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Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: Ant67] #3136613
06/03/20 12:59 PM
06/03/20 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,080
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,080
Chelsea, AL
Originally Posted by Ant67
What or who is the instigator? In terms of whether or if stand your ground applies that is decided by the Judge. If he rules against you argue it to the Jury. Both are pretty scary propositions in my neck of the woods.

Good points.
I just know I'm not going to just stand there and/or help the bad guy load up my stuff into his vehicle or pockets....written as a hypothetical for discussion and educational purposes only, for disclaimer.


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: Out back] #3136640
06/03/20 01:24 PM
06/03/20 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
Originally Posted by Out back
Originally Posted by Ant67
Bottom line is you can’t kill somebody because they steal or destroy your property.

Wanna bet?

He should have said, you can't legally kill someone for stealing or destroying your property.

Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: noeyeddeer] #3136642
06/03/20 01:28 PM
06/03/20 01:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
Originally Posted by noeyeddeer
Originally Posted by Ant67
Originally Posted by straycat
Originally Posted by Ant67
Bottom line is you can’t kill somebody because they steal or destroy your property.

But it doesn't preclude you from trying to stop them from stealing or destroying property, correct?
And if during that process of protecting your property a legitimate perceived threat emerges, then you are not precluded from using deadly force, correct?

Example: You see a guy trying to steal something from your driveway or carport...weedeater, mower, whatever. You intervene and guy doesn't flee but makes a move toward you with bad intentions. Doesn't that then get us back to the justified use of deadly force under threat and fear of safety or loss of life? Contrasted with...you see some guy stealing a weedeater and you just shoot him dead...no threat.

These , at least to me, are the real life scenarios that happen with more frequency. Robbers and thieves and piddlers get confronted and it escalates.

You can not be the instigator and take advantage of stand your ground. Defense


But are you the instigator if you are reacting to the robbery at hand and just happened to be armed? Say you hear a noise in your carport and are checking your property armed and the guy starts coming at you agressively? I don't see that as being the instigator but easily could be wrong.


It would be a question for a judge. But, I would say, if you go to investigate a noise and you catch a someone stealing and they advance on you in an aggressive manner, you are defending yourself. If you catch them and they don't try to attack you and you just shoot them, you are going to be in trouble.

Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: Paddlejon] #3136650
06/03/20 01:46 PM
06/03/20 01:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 17,922
North AL
A
AU338MAG Offline
Old Mossy Horns
AU338MAG  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
A
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 17,922
North AL
Doekiller.

How's a dead guy gonna tell the cops he wasn't attacking when he got shot?


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales

Molon Labe
Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: AU338MAG] #3136657
06/03/20 01:59 PM
06/03/20 01:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,975
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,975
USA
Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Doekiller.

How's a dead guy gonna tell the cops he wasn't attacking when he got shot?

I once had a guy tell me he keeps a screwdriver in his pocket for such occasions. “He grabbed a screwdriver and came at me with it and I was in fear for my life.”
ALWAYS ALWAYS CARRY a screwdriver. rofl
Of coarse I’m just kidding about always carrying a screwdriver but it’s a good idea to always have one in the console in case a tailight burns out.


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: dave260rem!] #3136658
06/03/20 02:01 PM
06/03/20 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted by dave260rem!
Was taught to calm down breathe after event be polite,compliant and tell story as calmy quickly as possible then.....SHUTUP!


The current thinking that they teach police officers is to get one good night of sleep and then tell it to whoever you need to. Keep in mind that the Garrity Rule compels them to give a statement or face possible discipline up to termination. This is simply an administrative investigation to determine whether they should face discipline or not. Any statement they make can not be shared with whomever is doing the criminal investigation, nor can it be used in court in the criminal investigation.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: marshmud991] #3136662
06/03/20 02:10 PM
06/03/20 02:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 52,010
Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
James Offline
Freak of Nature
James  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 52,010
Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
Originally Posted by marshmud991
Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Doekiller.

How's a dead guy gonna tell the cops he wasn't attacking when he got shot?

I once had a guy tell me he keeps a screwdriver in his pocket for such occasions. “He grabbed a screwdriver and came at me with it and I was in fear for my life.”
ALWAYS ALWAYS CARRY a screwdriver. rofl
Of coarse I’m just kidding about always carrying a screwdriver but it’s a good idea to always have one in the console in case a tailight burns out.


Lol that's funny. Guess that's why my daddy carries about 7 pocket knives (including one on his hip) 🤣


How many people am i willing to sacrifice for freedom?
Everyone. All of them...

Do not regret growing older, it's a privilege denied to many!

Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: AU338MAG] #3136695
06/03/20 02:46 PM
06/03/20 02:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Doekiller.

How's a dead guy gonna tell the cops he wasn't attacking when he got shot?


He doesn't have to if he is laying in your yard and the shell casings are in the house, of the shell casings are 20 feet from where the body is laying. Or he is shot in the back. Of you have a security system that shows what happens. There are a lot of ways to prove guilt without a statement from a victim.

Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: doekiller] #3136711
06/03/20 03:01 PM
06/03/20 03:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,229
Semmes, AL
HippieKiller Offline
10 point
HippieKiller  Offline
10 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,229
Semmes, AL
Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Doekiller.

How's a dead guy gonna tell the cops he wasn't attacking when he got shot?


He doesn't have to if he is laying in your yard and the shell casings are in the house, of the shell casings are 20 feet from where the body is laying...


Police your brass: check.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson
Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: Paddlejon] #3136733
06/03/20 03:18 PM
06/03/20 03:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,876
Shelby Co, AL
CatHeadBiscuit Offline
14 point
CatHeadBiscuit  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,876
Shelby Co, AL
So in the middle of the night I hear a noise someplace on my property and I attempt to investigate it. Out pops a person scaring the life out of me. I put 3 in them center mass from my drawn pistol. Am I in danger of having breached the requirements of the castle doctrine?


"Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a crap on the table, and strut around like its victorious."--Anonymous
Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: CatHeadBiscuit] #3136738
06/03/20 03:25 PM
06/03/20 03:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
Originally Posted by CatHeadBiscuit
So in the middle of the night I hear a noise someplace on my property and I attempt to investigate it. Out pops a person scaring the life out of me. I put 3 in them center mass from my drawn pistol. Am I in danger of having breached the requirements of the castle doctrine?



The answer would be very fact specific. It would depend on where the person was, are they in the house or attempting to enter the house? How far away from you are they when they jumped out? Where they armed? There are dozens of things that would make the answer turn one way or another.

Many of the cases where it is determined the person was justified in the use of force, still result in an initial arrest, the requirement to post bond and the need to hire a lawyer to defend you before the charges are dismissed.

Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: Paddlejon] #3136741
06/03/20 03:31 PM
06/03/20 03:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,160
Opelika
N
noeyeddeer Offline
6 point
noeyeddeer  Offline
6 point
N
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,160
Opelika
Do you work down in the Opelika area, doekiller, if so do you got a card I can keep with me lol. Always wanted an attorney I could keep on speed dial in case the need arises.

And serious question, do you guys know who you would call if such an incidence occured? I know many a lawyers but not sure who would be the best one for a self defense case.

Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: doekiller] #3136747
06/03/20 03:38 PM
06/03/20 03:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by CatHeadBiscuit
So in the middle of the night I hear a noise someplace on my property and I attempt to investigate it. Out pops a person scaring the life out of me. I put 3 in them center mass from my drawn pistol. Am I in danger of having breached the requirements of the castle doctrine?



The answer would be very fact specific. It would depend on where the person was, are they in the house or attempting to enter the house? How far away from you are they when they jumped out? Where they armed? There are dozens of things that would make the answer turn one way or another.

Many of the cases where it is determined the person was justified in the use of force, still result in an initial arrest, the requirement to post bond and the need to hire a lawyer to defend you before the charges are dismissed.


How often does that happen when the situation happens at someone's home and the person shot is an intruder?

I would say that it isvery very rare that the homeowner/occupier is ever charged. Even before the Castle statute was enacted.


"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: Paddlejon] #3136752
06/03/20 03:49 PM
06/03/20 03:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,863
SE Bama
B
Bull64 Offline
10 point
Bull64  Offline
10 point
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,863
SE Bama
Judged by 12,or carried by 6...

Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: WmHunter] #3136801
06/03/20 04:55 PM
06/03/20 04:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
Originally Posted by WmHunter
Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by CatHeadBiscuit
So in the middle of the night I hear a noise someplace on my property and I attempt to investigate it. Out pops a person scaring the life out of me. I put 3 in them center mass from my drawn pistol. Am I in danger of having breached the requirements of the castle doctrine?



The answer would be very fact specific. It would depend on where the person was, are they in the house or attempting to enter the house? How far away from you are they when they jumped out? Where they armed? There are dozens of things that would make the answer turn one way or another.

Many of the cases where it is determined the person was justified in the use of force, still result in an initial arrest, the requirement to post bond and the need to hire a lawyer to defend you before the charges are dismissed.


How often does that happen when the situation happens at someone's home and the person shot is an intruder?

I would say that it isvery very rare that the homeowner/occupier is ever charged. Even before the Castle statute was enacted.


I would say it isn’t common. But, I’ve had one case in the last 18 months where the homeowner was charged. The judge granted my stand your ground motion to dismiss.

Most of the cases I’ve seen where the homeowner was charged were attempted murder/assault cases. Because there was a live victim to tell their story.

Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: Paddlejon] #3136806
06/03/20 05:06 PM
06/03/20 05:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,876
Shelby Co, AL
CatHeadBiscuit Offline
14 point
CatHeadBiscuit  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,876
Shelby Co, AL
Then the rule needs to be rewritten because nobody should be held responsible for someone uninvited and anywhere on their land or in their home or in their vehicle acting in a manner causing the owner to fear for the life of the owner or anyone else in their presence.


"Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a crap on the table, and strut around like its victorious."--Anonymous
Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: doekiller] #3136816
06/03/20 05:26 PM
06/03/20 05:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,436
A
abolt300 Offline
Booner
abolt300  Offline
Booner
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,436
Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by WmHunter
Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by CatHeadBiscuit
So in the middle of the night I hear a noise someplace on my property and I attempt to investigate it. Out pops a person scaring the life out of me. I put 3 in them center mass from my drawn pistol. Am I in danger of having breached the requirements of the castle doctrine?



The answer would be very fact specific. It would depend on where the person was, are they in the house or attempting to enter the house? How far away from you are they when they jumped out? Where they armed? There are dozens of things that would make the answer turn one way or another.

Many of the cases where it is determined the person was justified in the use of force, still result in an initial arrest, the requirement to post bond and the need to hire a lawyer to defend you before the charges are dismissed.


How often does that happen when the situation happens at someone's home and the person shot is an intruder?

I would say that it isvery very rare that the homeowner/occupier is ever charged. Even before the Castle statute was enacted.


I would say it isn’t common. But, I’ve had one case in the last 18 months where the homeowner was charged. The judge granted my stand your ground motion to dismiss.

Most of the cases I’ve seen where the homeowner was charged were attempted murder/assault cases. Because there was a live victim to tell their story.


Y'all pay attention. Do you understand what the man just very discretely said in the post above. I highlighted it for the ones of you with reading comprehension problems.

Last edited by abolt300; 06/03/20 05:27 PM.
Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: WmHunter] #3136823
06/03/20 05:35 PM
06/03/20 05:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted by WmHunter
Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by CatHeadBiscuit
So in the middle of the night I hear a noise someplace on my property and I attempt to investigate it. Out pops a person scaring the life out of me. I put 3 in them center mass from my drawn pistol. Am I in danger of having breached the requirements of the castle doctrine?



The answer would be very fact specific. It would depend on where the person was, are they in the house or attempting to enter the house? How far away from you are they when they jumped out? Where they armed? There are dozens of things that would make the answer turn one way or another.

Many of the cases where it is determined the person was justified in the use of force, still result in an initial arrest, the requirement to post bond and the need to hire a lawyer to defend you before the charges are dismissed.


How often does that happen when the situation happens at someone's home and the person shot is an intruder?

I would say that it isvery very rare that the homeowner/occupier is ever charged. Even before the Castle statute was enacted.


Too many are still trying to complicate a simple issue. Did you fear for your life or the life of another? It is a lot easier to answer this in the affirmative when someone breaks in and intrudes on your home than it is in a bar for instance, but the same basic question is all that has to be answered.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: doekiller] #3136876
06/03/20 07:00 PM
06/03/20 07:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 17,922
North AL
A
AU338MAG Offline
Old Mossy Horns
AU338MAG  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
A
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 17,922
North AL
Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Doekiller.

How's a dead guy gonna tell the cops he wasn't attacking when he got shot?


He doesn't have to if he is laying in your yard and the shell casings are in the house, of the shell casings are 20 feet from where the body is laying. Or he is shot in the back. Of you have a security system that shows what happens. There are a lot of ways to prove guilt without a statement from a victim.

I was being facetious...


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales

Molon Labe
Re: Alabama Castle Law [Re: Paddlejon] #3136880
06/03/20 07:06 PM
06/03/20 07:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman Offline
Booner
gman  Offline
Booner
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
Im thinking more along the lines of getting stopped/trapped in traffic in one of their road block events Someone comes at my vehicle throwing bricks, beating on windows etc...i will be in fear for my life.


The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
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