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Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: straycat] #1023218
07/24/14 01:09 PM
07/24/14 01:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Bamabucks14 Offline
12 point
Bamabucks14  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Very few of the people in this thread studied Anthropology. On a literature standpoint, read the story of Gilgamesh and countless others. Jesus Christ's story was not an original. I am a believer in a higher power, but when Christ's story copies so many it's hard to think he is All and Everything. As a smart man in Thomas Paine said in Common Sense, published Jan. 10th 1776, " My mind is my own church."

Last edited by Bamabucks14; 07/24/14 01:15 PM.

"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: h2obuck] #1023238
07/24/14 01:32 PM
07/24/14 01:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,496
Northport
B
Bamarich2 Offline
8 point
Bamarich2  Offline
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Northport
Originally Posted By: h2obuck
Originally Posted By: Bamarich2

However, my salvation also comes from my obedience to His word.


If salvation ALSO comes from obedience then it is not by grace. The good news of the gospel is that Jesus has kept the law for us so our right standing before God is dependent on what Jesus has done instead of what I do. The gospel is the opposite of your statement....instead the gospel says that my obedience comes from my salvation. As I receive God's grace and trust completely in what Jesus has done for me then I am able to extend His grace, forgiveness, compassion, etc. to others.

http://adam4d.com/done/


This is the major issue with people understanding "grace" in today's world. According to Genesis 6:8, Noah obtained "grace" in the eyes of God. Did that then mean he was saved without obedience? Could Noah have been saved without God acting first? No... God gave him a plan to follow... and he followed it. Did the fact Noah obeyed nullify his being saved by grace? Absolutely not!

In instituting the law of Moses, God provided information to the COI which would preserve their life - things relate to hygiene, diet, etc. God was of indebted to do so, thus that law came into being because God chose them - by His grace. Yet, the law did the COI no good unless they obeyed it.

Ephesians 2:8 claims that in the New Testament, people are saved by God's grace through faith. A faith pleasing to God, biblically speaking, is a trust in God which compels a person to comply with His requests - that's the illustration repeatedly emphasized in Hebrews 11.

For those of you who claim "obedience cancels out grace", then what you are really claiming is that everyone will be saved. Why? Because even belief in Christ is something a person does - in response to a passage like John 3:16. You cannot harmonize passages such as 1 Peter 1:22 or Ephesians 2:8 with the "grace only" idea.

Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamabucks14] #1023275
07/24/14 02:11 PM
07/24/14 02:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,496
Northport
B
Bamarich2 Offline
8 point
Bamarich2  Offline
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B
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,496
Northport
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Very few of the people in this thread studied Anthropology. On a literature standpoint, read the story of Gilgamesh and countless others. Jesus Christ's story was not an original. I am a believer in a higher power, but when Christ's story copies so many it's hard to think he is All and Everything. As a smart man in Thomas Paine said in Common Sense, published Jan. 10th 1776, " My mind is my own church."


Jesus' story would be a total copy if the book containing it were an ordinary book. The bible contains foreknowledge of humanity that only can be explained by supernatural inspiration. Prophecies from the Old Testament were fulfilled in detail hundreds of years after they were predicted. There are many other historical books which have some of the same kinds of stories in them, but none of them contain these two additional elements - proofs that this book isn't an ordinary book.

Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamarich2] #1023284
07/24/14 02:26 PM
07/24/14 02:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Bamabucks14 Offline
12 point
Bamabucks14  Offline
12 point
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Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Bamarich2
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Very few of the people in this thread studied Anthropology. On a literature standpoint, read the story of Gilgamesh and countless others. Jesus Christ's story was not an original. I am a believer in a higher power, but when Christ's story copies so many it's hard to think he is All and Everything. As a smart man in Thomas Paine said in Common Sense, published Jan. 10th 1776, " My mind is my own church."


Jesus' story would be a total copy if the book containing it were an ordinary book. The bible contains foreknowledge of humanity that only can be explained by supernatural inspiration. Prophecies from the Old Testament were fulfilled in detail hundreds of years after they were predicted. There are many other historical books which have some of the same kinds of stories in them, but none of them contain these two additional elements - proofs that this book isn't an ordinary book.

So dinosaurs??? It doesn't mention that. Or what about his relationship with Mary Magdalene? Oops those are in the books of the bible that Diciples so conventionally left out. Just saying....also, the foreknowledge of Christ can be absolutely compared to the "foreknowledge" of Nostradamus. Same predictions and They happened. Is there a religion praising Nostradamus? No, just people with 2000 + years less knowledge than we have now. Take advantage of it.


"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamabucks14] #1023289
07/24/14 02:29 PM
07/24/14 02:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,377
Marshall County
FurFlyin Offline
Freak of Nature
FurFlyin  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,377
Marshall County
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Originally Posted By: Bamarich2
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Very few of the people in this thread studied Anthropology. On a literature standpoint, read the story of Gilgamesh and countless others. Jesus Christ's story was not an original. I am a believer in a higher power, but when Christ's story copies so many it's hard to think he is All and Everything. As a smart man in Thomas Paine said in Common Sense, published Jan. 10th 1776, " My mind is my own church."


Jesus' story would be a total copy if the book containing it were an ordinary book. The bible contains foreknowledge of humanity that only can be explained by supernatural inspiration. Prophecies from the Old Testament were fulfilled in detail hundreds of years after they were predicted. There are many other historical books which have some of the same kinds of stories in them, but none of them contain these two additional elements - proofs that this book isn't an ordinary book.

So dinosaurs??? It doesn't mention that.


Um, yes it does.


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamabucks14] #1023291
07/24/14 02:31 PM
07/24/14 02:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,080
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,080
Chelsea, AL

Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Originally Posted By: Bamarich2
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Very few of the people in this thread studied Anthropology. On a literature standpoint, read the story of Gilgamesh and countless others. Jesus Christ's story was not an original. I am a believer in a higher power, but when Christ's story copies so many it's hard to think he is All and Everything. As a smart man in Thomas Paine said in Common Sense, published Jan. 10th 1776, " My mind is my own church."


Jesus' story would be a total copy if the book containing it were an ordinary book. The bible contains foreknowledge of humanity that only can be explained by supernatural inspiration. Prophecies from the Old Testament were fulfilled in detail hundreds of years after they were predicted. There are many other historical books which have some of the same kinds of stories in them, but none of them contain these two additional elements - proofs that this book isn't an ordinary book.

So dinosaurs??? It doesn't mention that. Or what about his relationship with Mary Magdalene? Oops those are in the books of the bible that Diciples so conventionally left out. Just saying....also, the foreknowledge of Christ can be absolutely compared to the "foreknowledge" of Nostradamus. Same predictions and They happened. Is there a religion praising Nostradamus? No, just people with 2000 + years less knowledge than we have now. Take advantage of it.


Please don't hijack the thread.
Thanks.


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: FurFlyin] #1023299
07/24/14 02:38 PM
07/24/14 02:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Bamabucks14 Offline
12 point
Bamabucks14  Offline
12 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Originally Posted By: FurFlyin
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Originally Posted By: Bamarich2
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Very few of the people in this thread studied Anthropology. On a literature standpoint, read the story of Gilgamesh and countless others. Jesus Christ's story was not an original. I am a believer in a higher power, but when Christ's story copies so many it's hard to think he is All and Everything. As a smart man in Thomas Paine said in Common Sense, published Jan. 10th 1776, " My mind is my own church."


Jesus' story would be a total copy if the book containing it were an ordinary book. The bible contains foreknowledge of humanity that only can be explained by supernatural inspiration. Prophecies from the Old Testament were fulfilled in detail hundreds of years after they were predicted. There are many other historical books which have some of the same kinds of stories in them, but none of them contain these two additional elements - proofs that this book isn't an ordinary book.

So dinosaurs??? It doesn't mention that.


Um, yes it does.

Where other than the dragon/serpent in the desert in the book of Revelations does it mention one?


"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: straycat] #1023306
07/24/14 02:42 PM
07/24/14 02:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Bamabucks14 Offline
12 point
Bamabucks14  Offline
12 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Sorry apparently free conversation is taking the authenticity of this thread away. Or people of "The Man" don't like hearing others opinions. Guess since I don't believe the same thing, I'm not invited.


"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: straycat] #1023322
07/24/14 02:53 PM
07/24/14 02:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Bamabucks14 Offline
12 point
Bamabucks14  Offline
12 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Btw just for people reading I'm not trying to be an arse, when I was 7-16 years old I was forced to memorize the scripture or I wouldn't be able to eat dinner. Now that's fine and dandy, just good to express an opinion every once in a while. Also, I'm only 25 y/o but from how I was brought up, I'd wager I know the scripture better than 98% of the members here. It's almost a reflex.


"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: straycat] #1023331
07/24/14 02:59 PM
07/24/14 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 23,870
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
bill Offline
Freak of Nature
bill  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 23,870
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
Knowing and being able to quote scripture is far different than being able to discern and understand scripture and context.


"Political debate: when charlatans come together to discuss their principles"
-
Bauvard
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamabucks14] #1023346
07/24/14 03:10 PM
07/24/14 03:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,669
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
wmd  Offline
10 point
W
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Posts: 4,669
Madison, AL
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Sorry apparently free conversation is taking the authenticity of this thread away. Or people of "The Man" don't like hearing others opinions. Guess since I don't believe the same thing, I'm not invited.


Since the topic is "Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials" and by your comments you would not seem to consider yourself a member of the Body of Christ, then yeah, your comments aren't really pertinent to the thread.


"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: wmd] #1023350
07/24/14 03:13 PM
07/24/14 03:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Bamabucks14 Offline
12 point
Bamabucks14  Offline
12 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Originally Posted By: wmd
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Sorry apparently free conversation is taking the authenticity of this thread away. Or people of "The Man" don't like hearing others opinions. Guess since I don't believe the same thing, I'm not invited.


Since the topic is "Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials" and by your comments you would not seem to consider yourself a member of the Body of Christ, then yeah, your comments aren't really pertinent to the thread.

Ah so this is a Christian only no outside opinions thread, typical.


"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamabucks14] #1023356
07/24/14 03:15 PM
07/24/14 03:15 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
R
R_H_Clark Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R_H_Clark  Offline
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R
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Originally Posted By: wmd
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Sorry apparently free conversation is taking the authenticity of this thread away. Or people of "The Man" don't like hearing others opinions. Guess since I don't believe the same thing, I'm not invited.


Since the topic is "Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials" and by your comments you would not seem to consider yourself a member of the Body of Christ, then yeah, your comments aren't really pertinent to the thread.

Ah so this is a Christian only no outside opinions thread, typical.


Not at all. Start another thread and I would love to talk about any aspect of religion or Christianity you want to discuss.

Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamabucks14] #1023362
07/24/14 03:18 PM
07/24/14 03:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,377
Marshall County
FurFlyin Offline
Freak of Nature
FurFlyin  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,377
Marshall County
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Originally Posted By: wmd
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Sorry apparently free conversation is taking the authenticity of this thread away. Or people of "The Man" don't like hearing others opinions. Guess since I don't believe the same thing, I'm not invited.


Since the topic is "Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials" and by your comments you would not seem to consider yourself a member of the Body of Christ, then yeah, your comments aren't really pertinent to the thread.

Ah so this is a Christian only no outside opinions thread, typical.


I don't consider it to be that, but I do understand the desire to keep the posts relate to the thread title. If we as Christians are to try and live our lives as close to Christlike as possible then non believers are exactly the ones we should be talking with.


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: straycat] #1023365
07/24/14 03:19 PM
07/24/14 03:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Bamabucks14 Offline
12 point
Bamabucks14  Offline
12 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you." Think about that.


"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamabucks14] #1023374
07/24/14 03:23 PM
07/24/14 03:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,669
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
wmd  Offline
10 point
W
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Posts: 4,669
Madison, AL
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Originally Posted By: wmd
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Sorry apparently free conversation is taking the authenticity of this thread away. Or people of "The Man" don't like hearing others opinions. Guess since I don't believe the same thing, I'm not invited.


Since the topic is "Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials" and by your comments you would not seem to consider yourself a member of the Body of Christ, then yeah, your comments aren't really pertinent to the thread.

Ah so this is a Christian only no outside opinions thread, typical.


It is a Christian Essentials thread, not a topic started to debate the validity of the Christian Faith.

Start a thread on the latter and let folks debate it with you, if you truly have an open mind for debate, and not some preconceived notion or biases based on your upbringing.


"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: straycat] #1023376
07/24/14 03:24 PM
07/24/14 03:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Bamabucks14 Offline
12 point
Bamabucks14  Offline
12 point
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Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Ok.


"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamarich2] #1023389
07/24/14 03:33 PM
07/24/14 03:33 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
R
R_H_Clark Offline
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R_H_Clark  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bamarich2
Originally Posted By: h2obuck
Originally Posted By: Bamarich2

However, my salvation also comes from my obedience to His word.


If salvation ALSO comes from obedience then it is not by grace. The good news of the gospel is that Jesus has kept the law for us so our right standing before God is dependent on what Jesus has done instead of what I do. The gospel is the opposite of your statement....instead the gospel says that my obedience comes from my salvation. As I receive God's grace and trust completely in what Jesus has done for me then I am able to extend His grace, forgiveness, compassion, etc. to others.

http://adam4d.com/done/


This is the major issue with people understanding "grace" in today's world. According to Genesis 6:8, Noah obtained "grace" in the eyes of God. Did that then mean he was saved without obedience? Could Noah have been saved without God acting first? No... God gave him a plan to follow... and he followed it. Did the fact Noah obeyed nullify his being saved by grace? Absolutely not!

In instituting the law of Moses, God provided information to the COI which would preserve their life - things relate to hygiene, diet, etc. God was of indebted to do so, thus that law came into being because God chose them - by His grace. Yet, the law did the COI no good unless they obeyed it.

Ephesians 2:8 claims that in the New Testament, people are saved by God's grace through faith. A faith pleasing to God, biblically speaking, is a trust in God which compels a person to comply with His requests - that's the illustration repeatedly emphasized in Hebrews 11.

For those of you who claim "obedience cancels out grace", then what you are really claiming is that everyone will be saved. Why? Because even belief in Christ is something a person does - in response to a passage like John 3:16. You cannot harmonize passages such as 1 Peter 1:22 or Ephesians 2:8 with the "grace only" idea.


We don't know much about Noah but I think he was saved the same way Abraham was. The scripture says Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. Abraham's obedience "circumcision" was a seal of the faith he had in God."Rom.4"

Rom. 3:20 tells you that by your deeds no man is justified in the sight of God.

I never said "obedience cancels out grace" nor did I say that "Grace cancels out obedience" Obedience is the result of grace. What's so unfortunate is that many in the church world think Grace is the result of obedience. Actually it is but it's the result of Christ's obedience and not of ours.

Grace isn't a way to sin and get away with it. Anyone thinking like that just needs to get saved. Sin however does not cancel out the grace of God, indeed Paul says that where sin did abound, grace did much more abound.

When you understand God's grace and what it has done for you it takes your focus off yourself and puts it on God and his grace and goodness. Paul said how can we continue in sin when we are dead to sin. It's the knowledge of grace that teaches you that you are dead to sin and it's that knowledge that changes your behavior.

Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: Bamabucks14] #1023489
07/24/14 04:21 PM
07/24/14 04:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 280
elmore county
H
h2obuck Offline
4 point
h2obuck  Offline
4 point
H
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 280
elmore county
Originally Posted By: Bamabucks14
Very few of the people in this thread studied Anthropology. On a literature standpoint, read the story of Gilgamesh and countless others. Jesus Christ's story was not an original. I am a believer in a higher power, but when Christ's story copies so many it's hard to think he is All and Everything. As a smart man in Thomas Paine said in Common Sense, published Jan. 10th 1776, " My mind is my own church."


The story of Jesus is very much original. I know it is standard skeptic fare to throw out the "copy of other myths" line. That has become fairly commonplace since the "Zeitgeist" movie was released. However, if you look at all the myths that were supposedly copied to make up the story of Jesus you'll find that the similarities are few to none.

Re: Unity in the Body of Christ: Christian Essentials [Re: R_H_Clark] #1023521
07/24/14 04:37 PM
07/24/14 04:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,496
Northport
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Bamarich2 Offline
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Northport
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
Realize what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-20 is vital - we do not have the authority to relax anything which is found in the NT.

It certainly is but you have failed to understand it. Jesus fulfilled the law. He is the only man to ever have done so. It is by his fulfillment of the law that you are saved, not by your own. If you fail to understand that , then you are still living under the old covenant which has grown old and is ready to pass away. Under that old covenant, you will be judged by your acts and there is no person who can satisfy those requirements. If righteousness came by the law, than Christ has died in vain.

You must understand that you are saved by grace alone, not your obedience, or you have missed the entire New Testament. It is an understanding of grace and who you are because of it that will cause you to obey God's laws. It is not your obedience of laws that cause you to be saved.


Understand completely about Matthew 5:17 ff... my point there was that EVERY word in the bible is important - not just some. Whether then or now, Jesus doesn't endorse relaxing anything found in God's word.

As you claim I must understand that I am saved by grace alone, you cannot harmonize this statement with 1 Peter 1:21 or even Ephesians 2:8. God chooses to save when man responds to His offer of grace. The demons understand this system of grace, but they fail to respond accordingly (James 2:19). Regarding your citation of Romans 4:3, you can find the exact opposite idea in James 2:21. In that same passage, we learn that Abraham wouldn't have been justified had he not obeyed the Lord. One of the cardinal rules about drawing any conclusions about a biblical topic is to examine everything the NT says about a subject... James' text supplements that of Paul's here.

I do have a question for you though... at what point is a person saved? Is there anything he/she must do in order to be saved initially?

Last edited by Bamarich2; 07/24/14 04:38 PM.
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