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Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3425426
06/16/21 06:26 AM
06/16/21 06:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,626
Florida
P
Peach Offline
10 point
Peach  Offline
10 point
P
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,626
Florida
We had 7000 acres of mostly pine plantation that was absolutely loaded with turkeys. They started spraying all the clear cuts and the turkeys have literally disappeared. I saw one gobbler during deer season that had an eleven inch beard and didn’t look like it weighed 10 pounds. It was shaped like a stork and had white junk all over its feathers.

Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3426044
06/17/21 07:58 AM
06/17/21 07:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,726
Lower AL
K
k bush Offline
12 point
k bush  Offline
12 point
K
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,726
Lower AL
If they really want to increase the turkey numbers they should increase cost share opportunities for private landowners to implement a prescribed fire program and work on nest predators. A CRP type program that has a multi-year plan rather than a one-time shot of cost share money would really help. I think fire helps but I also think a size restriction on burn units would help too.


"Cull" is just another four letter word...
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: k bush] #3426087
06/17/21 08:59 AM
06/17/21 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,993
Covington County
Squeaky Online content
12 point
Squeaky  Online Content
12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,993
Covington County
Originally Posted by k bush
If they really want to increase the turkey numbers they should increase cost share opportunities for private landowners to implement a prescribed fire program and work on nest predators. A CRP type program that has a multi-year plan rather than a one-time shot of cost share money would really help. I think fire helps but I also think a size restriction on burn units would help too.


Unfortunately these state agencies aren't interested in addressing the real issues at hand. Most don't have the funding nor are they interested in raising the funding for these type programs. I got into a little discussion with the Turkey Doc on his facebook page. When I started referencing my 32 years of experience to him that was the end of the discussion. Since I wasn't willing to toe the line on what he was presenting he was done. It's a crying shame several of state agencies are listening to this wing nut and signing up!!


"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: Squeaky] #3426117
06/17/21 09:41 AM
06/17/21 09:41 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,894
Cullman
C
CKyleC Offline
(Can't Keep It Up...)
CKyleC  Offline
(Can't Keep It Up...)
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,894
Cullman
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Originally Posted by k bush
If they really want to increase the turkey numbers they should increase cost share opportunities for private landowners to implement a prescribed fire program and work on nest predators. A CRP type program that has a multi-year plan rather than a one-time shot of cost share money would really help. I think fire helps but I also think a size restriction on burn units would help too.


Unfortunately these state agencies aren't interested in addressing the real issues at hand. Most don't have the funding nor are they interested in raising the funding for these type programs. I got into a little discussion with the Turkey Doc on his facebook page. When I started referencing my 32 years of experience to him that was the end of the discussion. Since I wasn't willing to toe the line on what he was presenting he was done. It's a crying shame several of state agencies are listening to this wing nut and signing up!!



this....100% this!!!


"In Alabama, we prefer to kill small bucks on big properties"-Turkey247
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: Squeaky] #3426183
06/17/21 12:31 PM
06/17/21 12:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 264
God's Country
S
Swampdrummin Offline
4 point
Swampdrummin  Offline
4 point
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 264
God's Country
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Originally Posted by k bush
If they really want to increase the turkey numbers they should increase cost share opportunities for private landowners to implement a prescribed fire program and work on nest predators. A CRP type program that has a multi-year plan rather than a one-time shot of cost share money would really help. I think fire helps but I also think a size restriction on burn units would help too.


Unfortunately these state agencies aren't interested in addressing the real issues at hand. Most don't have the funding nor are they interested in raising the funding for these type programs. I got into a little discussion with the Turkey Doc on his facebook page. When I started referencing my 32 years of experience to him that was the end of the discussion. Since I wasn't willing to toe the line on what he was presenting he was done. It's a crying shame several of state agencies are listening to this wing nut and signing up!!



He’s ghosted me and couple other turkey hunting lawyers on facebook once he saw the traps that were painted for him. Granted, the weren’t really traps, just logical fallacies being played out.


Quack quack.
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: Squeaky] #3426199
06/17/21 12:58 PM
06/17/21 12:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
turkey247 Offline
10 point
turkey247  Offline
10 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Originally Posted by k bush
If they really want to increase the turkey numbers they should increase cost share opportunities for private landowners to implement a prescribed fire program and work on nest predators. A CRP type program that has a multi-year plan rather than a one-time shot of cost share money would really help. I think fire helps but I also think a size restriction on burn units would help too.


Unfortunately these state agencies aren't interested in addressing the real issues at hand. Most don't have the funding nor are they interested in raising the funding for these type programs. I got into a little discussion with the Turkey Doc on his facebook page. When I started referencing my 32 years of experience to him that was the end of the discussion. Since I wasn't willing to toe the line on what he was presenting he was done. It's a crying shame several of state agencies are listening to this wing nut and signing up!!


Been trying to tell y’all, he and his tactics and his minions, are essentially anti hunters.

Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: turkey247] #3426205
06/17/21 01:09 PM
06/17/21 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted by turkey247
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Originally Posted by k bush
If they really want to increase the turkey numbers they should increase cost share opportunities for private landowners to implement a prescribed fire program and work on nest predators. A CRP type program that has a multi-year plan rather than a one-time shot of cost share money would really help. I think fire helps but I also think a size restriction on burn units would help too.


Unfortunately these state agencies aren't interested in addressing the real issues at hand. Most don't have the funding nor are they interested in raising the funding for these type programs. I got into a little discussion with the Turkey Doc on his facebook page. When I started referencing my 32 years of experience to him that was the end of the discussion. Since I wasn't willing to toe the line on what he was presenting he was done. It's a crying shame several of state agencies are listening to this wing nut and signing up!!


Been trying to tell y’all, he and his tactics and his minions, are essentially anti hunters.


You are right, and it has really surprised me at how many hunters have fallen for it.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: turkey247] #3426355
06/17/21 06:19 PM
06/17/21 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 315
NE Mississippi
D
deerhunt1988 Offline
4 point
deerhunt1988  Offline
4 point
D
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 315
NE Mississippi
Originally Posted by turkey247


Been trying to tell y’all, he and his tactics and his minions, are essentially anti hunters.



And just think how his theories look to anti-hunters. Us, as hunters, literally killing birds before they are all able to successfully breed. The harvest of turkey having an effect on reproduction.

To the layman with no knowledge of turkey or turkey hunting......Say, a random person on the street.... If you asked them whether they are against legal, ethical, turkey hunting, most will likely say "No.".

Now twist the question and ask "Are you against turkey hunting, where hunters are shooting birds before they are all able to breed which is possibly hurting populations?" You will definitely get some different answers!

He literally is providing fuel for anti hunters.

Last edited by deerhunt1988; 06/17/21 06:20 PM.
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3426362
06/17/21 06:26 PM
06/17/21 06:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 930
Piney Ridge
G
Gobl4me Offline
6 point
Gobl4me  Offline
6 point
G
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 930
Piney Ridge
He and the youtubers are made for each other. They love the spotlight. And the rookies worship them

Last edited by Gobl4me; 06/17/21 06:27 PM.
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3428024
06/20/21 06:37 PM
06/20/21 06:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,340
Jackson County
B
BrentM Offline
Mr. Turkey
BrentM  Offline
Mr. Turkey
B
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,340
Jackson County
I’m one of the few on here that agrees with chamberlain on some stuff. I think the dominate birds that did most of the breeding have always been protected by Mother Nature. They always had hens with them so they were way harder to kill until late season when they too became expendable.
Fans and gobbler decoys have changed all that in a drastic way. I’ve used both so I’m not condemning anybody for doing it but I truly believe now that it really screws stuff up when you kill those dominant birds early season. I’ll not be guilty of doing it again. I’m not in favor of shortened seasons and limit reductions but I believe that if fans were outlawed and gobbler decoys were outlawed for at least the first half of the season that the numbers would come back.

Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3428073
06/20/21 07:36 PM
06/20/21 07:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 240
LA
sloughfoot Offline
4 point
sloughfoot  Offline
4 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 240
LA
The popularity of the sport due to the age we live in is a part of what’s going on with the population decline. It’s like we have somehow always managed to ride the razors edge between turkey harvest, habitat loss, predators,disease, and hens raising successful clutches. I honestly believe now there is little to be done because we have tipped the balance out of the wild turkeys favor. Take every fella with a shotgun and a Facebook page killing turkeys just to post a pic of it for folks to see, and then legalize fanning and decoys because people need on more advantage over a bird with a brain the size of a pecan.Then every lease in the state has a feeder with a pile of corn under it during deer season, which we know isn’t good for them, on top of it giving a buffet like place to hunt for predators. Tss shells are awesome in the hands of a responsible hunter, but how many hens standing fifteen yards behind gobblers are running off and dying? How many folks shoot way too far? The damage has been done folks, and I sure as the world don’t think pushing the season back so people can tromp around bumping hens off nests in late April and May is the answer. We have overstressed the resource. Bag limits do little because a good hunter with turkeys to hunt can see turkeys flop no matter who pulls the trigger. Not to mention the lack of law enforcement presence to deter folks from killing all they want. I hope they rebound, and would do whatever it takes to make it happen, but I don’t see a feasible plan to stop the bleeding.... in Alabama or elsewhere.

Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3428101
06/20/21 08:05 PM
06/20/21 08:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
I know guys that kill over - if they were not close to me I would probably turn them in - it’s not impressive - embarrassing and I think we hv several dudes that do that - prob not the number one problem - but has not helped

Way back when before there’re was laws - animals were about killed off - being an outlaw not a help


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: BrentM] #3428141
06/20/21 08:43 PM
06/20/21 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,768
North Jackson
R
ridgestalker Offline
14 point
ridgestalker  Offline
14 point
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,768
North Jackson
Originally Posted by BrentM
I’m one of the few on here that agrees with chamberlain on some stuff. I think the dominate birds that did most of the breeding have always been protected by Mother Nature. They always had hens with them so they were way harder to kill until late season when they too became expendable.
Fans and gobbler decoys have changed all that in a drastic way. I’ve used both so I’m not condemning anybody for doing it but I truly believe now that it really screws stuff up when you kill those dominant birds early season. I’ll not be guilty of doing it again. I’m not in favor of shortened seasons and limit reductions but I believe that if fans were outlawed and gobbler decoys were outlawed for at least the first half of the season that the numbers would come back.

X2 The decline IMO started about the same time. Nothing has changed up here other than allowing decoys. Same habitat as always in the mtns.


"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ridgestalker] #3428267
06/21/21 06:50 AM
06/21/21 06:50 AM
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 173
Vinegar bend
JLedbetter Offline
3 point
JLedbetter  Offline
3 point
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 173
Vinegar bend
Originally Posted by ridgestalker
Originally Posted by BrentM
I’m one of the few on here that agrees with chamberlain on some stuff. I think the dominate birds that did most of the breeding have always been protected by Mother Nature. They always had hens with them so they were way harder to kill until late season when they too became expendable.
Fans and gobbler decoys have changed all that in a drastic way. I’ve used both so I’m not condemning anybody for doing it but I truly believe now that it really screws stuff up when you kill those dominant birds early season. I’ll not be guilty of doing it again. I’m not in favor of shortened seasons and limit reductions but I believe that if fans were outlawed and gobbler decoys were outlawed for at least the first half of the season that the numbers would come back.

X2 The decline IMO started about the same time. Nothing has changed up here other than allowing decoys. Same habitat as always in the mtns.


X3

Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3428310
06/21/21 08:30 AM
06/21/21 08:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,239
IN
P
ParrotHead89 Offline OP
10 point
ParrotHead89  Offline OP
10 point
P
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,239
IN
Has Mississippi set their opening date for next year yet. I would be shocked if they kept it earlier than everyone else again after they got hammered last year.

Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3428323
06/21/21 08:45 AM
06/21/21 08:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
I still see a bunch of Hens - anybody seen the hens declining? If not - what’s happening to the Gobs - Predation on jakes and poults? I am seeing empty or poultless hens

Heck - take decoys away - we added decoys many years ago - I hav never fanned in my life and never plan to. So you guys think fanning has killed all the turkeys - people been using gobb decoys and jakes for many years - since before decline - so u saying it fanning???


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3428325
06/21/21 08:50 AM
06/21/21 08:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
Covid and woods full of hunters ain’t helped


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: ParrotHead89] #3428329
06/21/21 08:53 AM
06/21/21 08:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,092
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Online Mad
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,092
alabama
the declines in west Alabama started a LONG time before decoys were made legal


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: sloughfoot] #3428523
06/21/21 02:01 PM
06/21/21 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071
NBama
mr.clif Offline
6 point
mr.clif  Offline
6 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071
NBama
Originally Posted by sloughfoot
The popularity of the sport due to the age we live in is a part of what’s going on with the population decline. It’s like we have somehow always managed to ride the razors edge between turkey harvest, habitat loss, predators,disease, and hens raising successful clutches. I honestly believe now there is little to be done because we have tipped the balance out of the wild turkeys favor. Take every fella with a shotgun and a Facebook page killing turkeys just to post a pic of it for folks to see, and then legalize fanning and decoys because people need on more advantage over a bird with a brain the size of a pecan.Then every lease in the state has a feeder with a pile of corn under it during deer season, which we know isn’t good for them, on top of it giving a buffet like place to hunt for predators. Tss shells are awesome in the hands of a responsible hunter, but how many hens standing fifteen yards behind gobblers are running off and dying? How many folks shoot way too far? The damage has been done folks, and I sure as the world don’t think pushing the season back so people can tromp around bumping hens off nests in late April and May is the answer. We have overstressed the resource. Bag limits do little because a good hunter with turkeys to hunt can see turkeys flop no matter who pulls the trigger. Not to mention the lack of law enforcement presence to deter folks from killing all they want. I hope they rebound, and would do whatever it takes to make it happen, but I don’t see a feasible plan to stop the bleeding.... in Alabama or elsewhere.


Hit the nail on the head, we got the Youtubers to thank for this. THP was even raising money for that chamberlain nut. Hes now making more money destroying turkey hunting as we knew it than being a professor without even providing proof just opinions.

Re: Kentucky Changes [Re: BrentM] #3428530
06/21/21 02:19 PM
06/21/21 02:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,387
A
Atoler Online content
14 point
Atoler  Online Content
14 point
A
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,387
Originally Posted by BrentM
I’m one of the few on here that agrees with chamberlain on some stuff. I think the dominate birds that did most of the breeding have always been protected by Mother Nature. They always had hens with them so they were way harder to kill until late season when they too became expendable.
Fans and gobbler decoys have changed all that in a drastic way. I’ve used both so I’m not condemning anybody for doing it but I truly believe now that it really screws stuff up when you kill those dominant birds early season. I’ll not be guilty of doing it again. I’m not in favor of shortened seasons and limit reductions but I believe that if fans were outlawed and gobbler decoys were outlawed for at least the first half of the season that the numbers would come back.


Brent, I also agree with chamberlain on certain things. Like his prescribed fire studies for example. It's a popular thing to bitch about, but his research clearly shows burning is better for turkeys, than not burning. Even in nesting season.

I don't agree with his "dominant gobbler" ideas for a few reasons. 1. I never recall killing a "dominant bird" early in the season, where a new bird did not take up with that group of hens within a few days. 2. He's had ample opportunity to research this, and has avoided it. Or at least avoided exposing the results. 3. There are multiple states whose seasons, bag limits, and start dates fall right in line with is preaching. None of them are performing better than alabama.

With all that being said. At least your decoy/fan suggestion is logical. If you're goal is to save those henned up birds early in the season, that is the simplest way to do it, and would have far more impact than reducing a bag limit, or going to one gobbler for the first 109 days..

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