinion. Rather, they just make them less hungry, and the deer don't move as much before dark, no matter whose property they choose to bed on. If your neighbor is feeding, there's nothing you can do about it. But, if you choose to feed to "level the playing field", you're just exacerbating the situation.


That is interesting. In your professional opinion does a food plot have the same effect as the corn piles that were studied?


"In Alabama, we prefer to kill small bucks on big properties"-Turkey247
Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1245685
01/29/15 01:41 PM
01/29/15 01:41 PM

M
Matt Brock
Unregistered
Matt Brock
Unregistered
M


I posted a link to another South Carolina study on here a few days ago. Hunter satisfaction and success was much higher on public land without feed than on managed private land with feed. I've been preaching this for years. Glad to see newer research is backing that data.

The costs of feeding and unintended consequences are not worth it.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: CKyleC] #1245688
01/29/15 01:43 PM
01/29/15 01:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,218
Auburn University
S
Steve Ditchkoff Offline
8 point
Steve Ditchkoff  Offline
8 point
S
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,218
Auburn University
In my opinion...yes. But, I don't have data to support it.

I believe that food plots can be great tools for hunting...in addition to providing supplemental nutrition. But, I believe that most hunters don't use the tool very wisely (at least many that i am familiar with). We tend to hunt them frequently (walking to and from and always leaving as trail of scent) and deer quickly realize that this general area is bad news. So...they become more nocturnal. My philosophy is to hunt food plots very infrequently (2-5 times a year) so that the deer don't look at these areas as having high human activity. Then, when I do hunt them, there will be lots of deer on them. Of course, I believe this is true for any hunting location. The difference with food plots is that we commonly have a big fancy hunting blind that we have put a lot of time and energy into...so we tend to hunt it more because of convenience and comfort.

Take a look at the QDMA article by Clint McCoy (this article ewas voted the number one article of 2014 by QDMA readers I believe), my graduate student that did the South Carolina research. He found that stands that were hunted had a significant decrease in deer usage of these areas during daylight hours for at least a few days.


***************
Steve Ditchkoff
School of Forestry and Wildlife Sciences
Auburn University
***************
Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: CKyleC] #1245689
01/29/15 01:44 PM
01/29/15 01:44 PM

M
Matt Brock
Unregistered
Matt Brock
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted By: CKyleC
Originally Posted By: Steve Ditchkoff
Unfortunately, I saw this coming. We have data on radio-collared bucks in South Carolina, where baiting is legal. The very large property where we are doing the research used to spread corn out in 75-yard piles near some of their stands (LOTS of corn). What we saw with deer movement was that a lot of our bucks would begin moving just before dark while staying in thick cover. After sunset they would trek across the property to these areas with huge amounts of corn...feed...and then return before sunrise. Some of these bucks were making nightly movements of up to two miles one way. This year they quit doing that and hunting success went way up.

The fact is that the more food you supply the deer herd, the less hungry they are, and the less need they have to move during risky hours. So it's a difficult balance. You want to supply resources for your deer (whether it be habitat enhancement, food plots, or supplemental feed) to improve condition and gain all the benefits of that. But, the more you do so, the less likely you are to see them during daylight hours...because they aren't that hungry.

I don't think the feeders do anything to "hold deer on your property"...contrary to popular opinion. Rather, they just make them less hungry, and the deer don't move as much before dark, no matter whose property they choose to bed on. If your neighbor is feeding, there's nothing you can do about it. But, if you choose to feed to "level the playing field", you're just exacerbating the situation.


That is interesting. In your professional opinion does a food plot have the same effect as the corn piles that were studied?


My opinion is no. Corn provides needed carbs and energy during peak stress periods making it highly desired and able to pack on weight and provide temporary energy. Food plots don't provide the same thing.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: Steve Ditchkoff] #1245697
01/29/15 01:53 PM
01/29/15 01:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,828
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,828
Elmore County
Originally Posted By: Steve Ditchkoff
Originally Posted By: TwoRs
How about studies that use an electronic feeder or feeders set to go off at mid day?


We don't have data on that, although there could be studies that have been done elsewhere.

But, I guess I would caution against assuming what they will do to deer movement. I've been wrong in my assumptions of deer movement more often than I care to admit, and know this because I've had the luxury of seeing deer movement data in detail. My guess would be that they do influence movement in some fashion, but I can't say to what extent, or in what manner.



would be nice to know what effect of pile verses timed feeders . you hear these stories about , the spreader goes off and the bucks come running . i always figured the deer didn't care they knew it would be there that night .

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1245728
01/29/15 02:25 PM
01/29/15 02:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 542
Spanish Fort, AL
G
getoutdoors Offline OP
4 point
getoutdoors  Offline OP
4 point
G
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 542
Spanish Fort, AL
Thanks Steve. This is exactly what I was looking for and why I love coming to this site.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1245738
01/29/15 02:38 PM
01/29/15 02:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,074
Glendale, FL
W
WhiteCityHunter Offline
6 point
WhiteCityHunter  Offline
6 point
W
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,074
Glendale, FL
Corn has been legal here in Florida forever. You're not gonna draw in bucks with corn, not in the daylight anyway. You'll draw does, yearlings and you might get a buck over it at first light or right at dark during the rut but that's about it. I don't use it at my lease, but I do in my backyard cuz I like seeing deer. However I'm in my house looking out. If I had to walk in to a stand b4 daylight I'm gonna run the deer off it b4 I can get in my stand. Also if you're putting corn in the woods you're stinking up the place extra on top of what you're already doing when you hunt. Corn is vastly overrated.
Out of all the deer sightings I've had at my house, and it's A LOT, maybe 10% of those included bucks.

Last edited by WhiteCityHunter; 01/29/15 02:40 PM.
Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: Frankie] #1245745
01/29/15 02:43 PM
01/29/15 02:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,074
Glendale, FL
W
WhiteCityHunter Offline
6 point
WhiteCityHunter  Offline
6 point
W
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,074
Glendale, FL
Originally Posted By: Frankie
Originally Posted By: Steve Ditchkoff
Originally Posted By: TwoRs
How about studies that use an electronic feeder or feeders set to go off at mid day?


We don't have data on that, although there could be studies that have been done elsewhere.

But, I guess I would caution against assuming what they will do to deer movement. I've been wrong in my assumptions of deer movement more often than I care to admit, and know this because I've had the luxury of seeing deer movement data in detail. My guess would be that they do influence movement in some fashion, but I can't say to what extent, or in what manner.



would be nice to know what effect of pile verses timed feeders . you hear these stories about , the spreader goes off and the bucks come running . i always figured the deer didn't care they knew it would be there that night .


Maybe on a very controlled access property with very little pressure would you see 'bucks running to a feeder', lol. That ain't happening on the vast majority of properties in the southeast.
I think some people watch too many of those fairy tale hunting shows and think that's how it works.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1245749
01/29/15 02:48 PM
01/29/15 02:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,635
East Alabama
M
MorningAir Offline
8 point
MorningAir  Offline
8 point
M
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,635
East Alabama
I can get pictures of bucks on camera at a feed site during daylight hours like clockwork, but as soon the season opens, or as soon as someone starts hunting within 500 yds of the site, the daytime pictures stop. I'd like to see a study done on feed versus day/night movement on 2 separate pieces of property, one with hunting, one without. I agree with Matt on the food during stress. On leased timber land, even with foodplots, there isn't an abundance of food for an Alabama deer to thrive on.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1245761
01/29/15 02:56 PM
01/29/15 02:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
J
jlccoffee Offline
14 point
jlccoffee  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
Animals eat to satisfy their energy requirement. When their energy requirement is met, they stop eating.

Corn is a high energy feed. A deer eating corn quickly meets it's energy requirement without having to move much looking for feed.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1245780
01/29/15 03:12 PM
01/29/15 03:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,578
Tuscaloosa Co.
N
N2TRKYS Offline
Booner
N2TRKYS  Offline
Booner
N
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,578
Tuscaloosa Co.
We are seeing a different result than the South Carolina study, Dr D. The timber/habitat type or pressure may be different? Can you pm me a link to that study? I'd like to read up on it? Thanks in advance.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: N2TRKYS] #1245976
01/29/15 04:52 PM
01/29/15 04:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,218
Auburn University
S
Steve Ditchkoff Offline
8 point
Steve Ditchkoff  Offline
8 point
S
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,218
Auburn University
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
We are seeing a different result than the South Carolina study, Dr D. The timber/habitat type or pressure may be different? Can you pm me a link to that study? I'd like to read up on it? Thanks in advance.


I'm sorry, but I don't have a link for it. I never read it when it was online because I read it before it was published. Sorry.

I'm sure the habitat and pressure are different between your property and the property where the study was done.


***************
Steve Ditchkoff
School of Forestry and Wildlife Sciences
Auburn University
***************
Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: Steve Ditchkoff] #1245980
01/29/15 04:55 PM
01/29/15 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,578
Tuscaloosa Co.
N
N2TRKYS Offline
Booner
N2TRKYS  Offline
Booner
N
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,578
Tuscaloosa Co.
Originally Posted By: Steve Ditchkoff
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
We are seeing a different result than the South Carolina study, Dr D. The timber/habitat type or pressure may be different? Can you pm me a link to that study? I'd like to read up on it? Thanks in advance.


I'm sorry, but I don't have a link for it. I never read it when it was online because I read it before it was published. Sorry.

I'm sure the habitat and pressure are different between your property and the property where the study was done.



Thanks for the reply. I understand.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1245996
01/29/15 05:08 PM
01/29/15 05:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,189
Cullman, AL
Randy74 Offline
6 point
Randy74  Offline
6 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,189
Cullman, AL
We see both bucks an does on our feeders in daylight. The property we are doing this on though is different. They are going to bed where they bed just about no matter what we do and they aren't going too far without running through town. Dr D and Matt knkw more than I ever will about deer but I do know in 2 years it hasn't really hurt or for that matter helped us. The deer are starting to be a little fatter though. A full grown doe on this property is about 75lbs. I agree the feeders aren't holding them and neither is the oaks, the food plots or anything else we have. It is all working together to provide them enough food not too leave the area completely. It's where they were born and raised and I believe will stay unless they run out of resources. The less they know we are there the better; which is one of the reasons we do feeders with timers instead of piles. We only have to fill about 1x every 3 weeks or so.

On another point: I know someone unfortunately that hunts over corn ALL the time and has for years. He kills several deer every year and often kills some good deer. It's most often on the same food plot(it's a big plot he plants and then keeps corn broadcast in it). It's almost like he can shoot one every week and they just keep coming back the next. It's crazy and they usually come out well before dark. I don't get it at all; it seems they aren't phased. The one thing he doesn't do though is ever pressure them anywhere in their habitat other than shooting on that one field. He slips in and slips out; never hunts anywhere else and could kill all he wanted year in and year out. Deer are peculiar creatures!

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1246292
01/30/15 03:17 AM
01/30/15 03:17 AM
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Posts: 5,649
Lincoln, Alabama
B
blumsden Offline
12 point
blumsden  Offline
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Posts: 5,649
Lincoln, Alabama
Deer move more at night, than during the day. More food, less movement. Thats why when i see a ton of acorns on the ground, that deer sightings are going to be less. I'm not about to spend the money on corn, when IMO, it doesn't help.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1246388
01/30/15 04:52 AM
01/30/15 04:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 886
Alabama
B
Bankhead3471 Offline
6 point
Bankhead3471  Offline
6 point
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 886
Alabama
I can get all my deer through the summer and a little during bow season off mineral sites then the cameras come up and back in storage. Corn is to much trouble and everything eats it. Hard to feed crows rabbits all kinds of birds coyotes coons, and #1 hogs. Corn is a huge waste of time and deer have plenty to eat they live in the wild for a reason.

Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1246451
01/30/15 05:40 AM
01/30/15 05:40 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,030
Central Alabama
M
muzziehead Offline
14 point
muzziehead  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,030
Central Alabama
I haven't done a deer study but I can confirm this:

We have 7 electronic feeders stationed in legal areas throughout our property of 1250 acres. We have cameras on every feeder. They were originally set to activate at 7am and 4pm through Dec 31, for 8 seconds intervals. We were getting several pictures of deer, both doe and bucks at the feeder locations the first two weeks, during daylight and dark hours. After a few weeks, the bucks completely stopped visiting the feeders during the daytime hours. In an effort to save oorn, we adjusted the feeders to activate at NOON each day. The bucks continued to visit the feeder locations during dark hours, typically after midnight and continue to do so. Our sightings of bucks on our food plots have dropped considerably since we began using the feeders. In January we have started to see younger bucks in the plots but they are just cruising, looking for doe. The pictures of bucks at the feeders these last two weeks of January have dropped off to almost ZERO, as they are no longer focused on eating but locating doe.

Based on our findings, we will not be setting up any feeders next season and should save our club between $1000 and $1500 a year, which will be used to build new shooting houses.


"Don't cling to Mistake, just because you spent a lot of time making it."
Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: muzziehead] #1246531
01/30/15 06:31 AM
01/30/15 06:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,242
just south of the Tennesse riv...
R
roadkill Offline
14 point
roadkill  Offline
14 point
R
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,242
just south of the Tennesse riv...
Lord knows (and everyone else) that I don't know anything about deer except how to hunt and cook them and I'm not too great at that. You cannot convince me that providing a large wild grazing animal that has free range capabilities with a new food source outside of its normal parameters isn't going to drastically affect its behavior. I'm thinking Ethiopians.
They have been living forever on not much of anything and have got pretty good at getting by or they would have died out. So they know where the food is and how to get enough of it to survive and reproduce. Now all of a sudden we go and add a Golden Corral in their village. And its free. You don't think that their behavior will change?

Last edited by roadkill; 01/30/15 07:36 AM.
Re: Corn impact on deer behavior [Re: getoutdoors] #1246586
01/30/15 07:26 AM
01/30/15 07:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,730
Hoover
burbank Offline
Booner
burbank  Offline
Booner
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Posts: 13,730
Hoover
This is interesting stuff. I know I have a neighbor that "feeds" in addition to his food plot.

My sightings always decline near/during/in the rut due to hard dick spikes harassing everything that moves. Food plot movement becomes very erratic. Cameras in the same plot will show 0 deer for two days, 12 on day three. No rhyme or reason to me. Maybe corn has something to do with it.

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