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The Fourth Leg of the Triangle #3359765
02/23/21 05:52 PM
02/23/21 05:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,541
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Online Content OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,541
Awbarn, AL
For years now we have all heard that there are three major components to growing quality deer……..Age, Nutrition, and Genetics.

I believe there is a fourth leg that needs to be added to that triangle that we should look to manage that doesn’t get talked about very much but likely plays a significant role……..It’s “Stress”…………and stress can come in different forms at different times of the year. If we want to manage for the highest quality deer herd on a property then we need to become managers of stress and reduce it wherever possible…..


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3359768
02/23/21 05:57 PM
02/23/21 05:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
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Montgomery
That "Fourth Leg" has been discussed and analyzed a million times in a million ways.

It is called PRESSURE. And people have been talking about how to minimize pressure forever - low impact hunting, pulse hunting, minimum human sound, minimum human scent, not hunting crappy warm days, don't blast every doe, don't shoot does on food plots, don't wear a place out before the rut etc. IT IS OLD NEWS. And yes, everyone should seek to keep pressure to a minimum if they are serious mature trophy hunters.

Last edited by WmHunter; 02/23/21 06:00 PM.

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3359777
02/23/21 06:11 PM
02/23/21 06:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 17,925
North AL
A
AU338MAG Online IMG_0051.GIF
Old Mossy Horns
AU338MAG  Online IMG_0051.GIF
Old Mossy Horns
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Joined: Sep 2012
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North AL
Stress is more than hunting pressure. Overpopulation creates stress. Weather extremes create stress. Competition for food, mates, etc creates stress.


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales

Molon Labe
Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3359786
02/23/21 06:19 PM
02/23/21 06:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 4,217
Jasper Al
E
eclipse829 Offline
10 point
eclipse829  Offline
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E
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 4,217
Jasper Al
Every time a 6.5 creed is purchased. the hair stands up on the back of a deers neck and a stomach ulcer begins to form..

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: AU338MAG] #3359791
02/23/21 06:29 PM
02/23/21 06:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,541
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Online Content OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,541
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Stress is more than hunting pressure. Overpopulation creates stress. Weather extremes create stress. Competition for food, mates, etc creates stress.


Absolutely.........also add stress from coyotes to the list.....especially during critical time periods like fawning and post rut. I believe on some properties they're applying a good deal of stress on the deer herd......


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: eclipse829] #3359801
02/23/21 06:39 PM
02/23/21 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 5,090
Opp Alabama
bward85 Online content
12 point
bward85  Online Content
12 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 5,090
Opp Alabama
Originally Posted by eclipse829
Every time a 6.5 creed is purchased. the hair stands up on the back of a deers neck and a stomach ulcer begins to form..

rofl

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3359816
02/23/21 06:48 PM
02/23/21 06:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
R
Remington270 Online content
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Online Content
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
In these type discussions, no one ever mentions shooting fewer deer. I guess it's not exciting to "not" pull the trigger. The best deer hunting in the nation, is in places with massive deer populations.

If anyone listens to the MeatEater podcast, a frequent guest on there talks about his area of Wisconsin having 60 deer per square mile. They have phenomenal hunting in terms of quantity, and quality. For reference, that's probably 4 times as many deer as huge swaths of the state of Alabama.

I don't think the state should limit deer killing, but land owners should consider it.

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3359838
02/23/21 07:16 PM
02/23/21 07:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,927
Opelika
olemossy Offline
8 point
olemossy  Offline
8 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,927
Opelika
Great post Rem.







thumbup thumbup

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3359961
02/23/21 08:56 PM
02/23/21 08:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
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Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
That part of Wisconsin is Probly blessed with super amounts of row crop food and protection buffers. That really helps that kind of situation


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: 257wbymag] #3360003
02/23/21 09:33 PM
02/23/21 09:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
R
Remington270 Online content
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Online Content
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Originally Posted by 257wbymag
That part of Wisconsin is Probly blessed with super amounts of row crop food and protection buffers. That really helps that kind of situation


Could be.

The point I’m trying to make is we say we want bigger deer, but we also want better hunting. That means seeing deer regularly and several of them. Huge chunks of the state are nowhere near that.

I don’t know a single person that says “man, I hunted 3 days in a row and only saw one deer but I know there’s a big deer out there, I’m pumped!” The best places to hunt have the most deer, period, end of story.

I know a guy that got permission to hunt several hundred acres for meat, meaning he was willing to kill anything without spots. He didn’t see a deer until his 7th hunt, and killed a spotless fawn, or whatever you call the smallest possible deer rofl

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: eclipse829] #3360025
02/23/21 09:57 PM
02/23/21 09:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,334
North Alabama
H
Hammertime7v2 Offline
8 point
Hammertime7v2  Offline
8 point
H
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,334
North Alabama
Originally Posted by eclipse829
Every time a 6.5 creed is purchased. the hair stands up on the back of a deers neck and a stomach ulcer begins to form..



Now that's good right there!


Professional Smart Alec
Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3360031
02/23/21 10:04 PM
02/23/21 10:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
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Posts: 10,717
Earth
Before the every day doe season I could go see 30-40 on a hunt on some of the better places I hav hunted but we did not hav huge deer then. One of the spots was shoot only if you mount and we did not shoot much but we did not hav 170 inch deer running around

Wisconsin - Iowa - KS etc a hole other stratosphere of deer hunting and that has nothing to do w trigger pull

Heck Arky did not hav ton of deer - but where I was they had better deer than central Alabama and that did not hav anything to do with trigger pull

As far as pressure goes - When I control property - I minimize the pressure and hunt wind - results hav always been good

Lov first time sits on spots not hunted yet or low pressure spot in the rut


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: Remington270] #3360038
02/23/21 10:08 PM
02/23/21 10:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,940
Right behind you
Mbrock Online content
Fancy
Mbrock  Online Content
Fancy
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Posts: 7,940
Right behind you
Originally Posted by Remington270
In these type discussions, no one ever mentions shooting fewer deer. I guess it's not exciting to "not" pull the trigger. The best deer hunting in the nation, is in places with massive deer populations.

If anyone listens to the MeatEater podcast, a frequent guest on there talks about his area of Wisconsin having 60 deer per square mile. They have phenomenal hunting in terms of quantity, and quality. For reference, that's probably 4 times as many deer as huge swaths of the state of Alabama.


There’s plenty of places in AL that support 60 deer per sq mile and more. There’s VERY few places in AL that have 4x less than that. Perception and reality are often very different.

You can’t compare anything in Wisconsin to anything here. You’ve got some of the most fertile soil on earth up there. There’s a reason parts of Wisconsin lead B&C and P&Y entries. The soil and vegetation can support a lot of deer. They also have a 9 day gun season. If we had a 9 day fun season we’d have more deer than the place could support in a hurry.

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: TDog93] #3360039
02/23/21 10:09 PM
02/23/21 10:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
R
Remington270 Online content
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Online Content
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Joined: Nov 2011
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USA
Originally Posted by TDog93
Before the every day doe season I could go see 30-40 on a hunt on some of the better places I hav hunted but we did not hav huge deer then. One of the spots was shoot only if you mount and we did not shoot much but we did not hav 170 inch deer running around

Wisconsin - Iowa - KS etc a hole other stratosphere of deer hunting and that has nothing to do w trigger pull

Heck Arky did not hav ton of deer - but where I was they had better deer than central Alabama and that did not hav anything to do with trigger pull

As far as pressure goes - When I control property - I minimize the pressure and hunt wind - results hav always been good

Lov first time sits on spots not hunted yet or low pressure spot in the rut



Best places in Alabama have insane deer numbers, is my point. Y’all can have the 12 deer per square mile. For my money I want acreage with 22 deer in the field at dusk. I’ve spent enough days of my life leaving an empty field at dark beers

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3360042
02/23/21 10:10 PM
02/23/21 10:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
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Earth
Thanks Mbrock- exactly

X2


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: Mbrock] #3360045
02/23/21 10:18 PM
02/23/21 10:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
R
Remington270 Online content
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Online Content
Freak of Nature
R
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Remington270
In these type discussions, no one ever mentions shooting fewer deer. I guess it's not exciting to "not" pull the trigger. The best deer hunting in the nation, is in places with massive deer populations.

If anyone listens to the MeatEater podcast, a frequent guest on there talks about his area of Wisconsin having 60 deer per square mile. They have phenomenal hunting in terms of quantity, and quality. For reference, that's probably 4 times as many deer as huge swaths of the state of Alabama.


There’s plenty of places in AL that support 60 deer per sq mile and more. There’s VERY few places in AL that have 4x less than that. Perception and reality are often very different.

You can’t compare anything in Wisconsin to anything here. You’ve got some of the most fertile soil on earth up there. There’s a reason parts of Wisconsin lead B&C and P&Y entries. The soil and vegetation can support a lot of deer. They also have a 9 day gun season. If we had a 9 day fun season we’d have more deer than the place could support in a hurry.


I'll show you a few places rofl

Rotten corn piles because no deer ate it, etc.

I've personally got good places to hunt now, but hunting places with low deer population is just sad.

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3360050
02/23/21 10:24 PM
02/23/21 10:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,940
Right behind you
Mbrock Online content
Fancy
Mbrock  Online Content
Fancy
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Posts: 7,940
Right behind you
They are out there. I can name a few myself. It’s typically the result of terrible habitat with assistance from small acreage ownerships and heavy pressure.

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3360070
02/23/21 10:57 PM
02/23/21 10:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 21,977
blount county alabama
jwalker77 Online confused
Pumpkin
jwalker77  Online Confused
Pumpkin
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 21,977
blount county alabama
Cnc i used to watch those high fence deer breeding shows some. They go out of their way to see to it those deer are comfortable. Ive heard them talk about deer being less stressed making them more healthy. Same with cows and about any other livestock. I reckon stress would work on a wild animal the same way it would work on us.

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3360093
02/24/21 12:22 AM
02/24/21 12:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,777
alabama
outdoors1 Offline
10 point
outdoors1  Offline
10 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,777
alabama
CNC, one of the biggest stress factors I have ever seen is a family that could hunt day or night 24/7 adjacent to a small farm I hunted for a season. They worked for themselves, could take off the whole season if desired, and named each deer, leaving just enough to have a few for next year. They would re-define the word meat-eaters. Another predator stood no chance of competing for food with a deer on their place, so the deer was stress free in one way, until they ended up on the dinner table.

Re: The Fourth Leg of the Triangle [Re: CNC] #3360104
02/24/21 01:33 AM
02/24/21 01:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,805
Banana Republic
jb20 Offline
Old Mossy Horns
jb20  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
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Banana Republic
I'm a tad different than most when it comes to hunting...I love eating and I love killing big deer...I won't shoot a doe around here cuz we don't have many deer but ill take a 2yr old if my freezer is low, i lay off hunting different tracts until my freezer is good then save the best areas for last...if it's a good day for hunting I'll hunt my best areas and let deer go bigger than what I may have taken a week earlier...ill also let go a young buck that I think has potential to be real big


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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