it was my understanding, at the time this arose. Some of our people listening in (white house staff) to the phone call and started the "leak". Which led to the impeachment. I didn't watch any of the impeachment trial. I never heard Trump indicate that it was Zelensky working against him. I heard Trump say that not only should we be giving UA weapons, we should be giving them more weapons. What did you see that led you to believe Z did T dirty?

These argumentative posts are just continual dribble at this point.

There is no reason to continue to argue why are are involved. We are involved. This is exactly like Mexico becoming Communist. Exactly. We would not stand for that. Then why the double standard when it comes to Russia? And why did the United States start this war with this exact rhetoric. Thanks Kamala.

Hate a Russian all you want.... my question for those here that want to Nuke Moscow is.... how are you going to fix this?

I want to hear what you think we're going to do. If you want to see what Russia is going to do watch the news... They intend to win.

If you can't comprehend how we got to this point.... I'd love to hear how the rest of this is supposed to play itself out.

What does it look like when it's over? Ukraine wins and becomes a member of NATO?

Because Putin is shelling civilians.... let's go Brandon is going to lead us into WWIII? With Miley and his army of Trannies?

How many conflicts have we won recently, again?

this aint like mexico becoming communist and America didn't start this war. Russia started this war when it invaded another country in 2014 and again this year.

The west has been provoking this war for decades by turning Russia's neighbors against them. We almost nuked Cuba when Russia tried the same thing.

I'm not rooting for Russia, but I don't see them loosing this. They are fighting for their existence, we're fighting for the laundromat of the elite. They just have to close a few valves and millions of Europeans freeze to death this winter.

And just what do 2014 and 2022 have in common???????????????????????

I'm pretty sure that hate come from the russian pogroms in UA, and the Holodomor famine and the rape and murder of UA citizens during WW2. Chernobyl probably didn't help much either. Their not fighting for their existence, they're invading another country because of the vast oil and mineral deposits in east UA. The Ukrainian's are the only one's fighting for their existence, we're just supplying the arms. Which is what Russia has done to us in every battle we've fought since the Korean War. Somehow yall overlook all that and blame America for them invading another country on an already long list of countries they've invaded in the last 60 years.

IDK Abolt, what?

When I think about a person who is sitting there thinking it's a good idea to vote for Joe Biden... I think to myself, Self..... how can this exist that someone is so completely mis-informed and blinded by Trump rhetoric to believe.

And then I read this thread.

And it's still not clear how someone can't comprehend basic fact patterns.... but apparently we got them on our side too.


https://www.cato.org/commentary/us-nato-helped-trigger-ukraine-war-its-not-siding-putin-admit-it

says the guy rooting for our enemy and is giddy about the CCCP invading Taiwan.

You call it rooting for our enemy... I call it pointing out the obvious.

I'm still waiting to hear how you plan on ending this conflict...

I just want to make sure we've got it documented for the future.

if you don't mind just jotting that down here I would appreciate it.

And if you want to just go ahead and get on record that we should get into a Nuclear war with China over Taiwan then we can go ahead and pencil that one in while we're here.

you probably need to get a better understanding of history before you delve into something intangible, like the future

Pretty sure we almost nuked cuba cause russia parked some nuclear missiles capable of reaching all the southeast right quick like.

Yep, so how do you think Russia feels about our nukes in Turkey? They also weren't happy about NATO controlling the Bosporus Strait, since we can now block them from the ocean in winter.

Russia is dependent on Ukraine for their food and winter ports. Their society will collapse without a strong influence in Ukraine, and they know this.

The Ukrainians have been fighting with admirable bravery, but they won't be able defeat Russia alone.

Meanwhile in the west, we no longer produce fighting men, and we are actively trying to destroy our means of food and energy production. Is the plan to send a bunch of Mexicans in electric vehicles? The truth is there is no plan. We will just keep dumping weapons into the region and prolonging the war, until we run out of fuel for deliveries.

If you think this war is bad now, just wait until winter comes. Western Europeans do not have the will to die by the millions to keep the war effort going. We are going to loose this war, just like every other war we fight.

While I'm in the Pro-Ukraine side, up to a point, I think both sides can agree on this. We can live in the U.S. without Ukraine's wheat and Russia's fuel. A big part of Europe can't. Bottom line is they need to step up and do more to help Ukraine to save their own asses and quit counting on us to do it for them. redgineer is correct. Winter is going to be tough on a lot of Europe and guess who they will expect to send the fuel and food? I would have no problem with helping them if I saw that they were doing all they could to help themselves right now.

To be perfectly clear, I support sending Ukraine military and humanitarian help, but no cash. I want audits on what we send too so it is clear it is going for the intended purposes.

A guy I worked with for a few years and stayed in touch with. He’s well traveled and well versed, a very interesting and intelligent fellow that would fit in your mtn top group I bet. Did I mention extremely high IQ and not the online kind either.

He worked as an ESL teacher in Ukraine beginning in 2015-16 and met a Ukrainian gal that been there her entire life. They left for China to continue with their ESL teachings just in time for Covid to hit.

He arrived here a few months ago when China began severe lockdowns. He’s a very quick study of things that interest him.

I simply asked him why so many think zelensky as a nazi sympathizer. I posted (cut n paste) his response.
I’m betting he’s well versed in the history of Ukraine, he’s always been an excellent photographer but more so from a journalistic angle. He’s libertarian with a liberal lean maybe. I’ve never asked and he’s never ever talked politics and hated even asking him the question.

We spoke of several of us getting together. I’m betting he has a lot storied to tell since I last saw him.

Yet here you are

Please enlighten who wants to nuke Moscow cause I missed that post. Since you’re documenting this for future reference please quote that post

Just my opinion below, not an expert, just a dork who thinks about this stuff too much.

I think sending weapons just obligates Russia into leveling every city. These half measures are not adequate. If we actually want to stop them, we should send a few hundred thousand NATO troops to push them out of the country. These troops should be European, since it's their mess. Our sons shouldn't be the ones dying.

Once they're pushed out, we offer peace terms to Putin. There will have to be some kind of concession made with Russia. They will want food and to not to be completely isolated from the world for half the year, because they like not being dead. If no deal, then we have a regime change war in Russia. I don't see that ending without a nuclear exchange.

The wrench in the gears of this plan is India. They are allied with Russia, and do not underestimate them. We should be trying to get them on our side by offering to help them with their China problem. Brandon has been sucking Saudi cock instead, and he didn't even get anything.

The main role America should play is massively expanding energy production and SELLING it to Europe. Our weapons should be going to the Pacific, that's where the real war is coming. The war in Ukraine is also going to lead to famine throughout Africa and the Middle East. China will use checkbook diplomacy to conquer these nations if we let them. They have already done it to much of Africa and Latin America.

Just don't overestimate India's alliance with Russia. it is convenient for them up to a point but in the end, if they had to choose between the US and Russia, they would choose the US.

Just imagine being in a bar fight, and the guy you’re fighting has a buddy that keeps handing him beer bottles to hit you with.

If you make it past the first guy, what are you gonna do to guy handing him beer bottles?

...and we will be in a full blown World War if NATO troops go into Ukraine.

Stay out of the bar when you are 30 trillion dollars in debt.