Question about the spraying in pine stands, my buddy said they sprayed at there club first of turkey season and put out signs that said stay out for 2 weeks, is that a safety issue that what they spray isn’t good for humans? If so then how does it affect wildlife?

Extreme safety precaution due to our society today. Most REI’s are only 48 hours, not two weeks. The LD50 of forestry herbicides are less than the LD50 of baking soda. I’m not saying bake cookies with it, though, but that’s a good comparison.

Kill some predators and do away with the baiting. The state DCNR loves money not wildlife so good luck.

Gotcha

I would agree this is a significant contribution to the problem. Also "mid rotation" herbicide with a helicopter and arsenal. And while the intense application of herbicide mixes can be damaging both short and long term, it is just as bad to have these clearcuts in the multi hundreds of acres. Not only timber companies, timber REITS, trusts but also landowners that manage specifically for timber income. We are blessed to work with the "few private land owners who manage for wildlife or are too old school to change their ways". While we use many of the same herbicides to site prep and plant, we also tend to use less intensive rates and manage on smaller stand size specifically because of wildlife considerations. We do "mid rotation" woody control in pine stands but we also use targeted application with hand crews and lower rates of herbicide - protecting mast producing hardwoods in the mid story and throughout pine stands. We don't use herbicides in the place of fire, etc... Ive always said stand size is a massive factor in wildlife management. Partridge pea is an excellent quail plant but 300 acres is a biological desert, soybeans or clover is excellent for deer but 300 acres is unusable for deer, Bottomland hardwood is great habitat for turkeys but 300 aces is usually devoid of turkeys for part of the year, pine plantations in various ages and management classes can be excellent wildlife habitat but 300 acres in one block is not ideal either, I love burning but a 300 ace burn is not used effectively for deer and turkeys until well greened up and only a small portion would be used for quail -in fact it is a death trap for quail to burn that much in one block..

Our average CC size is 90 acres.

The average CC size statewide is less than that.

MRWR is done on select thinned stands, probably 1/3 or less of thinned stands per year. Some companies never do it. That’s a tiny fraction of acres.

There’s been a huge awareness of rates of herbicide at the industry level. The industry is good at opex.

Banded herbaceous control in the Spring is very popular today. That means about 20% of a CC area is actually sprayed. Inbetween the rows are not sprayed. The wildlife guys approve.

Yeah, that may be the average but when that 90 acres butts up to 110 acres on the north side, 2 80 acre tracts on the east and west side and a 120 acre tract on the south that have all been cut within the last 5 years, and managed the same way, the void left is huge.

I'll say this, whatever Scotch is doing... works. It may not be the absolute best way to be the most profitable, or the absolute best way to manage for the game. But all of their properties seem to have decent to good turkey numbers. Even when in areas that surrounding properties dont have the same result.

One thing this thread shows is when you work in a particular field the koolaid is strong. Whether it is DNR, timber, Ag, or academia it doesnt seem to matter. Just human nature I suppose.

And you cant convince me otherwise!

The timber industry is the #1 job producer in the state (unless auto has edged it out recently). You got to live with it. Turkey figured out how. It’s time for hunters to do the same. Some of the best (most of the best) turkey producing counties are heavy timber producing counties - top of the list counties. Landowners who are committed to keeping land “wild”, whether they grow and produce timber or not - are turkeys best friends. I don’t like kool-aid. And facts don’t care about your feelings, or mine

If three bucks is plenty for the deer hunters , then surely three birds is enough. There is no where near as many gobblers as bucks. Hmmm

Heck, I just mix up my own flavor.