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Re: shooting does [Re: rich19] #1170559
12/01/14 06:23 PM
12/01/14 06:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,778
Alabama
3
3FFarms Offline
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3FFarms  Offline
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Alabama
I'm honestly not sure what to do on our place. I've got two young ones that enjoy seeing deer each time they go. I've hunted places where I've sat an entire season and counted less than 10 deer. I've also hunted places where I've seen 100 deer/day. We've been "managing" our place going on 4 years. We average somewhere between 7-9 deer a hunt. Some hunts you might not see any, or maybe just one. If the stars align in late December, it's not unusual to see 25-30 in a sit. We have taken one, six and one doe off the property over the past three years. Our ratio is about 1 to 3.5. We feed year round and although our plots are eaten to the ground already, there is no browse line in the woods. I just enjoy seeing deer, and plenty of them, to go postal on them. I feel like we have a good balance and would rather err on the side of too much trigger restraint than too little. What should I be looking for in order to see if we need to take more does? Body weights are average for the area, although I feel antler sizes are below average, even with year round supplemental feeding. We also have the best fawn recruitment this year that I've seen since we've had the place. Most does are leading twins around.


Originally Posted by CNC
Ya'll are just overthinking it now

Re: shooting does [Re: ] #1170562
12/01/14 06:27 PM
12/01/14 06:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,514
Cullman,AL
T
turkey_killer Offline
8 point
turkey_killer  Offline
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T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,514
Cullman,AL
I live in Cullman, but hunt mostly public land. Bankhead the most because I can be there in 30 min. That's good to know though. I live in a bad county to deer hunt and there are lots of hunters. Will bankheads numbers likely improve?

Re: shooting does [Re: 3FFarms] #1170575
12/01/14 06:40 PM
12/01/14 06:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,510
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,510
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted By: 3FFarms
I'm honestly not sure what to do on our place. I've got two young ones that enjoy seeing deer each time they go. I've hunted places where I've sat an entire season and counted less than 10 deer. I've also hunted places where I've seen 100 deer/day. We've been "managing" our place going on 4 years. We average somewhere between 7-9 deer a hunt. Some hunts you might not see any, or maybe just one. If the stars align in late December, it's not unusual to see 25-30 in a sit. We have taken one, six and one doe off the property over the past three years. Our ratio is about 1 to 3.5. We feed year round and although our plots are eaten to the ground already, there is no browse line in the woods. I just enjoy seeing deer, and plenty of them, to go postal on them. I feel like we have a good balance and would rather err on the side of too much trigger restraint than too little. What should I be looking for in order to see if we need to take more does? Body weights are average for the area, although I feel antler sizes are below average, even with year round supplemental feeding. We also have the best fawn recruitment this year that I've seen since we've had the place. Most does are leading twins around.


Sounds like you are seeing plenty of deer. What are they? Does? Young bucks? Do you get any mature bucks on camera?

I'll say this too, just because you have mature bucks on your property doesn't mean they will be hanging on the meat pole before the year is over. They are extremely tough to kill even when your property produces them.


We dont rent pigs
Re: shooting does [Re: rich19] #1170704
12/02/14 03:34 AM
12/02/14 03:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 59
F
FH308 Offline
spike
FH308  Offline
spike
F
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 59
The idea that We can "self regulate" our deer herd to its best potential is obviously not working. While the rest of the country's deer herds improve ours is in decline. I myself am sick of seeing less deer/bucks while the neighbors self declare a high doe population as an excuse to shoot their guns.

It's obvious this is an issue. We have a couple forum biologists telling us how great the "science" is and the majority of the states stakeholders observing a decline in deer numbers and quality.

I can pick my nose and call it scientific research. We want to SEE results!

Re: shooting does [Re: FH308] #1170777
12/02/14 04:23 AM
12/02/14 04:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
Originally Posted By: FH308
The idea that We can "self regulate" our deer herd to its best potential is obviously not working. While the rest of the country's deer herds improve ours is in decline. I myself am sick of seeing less deer/bucks while the neighbors self declare a high doe population as an excuse to shoot their guns.

It's obvious this is an issue. We have a couple forum biologists telling us how great the "science" is and the majority of the states stakeholders observing a decline in deer numbers and quality.

I can pick my nose and call it scientific research. We want to SEE results!


Pump the brakes there guy... So you are telling me that you want the state to regulate what is being killed since self regulation isn't working? That's a far cry from what most people want.

Deer management is just as much people management as anything, the problem is people have free will and are going to do what they want anyway. We can't force change. We are trying our best to re-educate if you will, the hunting public. My gut tells me that it will take 10 years to get people in this state to buying in to what our Dept. is telling them. That said, we are going about things in a whole new way. Give us time, support us, even be suspicious if you want, just give us input and work with us instead of against us and take part in the changes to come.

Re: shooting does [Re: FH308] #1170803
12/02/14 04:39 AM
12/02/14 04:39 AM

M
Matt Brock
Unregistered
Matt Brock
Unregistered
M


Originally Posted By: FH308
The idea that We can "self regulate" our deer herd to its best potential is obviously not working. While the rest of the country's deer herds improve ours is in decline. I myself am sick of seeing less deer/bucks while the neighbors self declare a high doe population as an excuse to shoot their guns.

It's obvious this is an issue. We have a couple forum biologists telling us how great the "science" is and the majority of the states stakeholders observing a decline in deer numbers and quality.

I can pick my nose and call it scientific research. We want to SEE results!


Perfect example of taking things we say entirely out of context. I've managed properties for several years now and know how to manage deer. The problem is when you the entire public flexibility they abuse it. Half the people who are against government collecting data and requiring all deer be reported are the same people screaming we done killed to many! Which is it? You want the state to regulate and manage the resource or step out of private land business and let people do what they want? That obviously don't work.

Like I said time and time again, deer management is site specific, and you can not base your deer management opinions based only on where you hunt. It could be right the opposite 10 miles away. If you're not talking to your neighbors and trying to form cooperatives around your hunting area than there may be an over harvest of deer in that area. Keep in mind that is not the case everywhere. Some places in this state are extremely overpopulated still. I hunt managed and unmanaged properties and I don't struggle to see deer anywhere I hunt. I actually struggle to kill enough because the habitat indicates there's too many. And the whole time I may be seeing a half dozen or more deer per hunt the adjoining landowner may be crying about seeing no deer. Its not that the deer aren't there. Their hunting strategies are little to be desired. Some people just can't hunt or rely on deer to walk out into pressured areas. It don't work that way guys. I've conducted site visits to properties that claim to have no deer. As soon as I get out of the truck the dirt roads are littered with tracks, there's an obvious browse line, and all they hunt is plots day in and day out.

Last edited by Matt Brock; 12/02/14 04:48 AM.
Re: shooting does [Re: NightHunter] #1170814
12/02/14 04:47 AM
12/02/14 04:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 59
F
FH308 Offline
spike
FH308  Offline
spike
F
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 59
Originally Posted By: NightHunter
Originally Posted By: FH308
The idea that We can "self regulate" our deer herd to its best potential is obviously not working. While the rest of the country's deer herds improve ours is in decline. I myself am sick of seeing less deer/bucks while the neighbors self declare a high doe population as an excuse to shoot their guns.

It's obvious this is an issue. We have a couple forum biologists telling us how great the "science" is and the majority of the states stakeholders observing a decline in deer numbers and quality.

I can pick my nose and call it scientific research. We want to SEE results!


Pump the brakes there guy... So you are telling me that you want the state to regulate what is being killed since self regulation isn't working? That's a far cry from what most people want.


I'm confused, was that a joke? The state regulates ALL natural resources both hunting and fishing, to insure that all individuals have equitable access to these natural resources.

The state sets season and bag limit "regulations" that already exist. The part I disagree with is having such liberal doe limits with the idea that the public can ajust the harvest for some sort of optimal performance. It just isn't working and never will.

Re: shooting does [Re: rich19] #1170817
12/02/14 04:48 AM
12/02/14 04:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,510
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,510
Awbarn, AL
Matt beat me to the punch.....This will piss some folks off I'm sure but part of the issue is that many of the hunters in the woods just aren't good enough hunters to kill the deer that they are wanting to kill. I've seen it in my own club over the last couple years. One guys comes in reporting seeing 5-6 bucks chasing one doe while another guy stands there and talks about how he hasn't seen a racked buck all year. Then you get the lunch time circle of bull chit talk about all the things that need to change in order for them to be able to see deer. Its never them. Its always something else.


We dont rent pigs
Re: shooting does [Re: FH308] #1170823
12/02/14 04:56 AM
12/02/14 04:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: FH308
The idea that We can "self regulate" our deer herd to its best potential is obviously not working. While the rest of the country's deer herds improve ours is in decline. I myself am sick of seeing less deer/bucks while the neighbors self declare a high doe population as an excuse to shoot their guns.

It's obvious this is an issue. We have a couple forum biologists telling us how great the "science" is and the majority of the states stakeholders observing a decline in deer numbers and quality.

I can pick my nose and call it scientific research. We want to SEE results!


This is not only a Alabama problem. Many other areas of the country are seeing declining numbers. Dr. Kroll ( aka Dr. Deer) is doing a series of articles now in NAWT magazine about this very subject. Pick up the last 3 magazines or they may have them on their web site.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: shooting does [Re: FH308] #1170834
12/02/14 05:06 AM
12/02/14 05:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove

Let yer neighbors blast away, can't stop them and worring about it won't help. If they have food make yer place be the cover, if they have cover, make yours have the food. Or make yours have both, sanctuary with food. Keep pressure down by not hunting much till rut. Then go in and load the truck.

Habitat enhancement and a change in hunting tactics can work wonders.









Last edited by 2Dogs; 12/02/14 07:33 AM.


"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: shooting does [Re: rich19] #1170835
12/02/14 05:12 AM
12/02/14 05:12 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,587
alabama
B
Blessed Offline
10 point
Blessed  Offline
10 point
B
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,587
alabama
Guns coyotes and mother nature play a role in this as well thats the only thing that concerns me about killing to many does .
I agree 100 percent with Matt on trying to manage correctly , if you start seeing less body weights on your does etc then you probably do have a to many deer , we just need to be careful when trying to reach a happy medium .
I have been in situations where we see 25 does on a food plot and no bucks but i have also experienced 8-10 bucks eating in a
food plot and no does . I would like to know if you do a study and on your place you dont have numbers but you go to your neighbor and he is feeding 9 months out of the year and his numbers are excessive how many is he dragging off your property ?

Re: shooting does [Re: FH308] #1170986
12/02/14 07:07 AM
12/02/14 07:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
Originally Posted By: FH308
Originally Posted By: NightHunter
Originally Posted By: FH308
The idea that We can "self regulate" our deer herd to its best potential is obviously not working. While the rest of the country's deer herds improve ours is in decline. I myself am sick of seeing less deer/bucks while the neighbors self declare a high doe population as an excuse to shoot their guns.

It's obvious this is an issue. We have a couple forum biologists telling us how great the "science" is and the majority of the states stakeholders observing a decline in deer numbers and quality.

I can pick my nose and call it scientific research. We want to SEE results!


Pump the brakes there guy... So you are telling me that you want the state to regulate what is being killed since self regulation isn't working? That's a far cry from what most people want.


I'm confused, was that a joke? The state regulates ALL natural resources both hunting and fishing, to insure that all individuals have equitable access to these natural resources.

The state sets season and bag limit "regulations" that already exist. The part I disagree with is having such liberal doe limits with the idea that the public can ajust the harvest for some sort of optimal performance. It just isn't working and never will.


No joke. You are saying you want MORE regulations on harvest, right? You want tighter doe restrictions am I wrong, or have I misunderstood you?

Re: shooting does [Re: rich19] #1171073
12/02/14 08:12 AM
12/02/14 08:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 249
Decatur, AL
C
Chris4x4Gill2 Offline
4 point
Chris4x4Gill2  Offline
4 point
C
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 249
Decatur, AL
I passed on a decent doe opening weekend because it was a long drag back uphill and I didnt have any help lol

Re: shooting does [Re: rich19] #1171134
12/02/14 09:14 AM
12/02/14 09:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,095
White Plains Alabama
cgardner Online content
10 point
cgardner  Online Content
10 point
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,095
White Plains Alabama
When you're able to walk down a wooded road in Jan and not take a step without stepping on a rotten white oak acorn is when you know you're not over populated with deer!! I have noticed this on many tracts of land throughout the state. I have also seen a steady decline in the number of deer I get on game cameras.

Re: shooting does [Re: rich19] #1171447
12/02/14 01:21 PM
12/02/14 01:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,785
Florida
J
jacannon Offline
10 point
jacannon  Offline
10 point
J
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,785
Florida
We have been killing around 25 does a year on 2000 acres of planted pines for about 20 years and letting small bucks walk.35 plots 5 buck only and 2 does max on the other plots then they becomes buck only. Plant the best food we can, keep the ph up high so the grass is sweet. soil sample often. No corn. This year we locked our place up the first week of Oct. after planting. No human traffic till opening morning. Sure was nice to walk to my stand on opening morning and see no boot prints or 4 wheeler tracks. Every buck shot must be at least skull mounted and hung in the camp house for everyone to see. This is working for us.


Grandma said...Always keep a gun close at hand, you just never know when you might run across some varmint that needs killing...
Re: shooting does [Re: jacannon] #1171488
12/02/14 01:43 PM
12/02/14 01:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: jacannon
We have been killing around 25 does a year on 2000 acres of planted pines for about 20 years and letting small bucks walk.35 plots 5 buck only and 2 does max on the other plots then they becomes buck only. Plant the best food we can, keep the ph up high so the grass is sweet. soil sample often. No corn. This year we locked our place up the first week of Oct. after planting. No human traffic till opening morning. Sure was nice to walk to my stand on opening morning and see no boot prints or 4 wheeler tracks. Every buck shot must be at least skull mounted and hung in the camp house for everyone to see. This is working for us.


Sounds great, I like it. Ya'll gonna shut it down 2-3 weeks before rut and then bring the shock and awe?



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: shooting does [Re: FH308] #1171568
12/02/14 02:38 PM
12/02/14 02:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,236
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,236
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: FH308

The state regulates ALL natural resources both hunting and fishing, to insure that all individuals have equitable access to these natural resources.


I don't believe that is what the state is doing nor is it supposed to. Read a book on the North American Model of game management. There is NO equitable access nor should there be. See what happens when you kick 49r of this site!! Heresy!! shocked

Originally Posted By: FH308

The state sets season and bag limit "regulations" that already exist. The part I disagree with is having such liberal doe limits with the idea that the public can ajust the harvest for some sort of optimal performance. It just isn't working and never will.


They have to allow "lax" regulations since you might want a LOT of small deer on your land and manage for spikes and little does, and I might not want but just a few deer on MY land next door supporting large deer and a lot of bucks. I should be able to shoot my deer herd down to the size where they are not eating my bean garden for instance. If you don't like what the neighbor does, buy up more land or move!


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: shooting does [Re: rich19] #1172316
12/03/14 04:17 AM
12/03/14 04:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
J
jlccoffee Offline
14 point
jlccoffee  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
I like the liberal regulations but I think in the past the idea of shooting does was overdone. It heard it said that you should shoot every doe you can or that you can't shoot too many does by legal means. According to what your goals are, I don't think that is true.

I think education is the key, not regulation. I can see Matt and Nighthunter educating on this site that doe harvest is a site specific issue. I'm not totally against going from 2 does a day to one....from an education standpoint it sends the message that maybe we have overdone the doe harvest at least in some areas.

Re: shooting does [Re: jlccoffee] #1172391
12/03/14 04:58 AM
12/03/14 04:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: jlccoffee
I like the liberal regulations but I think in the past the idea of shooting does was overdone. It heard it said that you should shoot every doe you can or that you can't shoot too many does by legal means. According to what your goals are, I don't think that is true.

I think education is the key, not regulation. I can see Matt and Nighthunter educating on this site that doe harvest is a site specific issue. I'm not totally against going from 2 does a day to one....from an education standpoint it sends the message that maybe we have overdone the doe harvest at least in some areas.


Education not regulation X2. However, some folks just can't grasp that there are areas that can support a 2 a day limit. So they complain and complain cry and DCNR changes the whole state to one size fits all. crazy



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: shooting does [Re: rich19] #1172394
12/03/14 05:02 AM
12/03/14 05:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
J
jlccoffee Offline
14 point
jlccoffee  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
I agree with you 2dogs but in reality I doubt 2 a day or 1 a day makes a big difference. Most people shoot a certain number every year and then stop. Most hunters don't even shoot a deer every year and for others most only shoot a doe or two and that is all they want.

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