We are fixing to cut the timber on our place, and I would like to hear what advice people in the business have to offer the landowner. The contracts was signed months ago, and the cutting should begin fairly soon.

I trust my logger and have gone over everything I want and expect with him, but be won't be the guy cutting the place, so is there anything in particular I need to watch out for? I wont be able to be on the property when they are cutting, but plan on being there every afternoon.

Put a camera up on the entrance exit. Not saying they would but I know folks who caught loggers slipping loads out and not getting paid on them.

You are months late asking this question.


What kind of cut? How are you to be paid? Are the sale boundaries marked? Have you taken pictures of the current road conditions? Is there a performance deposit?

I probably am Rebelman, but I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on this, but can't help from feeling like there is something I should be doing while they are actually cutting the place.To answer your questions:

-Clear cut

-We are getting paid on tonnage, and I have the price schedule for ply logs, poles, pulp, etc...

-Yes the boundaries are established. I am only dealing with 90 acres, and the whole place is getting cut with the exception of the SMZs.

-I have not taken pictures of the roads, but there really isn't much to take pictures of. The place was let go for a long time, and if it wasn't for me stepping in nothing would ever be done with it. We are way late on cutting the place, and it doesn't look like there ever was much of a road system on it.

-You will have to fill me in on what a performance deposit is. This and the road thing are the kind of stuff I was looking for.

The best thing to have done is a lump sum. Good luck.

I totally agree. A family member just signed a contract to cut timber and already has te check in hand for the clear cut.
To me, it's up to them to estimate tonnage and give you a fair price upfront. If you're counting on them to give you a load count with tonnage, I'd be nervous.

I disagree on the lump sum method, timber people have lost their butts on lump sum sales so much they are very conservative on their cruises, lot of factors go into the final price. One thing, most companies don't have $150,000 or so they can write a check for on a sale. They have to borrow the money and the interest comes off of the sale price. With a well structured contract on a per ton price, using a honest buyer/logger is better. The contract should have had any concerns written into it. Visit the sale area as often as possible, have a neighbor or friend stop by. If you put a camera on the road make the time between pictures just a few seconds or you might miss two trucks going out together.

Pay as cut usually provides more money to the landowner if dealing with an honest timber company. Anybody that is willing to put up lump sum money up front is gonna be conservative for reasons mentioned above, and rightfully so.

Sometimes our company will put up a really conservative lump sum price..... A sort of guarantee that it will cut at least X amount of dollars. As soon as that price is reached the landowner starts getting checks again on the overage just like a pay as cut contract would work. I think this is the most fair way for both parties and the most beneficial to the landowner.

Just keep up with how many loads go out per week and make them show you all the scale tickets they get from the mills they carry the logs/pulpwood to and you will be fine as long as everything matches up.

There is a lot of ifs that get most folks. Most folks won't be able to be there all the time. Most folks won't know if the buyer/logger is honest or not until it's too late. Most folks only have enough land to get screwed once. If you know how much is out there, then you know if their lump sum price is good or not. Do what you want, but piece of mind is worth a lot, too.

If I were pulling off a once in a lifetime cut I believe I'd hire a trusted friend or family member that's retired and I'd rotate days with them counting loads. Pay them $100 a day to piddle around and count loads would be well worth it at the end of the cut. But thats just me.

x1000

My last cutting I had some loads bring around $1600/load. Hard wood logs. 1 of those a week not accounted for adds up. Advantages and disadvantages to both lump sum and by the load. Last one was by the load. They came in and cut all the good timber and the rain set in. They went to pull out leaving me with about 10 acres of junk that I knew they wouldn't come back for. Heck NO!!! Talked to the forester and made sure they finished before they left. Lump sum - by the load = flip a coin.

Not many folks out there are going to straight up steal a load from you. Hiring a guy off the street isn't going to get you very much. What is more likely to happen is the loader gets sloppy and doesn't merchandise correctly. He loads a small saw timber tree on the pulpwood truck. Or a pole on the saw timber truck. Doing that repetitively can make a big difference.

Fuzzy, once you sign a lump sum contract the timber company has X amount of time to do whatever they want to with the timber on your property, as long as they use Best Management Practice guidelines and follow anything written into the contract.

Deal with a reputable, established company. I sell most of ours by the ton. You will get paid once a week till they finish. Get the scale tickets and check their math on each check. Check on them daily and make SURE they are merchandising the timber correctly (logs vs paper wood vs poles. etc). Make sure the SMZs and property lines are flagged to your satisfaction. Make sure they own or have access to a dozier and properly close out the roads with water bars/turnouts. If you plan on replanting tell them to keep the tops/debris concentrated near the loading ramp so you can spot rake it in piles and burn it. If you have a tract they can cut when it's wet that's probably when they will cut it - make sure they don't make a mess of it. The crew has a book where they log in loads each day - ask to see it when you check on them. Good loggers are honest, hard working folks who want to please. My pet peeve is they ALL want to build a fire in the morning and I don't allow that on our place at all. I am also intolerant about trash and firearms (rifles) in the trucks.

Prices can vary a WHOLE lot during the year depending on weather, demand, etc. Timing is VERY important in getting top prices. Don't just say I believe I need to cut some timber. Check on prices and see if they are trending up or down first.

I handle multiple timber transactions a month, both personally and as an attorney that represents a lot of landowners and timber companies (forestry degree before going to law school). Unless someone forgets to carry the naught in their calculations, generally the only time lump sum might be better for the landowner is if it is a unique, high demand mature track and it is offered for silent bid. When dealing with a timber company, per unit or per unit w/ advance normally yield a higher stumpage price because the buyer has less risk and transaction costs. If you have the ability, doing some road work before selling your timber can also increase the stumpage price buyers will pay.

I use to sell a lot of timber lump sum for clients in NW FL. One tract I sold I had estimated about $190,000 as the price. I had 6 bids, the first 5 were within $10,000 of my estimate and the last one I opened was $300,000. The old boy had an error in his bid, but he paid up and lost his butt. That was one of the worst mistakes I have seen, but I knew him and it tickled the crap out of me.

I have opened lump sums and truly felt sorry for he buyer.

If a lump sum is done correctly all the risk is on the buyer.

Another thing to remember about a pay per load cut is that the prices fluctuate. They could go up or down based on hauling cost or the amount the mills are paying. If you can get a mill to lock you in for the whole track, then more power to you. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

I don't do lump-sum bids. I want to be paid for what I have, nothing more, nothing less. I always sell on a per-ton basis, but I always stay with the logger too. Yeah, your kinda late asking any questions though. If its not already in the contract, then it doesn't matter what you learn here. Good luck. Selling timber is exciting! Gives me a rush!