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Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3183495
08/03/20 11:42 PM
08/03/20 11:42 PM
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Here's another example to illustrate this concept.....When a mature stand of timber is clear-cut.....what species of understory plants do you see return immediately? Is it sicklepod, pigweed, nutgrass, etc....???....No.... usually not.....Why not?? ...Because the soil is in an advanced stage where it is rich with soil organic matter and teaming with a vibrant microbial community that is fungally dominated. It's not not in pioneer conditions where these plants are designed to thrive and grow.


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3183497
08/04/20 12:28 AM
08/04/20 12:28 AM
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In said pasture the only pigweed is where the hay was fed, 30+- acres used for weening only, bush hogged but never fertilized, only thing I
Know that’s the cause of it..

Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: Ridge Life] #3183765
08/04/20 01:16 PM
08/04/20 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ridge Life
In said pasture the only pigweed is where the hay was fed, 30+- acres used for weening only, bush hogged but never fertilized, only thing I
Know that’s the cause of it..


If you're not familiar with it.....do some research into the concept of "rotational grazing" also called "mob grazing".....and look at how they use some of the same principles. Also check out the specific traits of pigweed and the soil conditions that it favors. See if there is any correlation between those conditions and what you have in your field. I'm sure the problem did come in with the bay but maybe it will help you get rid of the problem long term instead of only having a temporary fix


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3184159
08/04/20 09:13 PM
08/04/20 09:13 PM
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Cynical Offline
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CNC you should patent the proprietary microbe composition you’ve “created” with literally no effort.

It’s like the 2020 version of Mona Vie; except it’s microbes not acai berry.

Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3184197
08/04/20 09:34 PM
08/04/20 09:34 PM
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N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
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CNC votes for Biden all day and everyday. Mark it


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: 257wbymag] #3184215
08/04/20 09:45 PM
08/04/20 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 257wbymag
CNC votes for Biden all day and everyday. Mark it


Yep….when you can’t back up the merits of your own argument then switch to discrediting the messenger…..You’ve gotten pretty pathetic with your behavior.



Last edited by CNC; 08/04/20 09:53 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: Cynical] #3184220
08/04/20 09:46 PM
08/04/20 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Cynical
CNC you should patent the proprietary microbe composition you’ve “created” with literally no effort.

It’s like the 2020 version of Mona Vie; except it’s microbes not acai berry.




I haven’t created anything….it’s simply just the natural process of things. Hell. I learned about how species transition from pioneer to climax in Forestry School. You know I find it ironic how much praying goes on for each other around here yet when it comes to this discussion you want to act as if the things in nature don’t have any kind of design or purpose. What? You think all of these plants are just randomly growing with no rhyme or reason??

Last edited by CNC; 08/04/20 09:47 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: CNC] #3184451
08/05/20 11:12 AM
08/05/20 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by Cynical
CNC you should patent the proprietary microbe composition you’ve “created” with literally no effort.

It’s like the 2020 version of Mona Vie; except it’s microbes not acai berry.




I haven’t created anything….it’s simply just the natural process of things. Hell. I learned about how species transition from pioneer to climax in Forestry School. You know I find it ironic how much praying goes on for each other around here yet when it comes to this discussion you want to act as if the things in nature don’t have any kind of design or purpose. What? You think all of these plants are just randomly growing with no rhyme or reason??


No dude, I think you're the guy who sees a huge pile of horse manure under your feet and is smiling because there's a horse nearby. I.e., you're (probably unintentionally) looking at weeds and trying to find the good in it, even for noxious weeds. Other people don't view them the same. They're an agronomic problem, not a benefit.

Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: Cynical] #3184459
08/05/20 11:23 AM
08/05/20 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Cynical


No dude, I think you're the guy who sees a huge pile of horse manure under your feet and is smiling because there's a horse nearby. I.e., you're (probably unintentionally) looking at weeds and trying to find the good in it, even for noxious weeds. Other people don't view them the same. They're an agronomic problem, not a benefit.



I disagree….They do have a agronomic benefit and a purpose. Their job is to be the first ones in to a degraded situation. They reestablish root channels….recover the soil surface…..stop any erosion….etc….They are like the first responders of the plant world. They are what we call “noxious” so that they are able to do their first responder jobs without the animals wiping them out. If that happened then the situation would possibly remain degraded forever. Its only after these plants have done their job and the soil has been put back on a path to being healthy and fertile again that the other plants…more beneficial to wildlife…..return and take their place. If soil is kept in a situation where its void of organic matter and life….then nature will continue to send in the first responders.


“The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant, "What good is it?" If the land mechanism as a whole is good, then every part is good, whether we understand it or not. If the biota, in the course of aeons, has built something we like but do not understand, then who but a fool would discard seemingly useless parts? To keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering.”

--- Aldo Leopold

Last edited by CNC; 08/05/20 11:26 AM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3184712
08/05/20 06:59 PM
08/05/20 06:59 PM
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You need to familiarize yourself with what agronomic actually means then.

”It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.”

Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3184722
08/05/20 07:19 PM
08/05/20 07:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
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257wbymag Offline
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CNC and agronomist in the same sentence is laughable.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: Cynical] #3184766
08/05/20 08:31 PM
08/05/20 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cynical
You need to familiarize yourself with what agronomic actually means then.

”It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.”


The science of soil management and crop production......What's your point? You just reaching for whatever lifleline you can grab?


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3184814
08/05/20 09:34 PM
08/05/20 09:34 PM
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My point is that your festering weed garden doesn’t fit in crop production, in any way. You’re trying to sell a bill of goods that has no realistic application to anything involving crops. It’s a joke. Deer will eat your weeds, but they’d prefer a clean weed-free field of soybeans 100 out of 100 times. You trying to change the subject is comical. There’s your lifeline, weed man.

Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3184816
08/05/20 09:36 PM
08/05/20 09:36 PM
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257wbymag Offline
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Hey pass that man some more weed.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3184847
08/05/20 10:40 PM
08/05/20 10:40 PM
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Northwest Bama
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You talking bout The Godfather of patties “Gregg Judy” at green pastures farms stuff like pack it down
I get the whole concept of “GRASS Farming” but when you buy hay with weed seed in it it’s gonna get there
via the hay..I got some kudzu for land erosion man.. and pass that this way 257..

Outside the box this is hilarious, a weed man and a weed killer Man in conversation

Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: Cynical] #3184855
08/05/20 11:03 PM
08/05/20 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Cynical
My point is that your festering weed garden doesn’t fit in crop production, in any way. You’re trying to sell a bill of goods that has no realistic application to anything involving crops. It’s a joke. Deer will eat your weeds, but they’d prefer a clean weed-free field of soybeans 100 out of 100 times. You trying to change the subject is comical. There’s your lifeline, weed man.


Well for one like I’ve said before…..this is a deer forum and we’re managing wildlife….not farmers producing row crops. So much of what farmers might have to do is irrelevant to how we can manage. That being said though you’re wrong about my “festering weed garden” not being applicable. The principles of soil health are still being followed and still the exact same. Agronomy is the science of soil management…..well, that’s exactly what these plants were put on the earth to do…..take care of the soil and feed the animals……Is it not? Are these “festering weeds” not the most superior soil managers on the planet? Put your soybeans up side by side with teaweed and see which one outcompetes the other when a drought hits or when deer heavily browse it or when it's in poor sandy soil….Plant your soybeans in some these degraded fields of sand here in South Alabama and see how well they grow and repair the degraded conditions. My festering weed garden as you call it has gained nearly 7% soil organic matter since I started in some of the worst sand in south alabama. At last check it was holding over 4000 lbs of CA to the acre as a result with balanced nutrient levels that don't leach away as fast as you can add them. That’s the field deer prefer to feed in and I don’t have to plant soybeans in order to draw them in. I’m consistently holding as many deer on my property as the surrounding bedding cover witl allow and I’m doing it at a fraction of the cost and labor as what you’re suggesting. The end results haven’t been too bad either as my “festering weed garden” has produced 12 mature bucks. Isn’t it the end result that really matters to us anyways?

Y’all keep trying…..maybe bring in three or four more folks to help out…….it just gives me a reason to talk about it. I think I may go roll a big fat one now just for yall... cool

Last edited by CNC; 08/05/20 11:30 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3184887
08/06/20 06:47 AM
08/06/20 06:47 AM
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On the idea that deer prefer a weed free field of soybeans 100 times out of 100……

Soybeans are definitely an attractive draw and there’s certainly nothing wrong with someone planting them if they have the means to be able to grow them. However, deer are browsers that consume a large variety of vegetation in order to meet their nutritional needs. No matter how many corn feeders you put out or how many acres of soybeans you plant….it will only make up a small portion of the deer’s overall diet. What a deer would prefer is rich diversity……and there is nothing better that supplies that to them than a highly fertile field of 25+ different native plant species that are vibrant and healthy. Its able to supply them with most of the nutritional needs all from one spot and across a large time spectrum. There's something there to provide them with their needs week in and week out during the spring and summer months.


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Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: BradB] #3185093
08/06/20 12:10 PM
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They'll definitely pick my soybeans over your sida. But we get it, you respond to every post, deer eat some weeds. They still like weed free soybeans or weed free clover over your sida and dog fennel.

Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: CNC] #3185357
08/06/20 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by BradB
If I came back in five years the Sicklepod would be replaced by pine and sweetgum trees.Neither which feed deer.



I must have missed a few responses. I didn’t notice this one or Blum’s…

The point of that was not about sweetgum and pine feeding deer…..it was to illustrate how nature would get rid of the sicklepod permanently without you doing anything at all. Yet our “solution” of spraying only eliminates it temporarily and then we have to deal with it or another pioneer specie again. It’s something in the natural progression of the soil conditions that eliminates the sicklepod. You can still grow beneficial plants for the deer but the soil conditions need to progress out of the pioneer stage or nature will just continue to put out those types of plants…..Its natures attempt to repair the soil.

Blum……I think there are unintended consequences of spraying chemicals that we don’t have a full understanding of yet. The soil food web is a big chain with all the links tied together. You start eliminating some of the links and other links fall as well. There’s a very good chapter in the One Straw Revolution that describes a series of events just like this. We may not be aware of what its effecting but I would just about guarantee that chemicals impact some form of microbes, etc…

That may be, but I'm going to spray it, because if I dont it will canopy and choke everything out. This has been a field for 30 years. It gets lined and fertilized. It hasn't been disked in 10 years. Plenty of carbon with grass plenty of certain and other broadleaf. But every 5 years or so it comes on with a vengeance, and I'm gonna kill it. I can handle most weeds, but the two I can't stand in my plot is sicklepod and dog fennel. I dont mind dog fennel around my plot, it makes a hell of a screen, but I will not tolerate it in my plot.

Re: I hit the trifecta [Re: Cynical] #3185747
08/07/20 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cynical
They'll definitely pick my soybeans over your sida. But we get it, you respond to every post, deer eat some weeds. They still like weed free soybeans or weed free clover over your sida and dog fennel.


That's completely absurd to state that deer prefer something "weed free"..... Whatever keeps the chemicals flowing though I suppose.......

I have over 25 different species growing


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