I am no biologist, but I realize how valuable the data is from hunters like me when it comes to deer density. I realize the posters on here killed more coyotes than deer today which is unreal for opening day. Opening day used to sound like a war zone a few years ago and today I heard two shots. Both of these shots were at coyotes! One of the Yates was killed and one was missed. I hunt an area that is over a thousand acres of unpressured private land and have only seen 10 deer all year. I have not seen a coyote on the property, but I have seen a tremendous amount of coyote sign. I do not have nearly as many deer as I have had in the past and these deer have not been shot out.

I know there is a huge problem on the horizon coming our way with the coyotes. We are going to have to attack this problem immediately as it is already out of hand in some areas. Maybe this site can get the ball rolling in regard to addressing our problem and let the ones in charge start devising a plan of action. A penny for you thoughts.

It is amazing how many coyote pics have shown, up. Not sure of the reason but there are lots of them. I also follow the TNdeer board, they have had lots of nice deer and the coyote problems are real there, too. Maybe we will see more deer killed as the weather and the rut start to get more favorable. (The rut is peek there right now in many places.) JMO.

I agree that there are more coyotes and other predators in my area than of years past. With the increase of coyotes, bobcats, fox, coons, and opossums that I have seen, I have also noticed a DECLINE in the turkey population of my area. I see a decline in deer numbers as well.
I see and hear people say that they don't want to mess up there deer hunt, by shooting a coyote. That is his opinion, and there is little I can do about that.
But what I can do and any one else that sees fit can do is try to even things out a little. I shoot every coyote that I have an opportunity to shoot at, and I have started trapping. I believe it will make a difference. If I only save one fawn or one turkey nest it will be worth it to me.
My $.02

Keep a half dozen traps in your vehicle and use them at your gut piles.

I live in northern Walton Co. Florida. We have lots of coyotes, see em all the time, but we also have LOTS of deer. The coyotes are not your main problem, it's the liberal doe harvest regs in Alabama. HeRe we have had 7 doe days for years, this year we have 8. The only difference between us and you is the huge difference in the number of days that does are allowed to be harvested. On my Alabama property the deer population has plummeted over the last 8 years, here in Florida the deer population has remained steady. Now for the first time here in Florida,we have antler restrictions. No spikes or 4 pointers can be harvested except by youth. We have plenty of deer, nice bucks, and we will soon have more older bucks since most of the 1 1/2 year old bucks are now off limits.I am impressed by how the FWC is managing our deer herd here but in AlaBama I wonder if the state is doing anything to manage the herd other than taking a complete hands off approach.Less regs can be better but I put zero confidence in everybody man aging their trigger finger. That, obviously IS NOT wor king in areas of Alabama.
THE DOE HARVEST NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IN PARTS OF ALABAMA, PERIOD!

Coyotes + liberal doe harvest= less deer

The land I hunt is covered in deer and there are a lot of coyotes also. I get more enjoyment out of trapping coyotes these days than I do deer hunting. I'll continue to pay the lease so I can hunt if I choose but I can trap coyotes year round. I have caught 8 coyotes the last few weeks with just a few traps out and the farmer whose land I'm trapping on has saw several more the last couple days since I pulled my traps. He is seeing them in his pasture around his cows. Now they will get a calf if giving the chance but they're mainly after the afterbirth and milk poop from the calves. I'll get back after them soon and do my part of getting rid of them. Just my .02 on the matter.

The same farmer whose land I am trapping is covered in deer. He gets a permit every year to kill deer for eating his crops. I don't know how bad the coyotes are on the deer on his land.

It's not coming. It's been here.

Year-round trapping is the most effective method, bar none. Shooting them helps, but a reliable, dedicated trapper is the best way to get a handle on them.

Sprinkle this on your gut piles at your club. Or mix it in some dog food close to where you have the yotes on cam. DONT get it on your hands.

Im not saying that we don't have a coyote problem, but people are a lot more likely to post pictures of a dead yote than a doe.

I highly doubt there were more yotes killed.... Literally killed one as I was posting!!!

I agree with this 100%. Coyotes are like a water leak. You don't know you have problem until you get the water bill and by then the damage is done. I am not a deer hunter but I ain't Ray Charles either. I've seen a problem for a long time growing. As far as trapping, people better read the rules and regs. I haven't lately but use to be traps had to tagged with name and phone number, checked EVERY day, etc. That checking EVERY day is a problem for a lot of people who don't live near their land.

I always read your post for 2 reasons: 1). Intelligent written, fact based material, 2). I am close and familiar with the area you hunt. But I disagree with the do harvest being the major factor. Yes, its a factor and should be addressed, but coyotes hunt and kill 24/7. Where they really hammer deer in your area is late August and September when fawns hit the ground. They may kill a few grown deer through the year but most fawns aren't getting to be grown deer in this county. If we knew the true mortality from coyotes to hunters to hit by cars and so on I believe coyotes would equal or surpass all others combined. Maybe the collared deer research will give us some insight to what's going on but that may still be too site specific. But some factual info is better than none.

What he said....

I think Ga did a study and they lost around 60% to coyote alone.

Using this to kill Coyotes is a violation of Federal law, and just a plain stupid idea. It will kill whatever eats it, is toxic to fish, and can contaminate the ground water.

Golden Malrin is a good fly bait, but people using it, or telling people to use it for things like killing coyotes on public forums is what will get it taken off the market or have its use restricted so the public can no longer get it.

Learn to trap and call and thin the coyote population the right way. It is a year round job.

High predator population + liberal doe harvest = very low deer population / hunter satisfaction

Just wait till yall have coyotes and bears oh my

Plus the black painters we already have

Yotes ain't the problem, people are.

I would say it is a combination of both....

I wished my deer would all die off and be replaced with turkey. THAT would be awesome.

I saw a bobcat yesterday at about 70 yards. I didn't shoot it.

Bobcats kill 3 times as many deer as yotes.

I see less coyotes now than I have in years past.

83% of statistics are made up

X2, and rarely hear them anymore too.

100% of mine are.

oh, and I said I didn't shoot it. I didn't say I didn't shoot at it.

Some interesting findings out of an ongoing Virginia study into coyotes, bobcats and deer:

http://www.alleghenymountainradio.org/vi...in-bath-county/

http://www.research.vt.edu/resmag/2014-summer/s2014-coyotes.html

I been thinking about this since it is a major issue to me for our deer and turkey population. If we really want them dead why not start a club incentive to do so. Get a couple guy to pony up say a pot of $100 or more for the person killing the most yotes from now till turkey season is over. People will be more inclined to shoot them when money is involved especially if it has a big pot.

To show I am not biased, I will agree 100% with this statement. I have not killed a doe in over ten years and the numbers are still going down. Game warden told me not to worry we had a lot of deer. I told him he was correct because we had a lot of deer, but we don't anymore. I am about to go on a trapping spree as soon as I can get around on my leg. One way or the other I am going to make a difference.

Shooting them is fun and cool. It also removes one from the pack.

Shooting one or two expands the range of the adjoining coyotes, though. Just for easy example, with a city block as a quartered grid, one yote in each quarter considers that his territory. Remove one and the other three will ease into that quarter and expand their range, or a fourth will move in. Some real biologists should (please) correct me if I'm wrong but that's the way i understand it.

I try to shoot 'em when I can. But your club bounty-kitty money might be better served hiring a trapper IF you own the land or the landowner would agree to it.

Alabama Trapper & Predator Control Association -- http://www.atpca.org/

National Trappers Association - http://www.nationaltrappers.com/links.html

I shoot everyone I see, every chance I get.

Trapping by a competent trapper is by far the best route! And, it needs to be done consistently every year....not just when you start seeing more yotes!

As far as the yotes here being the same as the Western Coyote, I disagree! They are larger here and do not even really look the same as the Western coyotes.

most Decembers I spend more time on the look out for yotes than deer, due to our rut being in late January and all deer movement is to a minimum in December. I wish I would have kept every picture of every yote I have killed on this little piece of property

with yotes kill 2 and 8 will be born that spring. just the way it is. the government even try posion and that did not work. not much is helping, but the closest thing that has cut back the yotes is year round trapping, and stay consistant stop one year of trapping them and watch the yotes double that year.. I have went as far as to TRY to help with the control of yotes by trapping and traveling on my dime and not the clubs. hate to say this but those days are long gone.HOW EVER I will still teach ANY one how to trap yotes and I want charge a dime to teach you.

yotes can be trapped all year on private land and that's what clubs are. there are a few things you guys could do to stop the yotes. here is a few ideas and yes it sure helps

one
in the late spring after turkey season have a predator hunt contest, there is two ways to pull this off one could be for members only and the winner which is the one with the most predators of that month contest gets a free member ship to that that club.

second one you could have a public contest were they pay to get in the contest and the pot goes to the winners ,works like a bass fishing contest.

third you could all chip in and buy the traps you need and take turns running the traps.

fourth hire a private trapper BUT BEREADY TO PAY OUT THE BACK SIDE. they want spend 100 bucks to catch a 4 buck yote

FITH
CALL MONTGOMERY get a state trapper LMAO good luck there , you might see one some times next year or the next IF YOUR LUCKY

the fact is hunters hates trappers , trappers hates hunters but the truth is they need each other ,

any more questions pm me

I've seen bobcats stalk turkey and I've seen them with squirrels in their mouths.
I don't know what coyotes eat primarily.

I agree with needing a trapper


Huston i disagree a yote is a yote no matter were it's at. I have trapped wyo yotes and I have trapped bama yotes, both feed on any thing from pets,live stock and deer, the only thing different is how they work your sets and were they roam

western yotes are open area yotes, our yotes are thick cover yotes but just the same both are yotes

Son of a ......!!!!!!!

I'm going to have to agree that our state's liberal harvest regulations are the primary reason for deer population decline. The open dates for doe harvest are way too long, and the buck harvest record is a joke. Many people are just going to fill out the paper while transporting the deer and throw it away when they get home. Coyotes aren't the problem, irresponsible hunters are.

in your area maybe but why blanket the whole state with a law to reduce harvest . i have to many , hell i cant have a garden with out maintaining a electric fence around it .

Any records kept on deer depredation kills?

I don't know how many deer were killed by coyotes within the hearing distance of where I hunted yesterday afternoon?

But I know how many rifle shots I heard of humans killing (or at least attempting) to kill deer. At least 25 - and it was windy, not a good afternoon for sound travel.

The issues of everything are usually combinations - but the last place humans look for answers - is always in the mirror.

predators cost you both game and money that's a fact.
any one ever seen a yote when a cow drops a calf , well I have and if they do that to a calf why not a fawn.not much difference just one is a tame animal and the other is wild ,

ok lets go another route about predators, take coon and deer feeders, that along cost the hunters that use corn in feeders .a family of coon can clean a feeder with 50 lbs of corn in less then week, once the coon find it, once the fighting starts which draws more coon and that feeder has no food in most cases over nite, lets say 7 bucks a bag of corn times 7 days that's 49 bucks times 4 that's 196 bucks a month which adds up to almost 2 grand a year, that's just for one family of coon.

what my point is when you bring in a trapper or you trap the predators your saving money and your building the deer herds as well as helping all your game birds, when a trapper comes in they remove every thing from possums to yotes.

you have to keep all the predators under control if not the predators will keep your game under control. more predators means less game. more preadators take more food to live.

thinking I am joking ask any trapper that traps red fox and they will tell you what red fox because of yotes there is very few left,

I think all hunting clubs need to add more money into their annual dues to pay a trapper then hire me to come catch all these problem coyotes! That way I can trap full time and retire!

I hate totes with a passion, BUT yotes get blamed on a lot of Calf deaths that never happened. The calf may have died, but not from the yote.. 90% of time

third you could all chip in and buy the traps you need and take turns running the traps.

fourth hire a private trapper BUT BEREADY TO PAY OUT THE BACK SIDE. they want spend 100 bucks to catch a 4 buck yote

FITH
CALL MONTGOMERY get a state trapper LMAO good luck there , you might see one some times next year or the next IF YOUR LUCKY

the fact is hunters hates trappers , trappers hates hunters but the truth is they need each other ,

Mr. William I agree with some of this and disagree with some of it.

I don't think most trappers are paid nearly what they're worth. People see they can buy a dozen traps for $200 -/+ and think trappers are charging way too much. What they aren't considering is all the other stuff it takes to effectively set up and run traps.

Why would hunters hate trappers? If a trapper does his job efficiently and effectively the hunters in the area should love him.

Coyotes have been and still are a big problem at our place. For this reason alone I haven't shot a doe in four years due to the fact we aren't seeing as many or with fawns. I'm the only one that bow hunts our place and I've only seen one spotted fawn in the last three years. Don't have any on cameras at the feeders either.

We have a couple of pear trees about forty yards behind the camp house and when you are pulling in the evening your headlights will shine on the deer eating them. This has been a common thing the past ten years or so. But not this year. Now you see coyotes eating the pears off the ground. We've never seen this before and is very disturbing. We are definitely going to hire a trapper.

If a trapper runs his line like he should he will have a heck of a lot of time invested. I was running less than 10 traps on about 600 acres and it would take about a hour to run them before work. How many folks are willing to get up a couple hours before work and run traps? My guess would be not many, kinda like a guy that would set a hog trap and check it once a week. I have more respect for a animal than to leave it in a trap longer than is needed.

Choot em trap em no poison though. They have the run of my property yote tracks on deer tracks, yippin and barking sunrise and sunset. Hard shot they never stop if I see them they are running. Im afraid they are like hogs its a loosing battle.

north40 trappers don't get paid for what they are worth not in fur or money and one must be dam good to make it in the adc business , what people fail to think about is the time it takes in the field chasing trap shy animals. once a beaver or yote gets popped and gets out then the real game starts. you know that and I know that.true any one can set a trap but even then they need more then the basics.

I am not saying all hunters hates trappers but I can say this much and I have seen it over and over as well from others.some dog runners hates traps period . been told several times to my face. two years ago had 60 traps taken off the Talladega national forest the next year lost 18 more and these was behind locked gates, the locks was cut and traps taken.called the warden and was told I only deal with private land, that gets under my skin bad . they are paid to do a job and that job should be private and public

now Jackie Malone works the kid shops along with fish and game and I respect that. at least it is a start

what the trappers need to do is teach more about traps to the public , you and I both know it is how the trap is used ,most think that a trap breaks a foot or it cuts the foot off , we both knows it want, even had a warden trip a duke 1 1/2 coil and told me to my face that trap could have broke a kids foot. lol heck that kid must of had some real small feet,

let me correct the post above hunters don't hate trappers they hate traps. that's from what they seen or learned from sloppy trappers and no education about the traps, the thing is traps with teeth is a thing in the past,i want go in to the anti ways of twisting a persons mind right now

I have caught several dogs in traps and none have had a broke foot. If a trap won't brake a gray fox's foot it won't brake a dogs foot. I think it goes back to checking the traps regular. If you leave anything in a trap long enough it is gonna have damage to its foot. Just my opinion, Jon

Jon you are right! If you set the traps up like they're supposed to be with enough swivels and check them every morning you don't have to worry about anything with broken legs! I've caught many, many dogs that I can guarantee you when they got home the owners couldn't even tell that ol' Fido had spent the night pinched in one of my traps!

They must have moved to my neck of the woods. They're like fireants here. Kill one and 2 move in.

I ran traps here for one year. It's nearly impossible to do when you have to be at work at 7:00 am. I caught 2 dogs while trapping. Neither had a broken toe but my traps do have offset jaws. They were both big dogs. Those big white goat pen dogs. I got one of them out and it never growled at me. The other one I had to keep contained with the choke stick.

I caught my own fingers, 3 of them, in a MB550. Hurt like the dickens but didn't break any bones.

Bet it didn't hurt as bad as a cow biting it...

Fur all of my traps are offset also and I've added laminations to increase the width of the surface that actually holds the foot.

There's a right way and a wrong way to do things and it's the guy that buys a couple stock traps then uses tie wire to secure them to trees that gives trappers a bad name!

norh40 you and jon hit the magic words right there .the thing is once trapping gets a bad name that's a problem that is hard to fix.it don't take much to stir the pot when it comes to traps and pets . the public eye is always watching the trappers and the anti's will use any and every thing they can to stop trapping.thats why proper education on traps is needed.when I first started 50 years ago there was no free info out there and no one to teach me . all hard knocks and mistakes but I learned from mistakes. now with todays free info there is no reason for a mistake when it comes to using traps, no reason what so ever.
now in the old days trappers was tight lip and I beleave lead to a lot of sloppy trappers because they learned it that way because no one would teach. not so in todays world . there is always free info if they only look. now I will add this not every thing you read is good, one must pick out the good and toss out the trash. the trappers goals should be teaching the right ways and exsplaining why you don't do some thing you know is wroung , as a example take 22o conibears illegal here on land but legal in other states but just the same we as a trapper knows that trap will kill a dog or cat in a heart beat. just because some thing is legal don't always make it right.

we as sportsman need to pull togather and work togather before we all lose every thing.

my point is

there will always be a few bad apples but it is up to us to toss out the bad apples so the rest don't ruin. mean the more we teach the less sloppy trappers we have

record
my land traps are off set and now have four swivels,unless they are for water then it is two on a drowner.

I caught my 8 year old last year. Didn't hurt at all. I let him loose cause he hasn't been killing my deer too bad. [img:center]http:// [/img]

Coyote problem is going to get worse before it will get better. Too many folks think coyotes aren't making a dent in their deer numbers. Next time you are in the woods count how many fawns you see and post the number up in this thread. I am interested in knowing how other clubs fawn numbers rank with mine.

Lol.. glad to see you practicing catch and release

Teacher I have seen probably 12-15 fawns this year most does I see have 1. I've seen a lot of younger does last year fawns and several older does without any. I've seen very few does with twins and I assume we lost some of them to predators.

All these coyotes , dog hunters and doe days.

I'm shocked any deer are left in alabama to be honest.

I am not sure if you are just joking or not....

BUT, many of the groups in this neck of the woods that dog hunt, do not shoot many does. Most of them are run by older guys that still remember the times when there were not many deer and just do not believe in shooting them. They do kill a lot of deer! But, their Reproduction rate is high and they Recruit a lot of deer into the herd every year.

Now, as far as the younger still hunters who grew up during the 'shoot every doe you see and hunt another one' era.......that is another story!!! LOL

It is a combination of lower doe densities and reduced Recruitment Rates due to Predation. BUT, many hunters still prescribe to the SAME harvest criteria/antlerless kill. If you want more deer, shoot less does! If the results are not fast enough/evident enough; couple that with aggressive Predator Control. Dang, it ain't Rocket Science!

BUT, remember.....if you want to have more deer and the same quality, you need to provide more food!

Yes, I was being sarcastic

I thought so!

But, dang......nowadays, with some of the stuff I hear/see......I have just quit taking anything for granted! LOL

from one of the links

IMO alabama should legalize snares with the choke down stops

There is a combo of Problems going on in Alabama. But a few things that are going good also.

1. Yotes, they are a problem and have been for awhile now. Think we are seeing more pics posted because people are finally tired of the Dang Critters.

2. Liberal Doe days Good and bad. It allows a person, Club, Or lodge to manage there own heard. In the other hand it lets the guys next door knock them down also.

3. Habitat, I think this is the Big one right now. The day of Farmers in the area are going down hill fast. Just take a look at Lowndes or Dallas County. There are about 3 big farmers left in Lowndes and a lot of them have turned to sod. The old fields of Soybeans, Cotton, Corn and peanuts are Now Pine Plantations. Throw in Clear cutting and subdivisions areas popping up the habitat is in a dwindle.

It seems we are seeing bigger bucks or people are posting more. But I think people are catching on its not just go out and hunt and be done with it. They are feeding during spring and summer. Opening up canopy's for more new under growth. So good is coming it just doesn't happen over night. Heck even the state on some WMA's have put antler Restrictions so they are trying also.

A snip it from Clem's link........

So, for example, the mortality is really, really high in Bath County. Sixty three percent of the coyotes we collared were killed within the first year of being captured. But the population density isn�t decreasing. And that�s because mortality doesn�t really have an effect on population density, because their reproduction increases in response to increased mortality.�

Son and I hunted three days in Northwest Colbert and saw only three deer. Stalk hunted every morning until the club next door turned the dogs loose. That was when we saw the three does. Ten million acorns on the ground and no deer to eat them that we can find. PS-We are fairly good hunters, not weekend warriors. Did not see the first coyote either. I think the damage has already been done on our property.

Me and my son went hunting yesterday afternoon. I saw 8 deer and he saw 6 in the plot he was sitting in. I shot one and lost blood so I backed out until this morning. This is what I found, nothing but hide and bone.

Last year I found this twice at my moms place between Talladega and Lincoln.
One in the back pasture and one fairly decent buck in the yard.

Imagine what she went through when the yotes found her. I wish I could personally kill every one of them in Colbert County. No matter what folks on here say, yotes are a major problem.

83% of statistics are made up [/quote]

I never have understood the idea that killing coyotes or a coyote doesn't make any difference to the coyote population, over my pay grade I guess. Makes me feel better anyway.

X2

Hey Timber these coyotes are on the land that used to be one of your clubs. Man you ought to have heard them down there around Tommy's gate yesterday right before dark. This doe was across the road from y'all's sign in board.

The days of leaving deer and going back the next morning are about over. Either find them that night or the yotes will.

Did you not learn about "population dynamics" while you were in forestry school? I believe it was taught in the class called "Principles of Wildlife Management".

But if you have two coyotes and you kill both of them, then you have zero coyotes........right?

No, it's like deer, the more you shoot the more there are. That's why you have to shoot more does not less. Understand now? Killing things does not make less of them. New math.

I have had several people supposedly educated people tell me that exact thing. If you kill more does you will have more deer, and I didn't believe it then and I still don't.

damn new math....

If one kills 50% of the yotes in an area in June there sure as all hell won't be an increase to pre killing numbers before the fawns are grown. You just have to keep killing them....

I've killed so many damn yotes last season and this season so far I lost count. I don't even call or anything, I have this one field surrounded by swampy area I call the predator field. Coyotes and Bobcats LOVE this area. I just sit on the berm of the reservoir and wait lol, I'm actually sitting here right now. Giving the hunt for killer a days rest. I saw four yotes in this field the other evening coming out of the woods, too far/ dark for a shot.

Yea I don't know how that works supposedly if you thin the herd it gives the deer more food in that area so they can reach their full potential. Still don't see how that creates more deer haha. I just rarely ever shoot does.

If you had two coyotes in a pen and shot then both then yes, you have zero coyotes. But you don�t have yotes in a pen. You don�t have 800 acres of coyotes or 1,000 acres of yotes or however big each person�s land may be. Coyote populations exist on a landscape scale. If you look at the Savannah River Study�.they killed a yote over 200 miles from where it had been trapped and tagged.

Deer populations and coyote populations do not function in the same manner. One is a predator species and one is a prey species. Also, deer have singletons and twins while yotes have litters. Predator populations are driven by the amount of competition for available food. Let�s say there is a ton of food and only a few yotes. Those few yotes will have all they want to eat. Hunting success rates will be high because of the high amount of food and low amount of competition. In turn litters will be bigger and survival rates will be higher amongst the existing yotes. That is until the coyote population grows and reaches a density that competition for food becomes more intense. When coyote populations begin to grow then the amount of food available to each yote becomes less and the hunting success rate becomes less. This results in smaller litters and lower survival rates. Removing yotes at this point only increases the success rate of the remaining yotes. If you remove all the yotes from your property, then the surrounding yotes are just going to move in to the area where there is no competition for food.

Never heard this.

That's a theory. They are no different than anything else though. You kill enough of them the population goes down. It makes no sense to throw your hands up and say" nothing I can do, the more I kill the more pups they will have or more will move in.". It's an ongoing process like everything else in nature. You can control numbers if you kill, trap, whatever, as long as you keep at it it makes an impact.

Dang, them yotes were hungry. You need to feed them more often.

When more come in, one can still kill and trap those as well. Further decreaseing the population.
One thing I know for sure is that every one I kill, is one that will not eat any more fawns, turkeys, rabbits, or squirrels.

I see you guys have it all figured out already. Carry on.

This has been studied and proven. It's not a theory or even debatable. If your only method of population control is hunting them then numbers will stay static or even increase because instead of the Alpha male being the primary breeder the juveniles( who are usually not involved in breeding ) will start to breed. This increases conception rates. More bred females means more coyotes. Shoot all you like but you aren't going to decrease the population.

Need to give them all a dose of parvo.

Agree with Bill, heavy trapping is the best and proven method

I know a club several years ago put out Temek as a way of eliminating their yotes. They killed every yote for miles around and got rid of them. It took about two years before they ever saw another one. I do not want anyone to think I am in approval of putting out Temek because I am not, but when they killed their pack out, they were out of yotes. I guess the new recruits fed on animals poisoned and also met their demise. Long story short, they killed them out and their deer numbers rose. They even left deer over night that had been wounded and never had yotes get one. Kill them all and then there will be none.

I still remember a club that did that and had to buy some expensive coon dogs.

Careful Teacher. These boys on here don't like the poisoning thing.