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Re: reducing harvest [Re: gobbler] #3670821
05/14/22 10:49 AM
05/14/22 10:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,862
sj22 Online content
14 point
sj22  Online Content
14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,862



Question about the spraying in pine stands, my buddy said they sprayed at there club first of turkey season and put out signs that said stay out for 2 weeks, is that a safety issue that what they spray isn’t good for humans? If so then how does it affect wildlife?



Re: reducing harvest [Re: sj22] #3670835
05/14/22 11:30 AM
05/14/22 11:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
turkey247 Online content
10 point
turkey247  Online Content
10 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
Originally Posted by sj22



Question about the spraying in pine stands, my buddy said they sprayed at there club first of turkey season and put out signs that said stay out for 2 weeks, is that a safety issue that what they spray isn’t good for humans? If so then how does it affect wildlife?


Extreme safety precaution due to our society today. Most REI’s are only 48 hours, not two weeks. The LD50 of forestry herbicides are less than the LD50 of baking soda. I’m not saying bake cookies with it, though, but that’s a good comparison.

Re: reducing harvest [Re: gobbler] #3670844
05/14/22 12:00 PM
05/14/22 12:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 256
Hardwoods
B
Bankheadhunter Offline
4 point
Bankheadhunter  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 256
Hardwoods
Kill some predators and do away with the baiting. The state DCNR loves money not wildlife so good luck.

Re: reducing harvest [Re: turkey247] #3670850
05/14/22 12:29 PM
05/14/22 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,862
sj22 Online content
14 point
sj22  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,862
Originally Posted by turkey247
Originally Posted by sj22



Question about the spraying in pine stands, my buddy said they sprayed at there club first of turkey season and put out signs that said stay out for 2 weeks, is that a safety issue that what they spray isn’t good for humans? If so then how does it affect wildlife?


Extreme safety precaution due to our society today. Most REI’s are only 48 hours, not two weeks. The LD50 of forestry herbicides are less than the LD50 of baking soda. I’m not saying bake cookies with it, though, but that’s a good comparison.

Gotcha



Re: reducing harvest [Re: teamduckdown] #3670901
05/14/22 02:40 PM
05/14/22 02:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,174
South Alabama
gobbler Offline OP
12 point
gobbler  Offline OP
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,174
South Alabama
Originally Posted by teamduckdown
Originally Posted by turkey247

The number 1 goal he had in that video (and everybody who likes to blame logging), is to blame “new” timber harvesting practices. While doing so, he openly admitted two things that have been true for years. Turkey are extremely adaptable and can live in many various habitats. And predator control is the number one thing to help turkey. Plus - nobody complained about turkey numbers in the 90’s and 2000’s - and most clear-cut conversions had already taken place by that “new” strategy.

It is fun to watch guys talk in a circle, though.


Logging isnt the problem. Clear-cuts aren't the problem. Timber Management Practices are the problem. It's the spraying after the clear cutting has taken place that causes the initial problems. You can defend it til you're blue in the face. We get it. It's your industry. But the fact that you mention circles is funny, because the problem is indeed cyclical. And yes, these practices started being implemented in the late 90s, and early 2000s, but it wasn't until the mid to late 2000s that I would consider them widely adopted. With the percentage of landowners and timber management companies increasing yearly until we were at a point in the mid 2010s when it reached a high adoption rate (probably 85% or higher now with the exception of a few private land owners who manage for wildlife or are too old school to change their ways). It takes time to see a decline. As this new strategy wasn't implemented over night, neither is the decline of the wild turkey. You act like 20 years in the big scheme of things is a long time, when it just simply isn't. Turkeys are adaptive, and your correct, they can live in many different forms of terra. BUT, they cannot live where there isn't any food.



I would agree this is a significant contribution to the problem. Also "mid rotation" herbicide with a helicopter and arsenal. And while the intense application of herbicide mixes can be damaging both short and long term, it is just as bad to have these clearcuts in the multi hundreds of acres. Not only timber companies, timber REITS, trusts but also landowners that manage specifically for timber income. We are blessed to work with the "few private land owners who manage for wildlife or are too old school to change their ways". While we use many of the same herbicides to site prep and plant, we also tend to use less intensive rates and manage on smaller stand size specifically because of wildlife considerations. We do "mid rotation" woody control in pine stands but we also use targeted application with hand crews and lower rates of herbicide - protecting mast producing hardwoods in the mid story and throughout pine stands. We don't use herbicides in the place of fire, etc... Ive always said stand size is a massive factor in wildlife management. Partridge pea is an excellent quail plant but 300 acres is a biological desert, soybeans or clover is excellent for deer but 300 acres is unusable for deer, Bottomland hardwood is great habitat for turkeys but 300 aces is usually devoid of turkeys for part of the year, pine plantations in various ages and management classes can be excellent wildlife habitat but 300 acres in one block is not ideal either, I love burning but a 300 ace burn is not used effectively for deer and turkeys until well greened up and only a small portion would be used for quail -in fact it is a death trap for quail to burn that much in one block..

Last edited by gobbler; 05/14/22 02:44 PM.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: reducing harvest [Re: gobbler] #3670978
05/14/22 04:49 PM
05/14/22 04:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
turkey247 Online content
10 point
turkey247  Online Content
10 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
Our average CC size is 90 acres.

The average CC size statewide is less than that.

MRWR is done on select thinned stands, probably 1/3 or less of thinned stands per year. Some companies never do it. That’s a tiny fraction of acres.

There’s been a huge awareness of rates of herbicide at the industry level. The industry is good at opex.

Banded herbaceous control in the Spring is very popular today. That means about 20% of a CC area is actually sprayed. Inbetween the rows are not sprayed. The wildlife guys approve.

Re: reducing harvest [Re: turkey247] #3671197
05/15/22 05:10 AM
05/15/22 05:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,872
Spanish Fort
teamduckdown Offline
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teamduckdown  Offline
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Posts: 3,872
Spanish Fort
Originally Posted by turkey247
Our average CC size is 90 acres.


Yeah, that may be the average but when that 90 acres butts up to 110 acres on the north side, 2 80 acre tracts on the east and west side and a 120 acre tract on the south that have all been cut within the last 5 years, and managed the same way, the void left is huge.


Turkeys be damned.
Re: reducing harvest [Re: gobbler] #3671198
05/15/22 05:12 AM
05/15/22 05:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,872
Spanish Fort
teamduckdown Offline
10 point
teamduckdown  Offline
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Posts: 3,872
Spanish Fort
I'll say this, whatever Scotch is doing... works. It may not be the absolute best way to be the most profitable, or the absolute best way to manage for the game. But all of their properties seem to have decent to good turkey numbers. Even when in areas that surrounding properties dont have the same result.


Turkeys be damned.
Re: reducing harvest [Re: gobbler] #3671317
05/15/22 10:24 AM
05/15/22 10:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,121
Georgia and Missouri
Semo Online content
12 point
Semo  Online Content
12 point
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,121
Georgia and Missouri
One thing this thread shows is when you work in a particular field the koolaid is strong. Whether it is DNR, timber, Ag, or academia it doesnt seem to matter. Just human nature I suppose.

And you cant convince me otherwise! slap

Re: reducing harvest [Re: Semo] #3671438
05/15/22 05:04 PM
05/15/22 05:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
turkey247 Online content
10 point
turkey247  Online Content
10 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
Originally Posted by Semo
One thing this thread shows is when you work in a particular field the koolaid is strong. Whether it is DNR, timber, Ag, or academia it doesnt seem to matter. Just human nature I suppose.

And you cant convince me otherwise! slap


The timber industry is the #1 job producer in the state (unless auto has edged it out recently). You got to live with it. Turkey figured out how. It’s time for hunters to do the same. Some of the best (most of the best) turkey producing counties are heavy timber producing counties - top of the list counties. Landowners who are committed to keeping land “wild”, whether they grow and produce timber or not - are turkeys best friends. I don’t like kool-aid. And facts don’t care about your feelings, or mine grin

Re: reducing harvest [Re: gobbler] #3671471
05/15/22 06:08 PM
05/15/22 06:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,309
Kennedy, al
G
globe Online content
Booner
globe  Online Content
Booner
G
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,309
Kennedy, al
If three bucks is plenty for the deer hunters , then surely three birds is enough. There is no where near as many gobblers as bucks. Hmmm


Everything woke turns to shucks
Re: reducing harvest [Re: Semo] #3671487
05/15/22 06:34 PM
05/15/22 06:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,535
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,535
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by Semo
One thing this thread shows is when you work in a particular field the koolaid is strong. Whether it is DNR, timber, Ag, or academia it doesnt seem to matter. Just human nature I suppose.


Heck, I just mix up my own flavor. rofl


The Corn Crash!!!
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