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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: whack-n-stack]
#3396274
04/23/21 10:50 AM
04/23/21 10:50 AM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953
Round ‘bout there
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Go here and scroll down to Page 4. It describes the revenue and what it can be spent on: https://www.outdooralabama.com/site...ate-Federal%20Res-NR%20LY18%20Packet.pdfThe last section about "projects outside of the US" is, best I can remember, related to Ducks Unlimited being involved with the Alabama state stamp creation and continuation to this day. I may be wrong -- if so, clarification would be great -- but I believe DU wayyyy back in the day pushed for an Alabama stamp requirement and then either wanted a portion or occasionally would ask for a 'grant' or something similar for some project. Said project might be in the state or elsewhere. I believe most were and are in the state. A pump at a WMA, for example, might need to be replaced or updated and the "DU Project" would be replacing it with money from the state stamp along with some (or matching) DU money. Again, could be wrong on that but I think that's how-why the state stamp came about. Not all states have and require stamps for the "privilege" of hunting waterfowl.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: whack-n-stack]
#3396275
04/23/21 10:52 AM
04/23/21 10:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953
Round ‘bout there
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If you want to find out specifically how it is spent, like a line-item description, you would have to contact the DCNR and probably ask for their revenue office. And then ask for an itemized expenditure report.
I'd bet a dollar to a donut they'd ask "Why?" but that's not their concern. The expenditure of public funds is a public record and anyone can ask for that without having to give a reason.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: Clem]
#3396300
04/23/21 11:32 AM
04/23/21 11:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,747 RBC, AL
Drake322
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,747
RBC, AL
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Go here and scroll down to Page 4. It describes the revenue and what it can be spent on: https://www.outdooralabama.com/site...ate-Federal%20Res-NR%20LY18%20Packet.pdfThe last section about "projects outside of the US" is, best I can remember, related to Ducks Unlimited being involved with the Alabama state stamp creation and continuation to this day. I may be wrong -- if so, clarification would be great -- but I believe DU wayyyy back in the day pushed for an Alabama stamp requirement and then either wanted a portion or occasionally would ask for a 'grant' or something similar for some project. Said project might be in the state or elsewhere. I believe most were and are in the state. A pump at a WMA, for example, might need to be replaced or updated and the "DU Project" would be replacing it with money from the state stamp along with some (or matching) DU money. Again, could be wrong on that but I think that's how-why the state stamp came about. Not all states have and require stamps for the "privilege" of hunting waterfowl. That is exactly what would happen as was told to me back when I was on DUs Etowah Co. committee. When we would ask specifically for things to be done "locally", we would get a blanket statement of "well we will have to go to Memphis and ask, but I doubt it". They used to point blank tell you they were in land conservation, not duck numbers.
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: whack-n-stack]
#3396314
04/23/21 12:00 PM
04/23/21 12:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953
Round ‘bout there
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Driving to our deer hunting spot several years ago in Saskatchewan, we passed a huge DU project. Big, gorgeous tract with marsh and I think near a river.
I looked into it and apparently that's one of the hottest areas for breeding and migration for the Central Flyway. OK, very cool. I'm glad there's a project.
But at the same time, there is NOTHING there that would indicate it would be destroyed, developed or otherwise harmed. There are no big towns or infrastructure, such as interstates (or whatever Canada calls interstates) or a significant railroad or airline (no airline, to be honest.) It truly was in the middle of nowhere. I don't even know if there was a town large enough nearby to have lodging, other than Ma and Pa SasKettle's Shed 'n Sleep.
And so my first cynical thought was, "This is a 'project' that may be beneficial but probaby is more beneficial to the few DU muckety-mucks and their pals who get to come hunt it each year." Someone was spending scads of money -- DU members' money -- to buy or lease the land and "protect" it from something -- Mother Nature? -- in order to "help the ducks." It just seemed weird. It's not like the land was within a short drive of a mega city or had a rail line and airport nearby to help it become an industrial site. Hell, there was no one around there to work at an industrial site, anyway.
I hate to be that way, to be honest, but it's how I'm wired. A lot of people get into DU or NWTF or RMEF or other orgs with the greatest of intentions. And then they discover that the "state project" has to be approved by someone at headquarters who is crunching numbers. Or the regional director didn't tell them the whole story about banquet money, or something else. Or after a few years of all that they throw hands and say "Eh, phuck it, I'll keep my money and hunt myself." I've seen it happen and have talked with people.
It's nothing new, though, either. This kind of cynicism and internal org tomfoolery has been going on for decades with multiple orgs. Even some of the "green" and anti-hunting orgs have experienced it. It's typical when you're dealing with money, power, persuasion, politics and ego.
Last edited by Clem; 04/23/21 12:02 PM.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: Clem]
#3396361
04/23/21 01:01 PM
04/23/21 01:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,747 RBC, AL
Drake322
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,747
RBC, AL
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I hate to be that way, to be honest, but it's how I'm wired. A lot of people get into DU or NWTF or RMEF or other orgs with the greatest of intentions. And then they discover that the "state project" has to be approved by someone at headquarters who is crunching numbers. Or the regional director didn't tell them the whole story about banquet money, or something else. Or after a few years of all that they throw hands and say "Eh, phuck it, I'll keep my money and hunt myself." I've seen it happen and have talked with people.
It's nothing new, though, either. This kind of cynicism and internal org tomfoolery has been going on for decades with multiple orgs. Even some of the "green" and anti-hunting orgs have experienced it. It's typical when you're dealing with money, power, persuasion, politics and ego.
Took the words right out of my brain! That is why I hung it up The greedy Doug Lasher (Alabama DU Manager at the time) wanted to know where every penny went. We had a few ass kissers that would sneak him info. Chairman & few others (merchandise buyer for auctions) would get carpet burns because we spent too much on the steaks or auction guns for the sponsors dinner.
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: whack-n-stack]
#3396367
04/23/21 01:11 PM
04/23/21 01:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953
Round ‘bout there
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I have no knowledge about this aspect but always wondered, since the regional guys were so hard on locals about expenses and revenue:
Were the regional directors incentivized? If their area (region) made more, did they get a bonus or earn more income?
I know they didn't work for free and figure they had (have) some kind of salary. But I know the competition was fierce and always was pushed as "do more!" That was couched as "do more for the ducks" but I always wondered if it was "do more, so I can get my bonus!"
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: whack-n-stack]
#3396388
04/23/21 01:33 PM
04/23/21 01:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,747 RBC, AL
Drake322
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,747
RBC, AL
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Clem they drew a salary, which was damn good from what I was told back then. From what I remember, they had targets and if they beat projections, it went into a bonus. Whether is be quarterly or yearly I do not know. He never paid for a ticket, got to eat & drink alcohol free and other perks. I do not remember him ever buying any raffle tickets. I do remember him trying to bump a dinner gun auction and got busted. Sure, we had someone on the committee assigned to buy something if it was going to sell below cost.
Regular banquet meals were as simple, inexpensive as possible. He always questioned the sponsors banquet spend. We would hide money from the regular banquet for it. Always got a 1" thick ribeye dinner cooked in front of you how you wanted, plenty of alcohol and good auction/raffle merchandise. Sponsors started at $300 and went up from there. We never let him know when or where we had the sponsors banquet. We did not want him there.
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: whack-n-stack]
#3396408
04/23/21 02:12 PM
04/23/21 02:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953
Round ‘bout there
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Hahahahaha. Good on y'all. I don't think he was at the sponsors' banquets here, either. Saw him at the regular events, though.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: Clem]
#3397146
04/24/21 02:52 PM
04/24/21 02:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,299 Alabama
whack-n-stack
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,299
Alabama
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I hate to be that way, to be honest, but it's how I'm wired. A lot of people get into DU or NWTF or RMEF or other orgs with the greatest of intentions. And then they discover that the "state project" has to be approved by someone at headquarters who is crunching numbers. Or the regional director didn't tell them the whole story about banquet money, or something else. Or after a few years of all that they throw hands and say "Eh, phuck it, I'll keep my money and hunt myself." I've seen it happen and have talked with people.
It's nothing new, though, either. This kind of cynicism and internal org tomfoolery has been going on for decades with multiple orgs. Even some of the "green" and anti-hunting orgs have experienced it. It's typical when you're dealing with money, power, persuasion, politics and ego.
I’m one of those people. I got fed up with the lack of projects in the areas I hunt. Much less, the whole state. I just keep the money I’d spend on raffle tickets and bidding on stuff to do my own projects. Last year, I put up 5 wood duck boxes and cleaned out the last one today. It’s a job, but I enjoy it because I know for a fact I’m contributing to duck numbers. I just want to know what the state is doing too.
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: whack-n-stack]
#3397409
04/25/21 05:27 AM
04/25/21 05:27 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363 On the X
TickaTicka
12 point
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12 point
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363
On the X
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I agree, till it all under and screw conservation.
Public Land Owner
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: whack-n-stack]
#3398680
04/27/21 09:38 AM
04/27/21 09:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953
Round ‘bout there
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Not a matter of hating conservation or projects or even orgs with "non-profit" status making bazillions doing projects.
It's a matter of transparency. IF any of the state duck stamp money is going to DU or other orgs, or whever it and any license money goes for that matter, it should be put out to the public at least annually. And it should not require pulling molars with rusty pliers to get the information upon request from the department or any state agency.
And yet, many states and agencies in states act like someone is wanting the keys to individual homes to pillage. Same thing in towns with things like police reports, budgets for departments and other public documents. Citizens should not have to provide an answer about why they want to see public information. Just provide it without onerous fees or requests for reasons, or other BS, and be done. Transparency shouldn't be difficult but too often is.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: State Duck Stamps
[Re: Clem]
#3403719
05/05/21 06:18 PM
05/05/21 06:18 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363 On the X
TickaTicka
12 point
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12 point
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363
On the X
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Not a matter of hating conservation or projects or even orgs with "non-profit" status making bazillions doing projects.
It's a matter of transparency. IF any of the state duck stamp money is going to DU or other orgs, or whever it and any license money goes for that matter, it should be put out to the public at least annually. And it should not require pulling molars with rusty pliers to get the information upon request from the department or any state agency.
And yet, many states and agencies in states act like someone is wanting the keys to individual homes to pillage. Same thing in towns with things like police reports, budgets for departments and other public documents. Citizens should not have to provide an answer about why they want to see public information. Just provide it without onerous fees or requests for reasons, or other BS, and be done. Transparency shouldn't be difficult but too often is. Agree. Transparency is great. But the alternative is no reason not to support habitat improvement.
Public Land Owner
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