Yes and yes. Have that same scope and ran into this issue last week. Knew he had a BIG body, but could not properly id his rack. Hated to pass...

Look at the specs on the super zooms and you will see that they actually have a smaller exit pupil than comparable 3X scopes on low power. When I say 3X I mean 3X power ratio. The super zooms like a 2-12 or 2.5-15 will have a much smaller exit pupil on low power than a 3-10 or 4-12 with the same size objectiv. I personally think the 3X ratio scopes are brighter, at least they have been in the super zooms I've compared them to.

I have an older Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 that gathers enough light that I can see to shoot within 200 yards almost 10 minutes after my naked eyes fail me. And I have excellent eyesight. My Leupolds are only slightly less bright.

If you can't see it through a Swaro Z3 then it's time to go home or you need to get your eyes checked.. I have 3-10x42 Z3 and it will get you about 10 mins more than a zeiss conquest 3-9x40, which will allow you to shoot way later than you probably should anyway.

The huge objective scope are way overrated in my opinion. If it's that late you shouldn't need a scope on more than 7x power anyway.

If you end up with a meostar, do not buy the r1. Buy the r2 and thank me later

The best light gathering scope I've ever used is the Swarovski PH 2.5-10x56 with a 30 mm tube.

You should be able to pick one up used for $1100 or so.

I just bought a Swarovski Z3 4-12x50 with 4A reticle about 3 days ago. I think I got it Friday. After looking at it, it's just not for me and I've got a little buyer's remorse. I'll knock $150 or so off retail if you're interested in it.

I hear ya. I looked thru one BamaBart had on a rifle and I thought it was highly overrated for the cost of the thing.

This ..plus read this
http://www.opticsplanet.com/msgboard/about9-5733.html
I have 2 of the exact same scopes one in 40mm and one in 50mm. The only difference I could tell was at dark and both on 10x and it was very slight. I would choose the highest quality 40mm I could afford.

Camera Land New York, Demo/Sample list usually has a pretty good selection. They are also running a additional 10% off moving sale.
I have had very good experiences with Camera Land, Europtics, and Sportoptics.

My leupold vari x III will get me past legal light every day. I'd buy a good used scope with a good warranty whatever you get and save some money.

i guess i am just cheap but i cannot see (see what i did there?) paying $100 per minute past sunset. sometimes, you just gotta let the deer win ...

It's all relative to what you are used to spending. I can't see spending $1000 a year on Skoal or cigarettes. I would much rather own something instead. Not directed at you, just making a point.

A 2.5 is a Hard to beat!

I purchased a Minox Ze5i 3x15x56 from Cameraland and am quite impressed with the glass and light gathering capabilities. IMO it compares equally to my Zeiss Diavari 3x12x56.

don't smoke or dip or chew.
fixed income.
i'm a little bit cheap.
can't see worth a flip at dark.
don't mind letting the deer win.
$1,500 is half of what it will cost to replace the motor in my bride's suburban.

For $500 you can get a scope that 90%-95% as good as a $1000+ scope. You pay a lot for small increases after $500 in just a hunting scope.

I was just saying different people look at money differently. I get flack from some of my buddies because of what I spend on guns and scopes when they argue their whatever is just as good and complain they can't spend that kind of money. One of them smokes 2 packs a day and the others dips, no telling how much. We go somewhere hunting and both want to spend $50 at a steakhouse when I would rather eat cheap and spend it elsewhere.

har! gotcha, mr. clark.
i knew where you were coming from.

Mr. Clark me and you would get along just fine. My buddies are the same way

I appreciate the southern gentleman behavior but you can call me Randy and I would be honored if I ever get a chance to hunt with you folks. A lot of the guys on here are rough around the edges but all I've met were real good guys at heart.