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Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. #100914
03/01/11 09:11 PM
03/01/11 09:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline OP
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Holly Pond, AL
Everyone

Please use this thread to ask forestry and wildlife management questions to our team. We offer a full line of services in these fields. Whether it is about food plots, timber, wildlife or recreational property development please take advantage of our 200+ years combined experience. We can answer any of your questions here.

We encourage everyone including other consultants to join in on any discussion.

Thanks,
The Soterra and Trophy Class Outfitters Team

Last edited by NightHunter; 03/01/11 09:35 PM.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #101249
03/02/11 03:18 PM
03/02/11 03:18 PM
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Montgomery
bamaeyedoc Offline
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I'm clearing some timber on about 40 acres of my land. They should be finished next week. When is the time to go back and spray, burn, and plant?

Dr. B

Also, are you aware of any government subsidized programs that could assist with the costs of replanting?


AKA: “Dr. B”
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Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #101370
03/02/11 08:15 PM
03/02/11 08:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
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Originally Posted By: NightHunter

We encourage everyone including other consultants to join in on any discussion.


Hey, Thanks, never had a real invite before shocked grin

Quote:
I'm clearing some timber on about 40 acres of my land. They should be finished next week. When is the time to go back and spray, burn, and plant?

Dr. B

Also, are you aware of any government subsidized programs that could assist with the costs of replanting?


If they are finished by next week, you should be able to spray this fall, burn a month or so after and plant this winter. Plenty of time.

There are a couple gov't programs to assist in planting longleaf pine - contact the NRCS - if in Montgomery Co:
April Jones
NRCS
District Conservationist
(334) 223-7257
There is also a state program and you can contact
Tracy George
Dept of Cons
334-353-0503

Most of these will cost share up to 75% of the establishment costs. There is only one program for loblolly (that I know of) and it is a "low density" planting administered through NRCS. If I am planting loblolly, I would rather plant it heavier than they will allow. If I want low density, I go with longleaf.

This is an excellent resource:
http://www.forestry.state.al.us/CostSharePrograms.aspx?bv=2&s=2


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: gobbler] #101380
03/02/11 08:26 PM
03/02/11 08:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline OP
10 point
NightHunter  Offline OP
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Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
Originally Posted By: gobbler
Originally Posted By: NightHunter

We encourage everyone including other consultants to join in on any discussion.


Hey, Thanks, never had a real invite before shocked grin

Quote:
I'm clearing some timber on about 40 acres of my land. They should be finished next week. When is the time to go back and spray, burn, and plant?

Dr. B

Also, are you aware of any government subsidized programs that could assist with the costs of replanting?


If they are finished by next week, you should be able to spray this fall, burn a month or so after and plant this winter. Plenty of time.

There are a couple gov't programs to assist in planting longleaf pine - contact the NRCS - if in Montgomery Co:
April Jones
NRCS
District Conservationist
(334) 223-7257
There is also a state program and you can contact
Tracy George
Dept of Cons
334-353-0503

Most of these will cost share up to 75% of the establishment costs. There is only one program for loblolly (that I know of) and it is a "low density" planting administered through NRCS. If I am planting loblolly, I would rather plant it heavier than they will allow. If I want low density, I go with longleaf.

This is an excellent resource:
http://www.forestry.state.al.us/CostSharePrograms.aspx?bv=2&s=2


Yeah, what he said.

Hey Gobbler-

Do you know someone I could get to haul rock to our tract in Equality for a reasonable price?

Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #101413
03/02/11 09:07 PM
03/02/11 09:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
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We've used Froggy Bottom a few times and they were pretty reasonable and pretty local!
thumbup


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #101585
03/03/11 01:19 PM
03/03/11 01:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline OP
10 point
NightHunter  Offline OP
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Holly Pond, AL
Did a little burning yesterday. Hope to have some pics. up soon. Our turkeys are going to be happy!

Last edited by NightHunter; 03/04/11 11:10 AM.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #101763
03/03/11 08:54 PM
03/03/11 08:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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>>>We can answer any of your questions here.<<<

Great! Please give me a herbicide program for growing chufa in fields that have been in almost constant cultivation since 1821. smile

Be careful with that burning; I just found a dead tree across the road and it was still on fire from a prescribed burn 10 days ago.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #101981
03/04/11 11:07 AM
03/04/11 11:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline OP
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NightHunter  Offline OP
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Holly Pond, AL
Need a little more info. You having a grass or broadleaf problem? You wanting to spray pre-emergent or post?

Not growing well? Poor soil? Details man, details wink

Last edited by NightHunter; 03/04/11 11:08 AM.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #102120
03/04/11 05:47 PM
03/04/11 05:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 80
South Carolina
T
turfgrass Offline
spike
turfgrass  Offline
spike
T
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South Carolina
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher

Great! Please give me a herbicide program for growing chufa in fields that have been in almost constant cultivation since 1821. smile


not very difficult, you're cultivating one of the world's worst weeds.

a couple preemergence options: trifluralin or pendimethalin + atrazine *just not metolachlor*

postemergence mainstays: sethoxydim or clethodim for grassy weeds, 2,4-D, dicamba, carfentrazone for broadleaves

you can cure pretty much whatever ails your chufa with what I've listed...obviously aside from pH, nutrient and soil moisture issues....or pigs.

Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #102193
03/04/11 08:57 PM
03/04/11 08:57 PM
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Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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>>>Need a little more info. You having a grass or broadleaf problem? You wanting to spray pre-emergent or post?<<<

You gotta spray pre and post if you want to make anything in these fields; 190 years of cultivation means there is a seed bank that includes every weed in central AL. I find something that controls one, and a new one takes over. And we've been growing chufa in these fields since the late 60s; try to rotate the fields, but I don't have enough good chufa land for rotation to be a real solution.

Turfgrass, those are good recommendations, and I've tried every herbicide you've listed except atrazine. My experience is that regular 2,4-D will kill the chufas dead, even at a low dosage. 2,4-DB is safe for the chufa, but it does a very poor job of controlling sicklepod, which is my worst weed of all.

I've gotten poor results from both Treflan and Prowl, and Aim will control carpetweed only by repeat applications. The best overall control I've gotten was with Command. I've used it as the pre for the last 2 years and made a bumper crop in 09. I had almost a total failure last year due to the drought, but I didn't help them any by mixing Cotoran with the Command to try to control the sicklepod. The chufas were damaged pretty bad by the Cotoran, though I still would have made a good crop if it had rained.

Atrazine would probably do a good job with the sicklepod, but it is listed as controlling yellow nutsedge too, which means it will kill chufa. Have you ever used it on chufa? I had a chemical co rep to tell me to try Atrazine, but he admitted he had never actually done it himself. I'd be very interested in hearing about the results if anyone has used it. I'd also be very interested in hearing about anyone who successfully used 2,4-D without damage to the chufas.

Unless somebody can give me a better plan, I'm gonna use Command again as the pre and follow up with repeat applications of 2,4-DB post. I may add Prowl to the Command to try to control the carpetweed. This combo will not produce a weed-free field, but it will make a crop better than anything else I've tried.

Many thanks for any help.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #102218
03/04/11 09:43 PM
03/04/11 09:43 PM
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Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline OP
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Yeah, that pretty much covers it. The only other thing I would try would be a wick boom applicator and round-up if your weed species are taller than your chufas. You are in a pretty togh spot but turfgrass mentioned the best chemical apps. you have readily available.

Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #102221
03/04/11 09:48 PM
03/04/11 09:48 PM
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auburn
007 Offline
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PCP - try about 0.5 oz/A of Escort. It should give you good control of most of your broadleaf weeds, particularly if you add it to the 2,4-DB. I know it does not have much, if any, nutsedge activity, so should be okay on your chufa. Test a small patch first. Weed control information in the food plot arena is sorely lacking. I have been trying to drum up some research monies to do some of this type work but it just isn't there.


If you do the things you need to do when you need to do them then someday you can do the things you want to do when you want to do them.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #102307
03/05/11 07:56 AM
03/05/11 07:56 AM
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Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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Thanks for the ideas. I don't have a wick boom applicator, but I do have a bush hog and have resorted to using it to give the sicklepod a haircut on occasion. Not ideal, but once it gets taller than the chufa you gotta try something. I've also tried spraying the sicklepod with gly using a hand sprayer on isolated patches. That kills it, but it usually drips down onto the chufa and kills them too.

007, I'll give the Escort a try. And I wish you the best on getting those research dollars. Why don't you just develop a RR chufa and get rich? I'll finance the project, as long as it doesn't cost over $500 or so. wink


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #102323
03/05/11 08:45 AM
03/05/11 08:45 AM
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auburn
007 Offline
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Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Why don't you just develop a RR chufa and get rich? I'll finance the project, as long as it doesn't cost over $500 or so. wink


Interestingly, nutsedge isn't really controlled by glyphosate very well. It usually just will yellow it up but it comes back strong. You might even be able to spray 5-7 fl. oz/A over the top and hurt the weeds but not so much the chufa. Just an idea, I wouldn't try it on too big of a spot until I saw how they reacted. I have also seen research that showed low rates will stimulate growth on some plant species. Again, be careful if you try it.


If you do the things you need to do when you need to do them then someday you can do the things you want to do when you want to do them.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #102360
03/05/11 10:41 AM
03/05/11 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Thanks for the ideas. I don't have a wick boom applicator, but I do have a bush hog and have resorted to using it to give the sicklepod a haircut on occasion. Not ideal, but once it gets taller than the chufa you gotta try something. I've also tried spraying the sicklepod with gly using a hand sprayer on isolated patches. That kills it, but it usually drips down onto the chufa and kills them too.

007, I'll give the Escort a try. And I wish you the best on getting those research dollars. Why don't you just develop a RR chufa and get rich? I'll finance the project, as long as it doesn't cost over $500 or so. wink



I have some yellow nutsedge in my chufas, but my greatest battle is with carpet weed. That stuff is hard to control. I've been using Clethodim for grasses and 2,4DB for broadleafs. That combo gets everything but the carpet weed. It insults it, but that's about all!

Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #102609
03/05/11 10:05 PM
03/05/11 10:05 PM
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South Carolina
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turfgrass Offline
spike
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ronfromramer- yellow nutsedge = chufa

pcp- 007 mentioned a great option for you also with metsulfuron...good stuff. Here's a combo I use quite often:
.5 oz metsulfuron + half pint dicamba + 1 oz carfentrazone + NIS = if you have any broadleaf weed escapes, you better start praying.

Also, if nutsedge could be controlled with 2,4-D amine or atrazine...it wouldn't be one of the world's worst weeds. I wish I could control it with 2,4-D or atrazine for $2.50/A. I've never seen any nutsedge control out of either.

There are plenty of broadleaf brews you can concoct with atrazine, 2,4-D, dicamba, carfentrazone or metsulfuron that will do what you're looking for.

good luck
p.s.- fwiw, my perspective is one of trying to kill nutsedge 6-8 mths out of every year...not grow it.

Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #103178
03/07/11 07:39 AM
03/07/11 07:39 AM
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Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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Thanks for the additional ideas, guys. 007, I've read that yellow nutsedge is somewhat resistant to gly, but I think you would have to get the dose just right. At a quart to the acre, it kills the chufas dead, or at least that has been my experience with it. I've got one field where I've had chufa so long that too many volunteers come up each year. This year, I plan to let it come up and then kill it with gly and start over with new seed. The problem with me experimenting with it is that I live too far from the farm. I usually get one chance to hit it with something post before the weeds are out of control.

Turfgrass, that sounds like a broadleaf combo that would work well, and I don't think it would hurt the chufas at those amounts. But I don't understand this:

>>>Also, if nutsedge could be controlled with 2,4-D amine or atrazine...it wouldn't be one of the world's worst weeds. I wish I could control it with 2,4-D or atrazine for $2.50/A. I've never seen any nutsedge control out of either.<<<

Several years ago, I had a small field that was just taken over by sicklepod. It laughed at the 2,4-DB, and it was obvious I wasn't gonna make anything. In desperation, I hit it with a quart of Weedmaster, a mix of 2,4-D and dicamba. It killed the sicklepod, but it also fried the chufas to a crisp. I'm not talking about damage, I'm talking dead, dead, dead.

Years ago my dad used 2,4-D on a big field and killed every chufa in it. After all the work we had done, it made me want to avoid herbicides completely and I tried for several years to grow them without herbicides. I had pretty good luck for a couple of years by planting in rows and plowing them 3 times, but eventually the sicklepod and crabgrass got so bad I had to go back to herbicides.

I know that some folks say yellow nutsedge and chufa are the same plant, but I wonder about that. I know a timber wolf and a poodle are the same species, but they sure look different to me, and chufas sure look different from what I've always called nutgrass. Could it be that chufa is actually much less tolerant of certain herbicides than its wild brethren? I don't know anything else to explain our different experience.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #103191
03/07/11 07:58 AM
03/07/11 07:58 AM
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Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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Even 2,4-DB and Aim will kill chufa if you get too much. I know 007 saw this pic a couple of years ago, but I'll post it again for anyone who wasn't around here then. We got a lot of rain that year, and these plants made a partial recovery, but don't ever doubt that I can kill chufas with broadleaf herbicides. wink


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #103204
03/07/11 08:47 AM
03/07/11 08:47 AM
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South Alabama
gobbler Offline
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Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher

I know that some folks say yellow nutsedge and chufa are the same plant, but I wonder about that. I know a timber wolf and a poodle are the same species, but they sure look different to me, and chufas sure look different from what I've always called nutgrass. Could it be that chufa is actually much less tolerant of certain herbicides than its wild brethren? I don't know anything else to explain our different experience.


That's why I keep looking for your posts! grin

I agree, Chufa may be yellow nutsedge but I have seen them killed over and over in planted fields with chemical prescriptions that wouldn't touch it in a lawn. Kinda like loblolly pine. It is one of the worst weeds we have in longleaf plantations and burning them starting in year 2 only kills a portion of them. However if we had payed to plant them, carrying a lighter near them would kill every one. All depends on whether you want them or not shocked


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here. [Re: NightHunter] #103376
03/07/11 02:47 PM
03/07/11 02:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
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Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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>>>All depends on whether you want them or not<<<

I knew that all along! Good to see a professional confirm it. smile

I also think that who applies it makes a difference too. I need to swap jobs with turfgrass for a week or 2 this summer. I could take a jug of 2,4-D and kill all the nutsedge he has, and then he could take a jug of it and kill all my sicklepod without hurting the chufas a bit. But how are your preaching skills, turfgrass? You gotta handle that part too if we swap. smile

Last edited by poorcountrypreacher; 03/07/11 02:48 PM.

All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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