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Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672818
05/18/22 07:28 AM
05/18/22 07:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,574
Michigan
S
Sasquatch Lives Offline
10 point
Sasquatch Lives  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,574
Michigan
As long as Biden is in charge, everything is gonna be f'ed up. I am convinced he is trying to destroy america so they can turn it socialist. VOTE!

Re: Food Shortage... [Re: Remington270] #3672851
05/18/22 08:43 AM
05/18/22 08:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman Offline
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gman  Offline
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34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
Originally Posted by Remington270
We have definitely paid farmers and land owners to plant worthless pine trees in otherwise productive tillable acres. Never made sense to me. But here we are.

Nobody made them plant trees. That was the owner's decision to take the land from rowcrop production (in most cases) and plant a different cover. Some could have been grasses, others required trees. They could have elected to keep the ground in rowcrop production. Nobody twisted their arm.


The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672854
05/18/22 08:46 AM
05/18/22 08:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,876
Shelby Co, AL
CatHeadBiscuit Offline
14 point
CatHeadBiscuit  Offline
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Shelby Co, AL
There won’t be a shortage of food in North America unless we ship it off to other continents.


"Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a crap on the table, and strut around like its victorious."--Anonymous
Re: Food Shortage... [Re: gman] #3672860
05/18/22 08:53 AM
05/18/22 08:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
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BPI Offline
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Posts: 9,419
Originally Posted by gman
Originally Posted by Remington270
We have definitely paid farmers and land owners to plant worthless pine trees in otherwise productive tillable acres. Never made sense to me. But here we are.

Nobody made them plant trees. That was the owner's decision to take the land from rowcrop production (in most cases) and plant a different cover. Some could have been grasses, others required trees. They could have elected to keep the ground in rowcrop production. Nobody twisted their arm.


It's not all that difficult to destump a pine forest with the right equipment. I've been seeing some of the pine forests turned back into cultivation around where I live in the last few years. Possibly because it makes more money to farm conventional crops than trees lately. It's all about what produces the $$$$

Re: Food Shortage... [Re: gman] #3672865
05/18/22 09:03 AM
05/18/22 09:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,604
lat 34.09 long -86.13
metalmuncher Offline
Old Mossy Horns
metalmuncher  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,604
lat 34.09 long -86.13
Originally Posted by gman
Originally Posted by Remington270
We have definitely paid farmers and land owners to plant worthless pine trees in otherwise productive tillable acres. Never made sense to me. But here we are.

Nobody made them plant trees. That was the owner's decision to take the land from rowcrop production (in most cases) and plant a different cover. Some could have been grasses, others required trees. They could have elected to keep the ground in rowcrop production. Nobody twisted their arm.


He didn't say anyone made them do it. He said that they PAID them to. Is that a fact or not? I'm not a farmer or a forester so I'm asking a serious question. Were they paid by the USDA or some other government agency to plant pines instead of row crops?

And what about CRP land? Have they been paid to let fertile ground sit idle?

Re: Food Shortage... [Re: metalmuncher] #3672883
05/18/22 09:38 AM
05/18/22 09:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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poorcountrypreacher  Offline
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Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted by metalmuncher
Originally Posted by gman
Originally Posted by Remington270
We have definitely paid farmers and land owners to plant worthless pine trees in otherwise productive tillable acres. Never made sense to me. But here we are.

Nobody made them plant trees. That was the owner's decision to take the land from rowcrop production (in most cases) and plant a different cover. Some could have been grasses, others required trees. They could have elected to keep the ground in rowcrop production. Nobody twisted their arm.


He didn't say anyone made them do it. He said that they PAID them to. Is that a fact or not? I'm not a farmer or a forester so I'm asking a serious question. Were they paid by the USDA or some other government agency to plant pines instead of row crops?

And what about CRP land? Have they been paid to let fertile ground sit idle?



There's been all sorts of programs through the decades to pay landowners to convert row crop land to something else. The CRP paid landowners an amount per acre per year to not plant row crops. That's a different program from the ones that reimbursed landowners for planting pine trees. I don't think any of those programs are still paying for planting loblolly pine, but there are several that will pay for longleaf. I hate to see good fields that I worked in as a boy now growing loblolly pine, but it was the landowner choice to do it. I don't know if they would have without the government incentive.

I don't know if any crops have been ordered plowed under in recent years, but it happened some long ago and the stories remain. Most of the time it involved a farmer having an "allotment" of a certain number of acres for growing a specific crop. The government would pay the farmer up front to plant his allotment, and if he exceeded it, the extra had to be plowed under. People got mad about the waste, but it was due to the farmer breaking his contract. It seems like I remember other programs that required crops to be plowed under, but I can't remember the specifics.

I remember a case that we studied in one of my classes at Auburn in the 70s regarding a farmer with a wheat allocation. He greatly exceeded his allotment, but refused to plow it under because he wasn't going to sell the wheat, he was going to feed it to chickens. The government wouldn't buy that, and they went to court, and the farmer lost. He was so mad that he sold his farm and moved to Australia.

Farm programs have always been very political and I don't think they have benefitted the nation the way they were intended. They were justified on the idea of protecting our food supply. I wonder how safe it is going to be going forward.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672884
05/18/22 09:38 AM
05/18/22 09:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
B
BPI Offline
14 point
BPI  Offline
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Posts: 9,419
The cost of 100 % of planting was paid to me by the FSA for taking in row crop with longleaf. I think they offered 50% for loblolly. Then I get a payment every year for the trees for a 10 year agreement ( I'm on my last year) , then I can do whatever I like with em.. So yeah they paid for people to take in cultivation for several years. Not sure if that program is still going.

Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672885
05/18/22 09:44 AM
05/18/22 09:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,840
AL
H
hunterbuck Offline
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H
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Posts: 13,840
AL
There is a farmer here that is buying timberland left and right, and converting it to farmland as quickly as he can.

Hundreds of acres up north of the prison in Atmore and throughout the Huxford/McCullough community in the last 4-5 years...all the same farmer.


"You think I care? Roll Damn Tide"

Have you tried Google?
Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672886
05/18/22 09:47 AM
05/18/22 09:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,717
Selma
odocoileus Offline
14 point
odocoileus  Offline
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Posts: 6,717
Selma
Have seen a bunch of hedgerows and random patches of trees in ag fields being cleared up and burned. Must be something to it if they're willing to spend the money on moving in equipment and fuel to run them.

Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672887
05/18/22 09:50 AM
05/18/22 09:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,604
lat 34.09 long -86.13
metalmuncher Offline
Old Mossy Horns
metalmuncher  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,604
lat 34.09 long -86.13
Thanks PCP and BPI. The air is much clearer now.

Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672892
05/18/22 09:55 AM
05/18/22 09:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
B
BPI Offline
14 point
BPI  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
Good thing about forested farmland is it can be turned bank into farmland. Heck it was all tress 300 years ago

Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672895
05/18/22 10:03 AM
05/18/22 10:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman Offline
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gman  Offline
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Posts: 11,971
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
Yep, PCP and BPI are spot on. My point was, no one made the landowner plant the trees. It was their decision. The crp was designed to remove active ag land from production to set aside so we'd have farmland in the future (but also conserve the land and benefit wildlife). And to slow urban sprawl. It was designed more for the midwest where it went into grasses. Had something to do with erodibility indexes here in the south and having to plant trees. Being in NA, i didn't realize there were differing cost share rates for long leaf than loblolly.


The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672899
05/18/22 10:10 AM
05/18/22 10:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
B
BPI Offline
14 point
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Posts: 9,419
In hindsight I wished I had payed the extra and planted Loblollies. Fertile ground that was in cultivation makes it really hard to manage the competition for the first 3 or 4 years. It takes forever for those things to get 4 foot tall. This is a problem when a briar patch can grow that high in 4 months. And going into it with no experience and relying on my local office for advice was not beneficial to the trees at all. I was advised to allow the native habitat grasses to do their thing for a couple of years and by the time they did there thing a bunch of trees got choked out. Had I bush hogged the rows like I wanted to ( and eliminated the planted grasses for wildlife which stood no chance from the beginning) , I'd have a LOT more tress. If you grow longleaf on a mountain or chirt pit they will take off. On farmland not so much. Didn't mean to side track but thought someone might be saved the trouble i went through.

Last edited by BPI; 05/18/22 10:12 AM.
Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3672903
05/18/22 10:14 AM
05/18/22 10:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman Offline
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gman  Offline
Booner
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
And it was the market and quota program that had the allotments and stuff. Yes, crops had to be destroyed sometimes in the field. But the producers were not paid to do it. They were allotted so many acres or so much production to sell (attempting to keep prices around a target price) and if they planted too much, it had to be destroyed. That was the farm program in effect right before i came to work with usda. We then went to an acreage reduction program (except for peanuts...they stayed on a quota program). With arp, you had a historical average of crops on a farm...say 100ac of corn. The pencil necks in dc would decide how much needed planted across the country to maintain supplies and keep the price at a steady point. They would then set a "set aside" rate. I remember it being as little as 2.5% and one year we had a set aside rate for cotton of 25%. So if you had 100ac of base (history), you could only plant 75ac and the other 25 had to be "set aside" with an approved cover on it. You weren't paid on the 25ac and you didn't have to participate in the program and could plant what you wanted...but then you weren't eligible for any possible subsidies. And from what i remember of the 80's, the markets were pretty volatile.


The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3673052
05/18/22 02:45 PM
05/18/22 02:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,648
Trussville Alabama
inatree Offline
14 point
inatree  Offline
14 point
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Posts: 6,648
Trussville Alabama
With the drought going on out in the west end mid west wheat is going to hurt , then some area's arre way to wet the plant. People who have not seen hard times better get ready. I've lived through one depression and it wasn't fun. People make fun of me for always having extra items put up , but once you survive one you'll always be on gaurd


Free men aren't equal and equal men aren't free! I choose to defend my freedom!
Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3673065
05/18/22 03:11 PM
05/18/22 03:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,111
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
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Posts: 9,111
B'ham



First off - Trees are a terrible investment. Some of y'all need to come to grips with that.

Not all ground is suitable for row crop farming. There is certainly a large place in this overall picture for tree production.

If you are a farmer you need tillable acres. If you are going to get geared up to plant 24+ rows in a single pass across the field you need a lot of tillable acres to turn a profit as everything is on scale including equipment and input costs relative to profit margins.

Since trees are a TERRIBLE investment if you have a farmer willing to clear your ground you have a decision to make. IMO an easy decision.


No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: Food Shortage... [Re: GmeHunter] #3673117
05/18/22 04:17 PM
05/18/22 04:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
B
BPI Offline
14 point
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Posts: 9,419
I planted tress for deer habitat , which is exactly what I wanted to do. And the purpose of the program ( as explained to me from the FSA ) is soil conservation / erosion control. Do some research on midwestern topsoil depletion and it might make sense.

Re: Food Shortage... [Re: CatHeadBiscuit] #3673120
05/18/22 04:22 PM
05/18/22 04:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,979
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,979
USA
Originally Posted by CatHeadBiscuit
There won’t be a shortage of food in North America unless we ship it off to other continents.

I can promise you this Coonass ain’t gonna go hungry. Plenty of groceries in God’s giant grocery store around me. Plus us Coonasses will try to cook just about anything in a sauce picante once!! rofl


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Food Shortage... [Re: marshmud991] #3673126
05/18/22 04:39 PM
05/18/22 04:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
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BPI Offline
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BPI  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2013
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Originally Posted by marshmud991
Originally Posted by CatHeadBiscuit
There won’t be a shortage of food in North America unless we ship it off to other continents.

I can promise you this Coonass ain’t gonna go hungry. Plenty of groceries in God’s giant grocery store around me. Plus us Coonasses will try to cook just about anything in a sauce picante once!! rofl


After I saw that skillet beef tongue i don't doubt it one bit

Re: Food Shortage... [Re: BPI] #3673127
05/18/22 04:41 PM
05/18/22 04:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,979
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,979
USA
Originally Posted by BPI
Originally Posted by marshmud991
Originally Posted by CatHeadBiscuit
There won’t be a shortage of food in North America unless we ship it off to other continents.

I can promise you this Coonass ain’t gonna go hungry. Plenty of groceries in God’s giant grocery store around me. Plus us Coonasses will try to cook just about anything in a sauce picante once!! rofl


After I saw that skillet beef tongue i don't doubt it one bit

rofl
It really is an amazing thing to eat. That was actually a big cast iron pot. It looked a lot better once it was sliced and not all curled up.


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


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