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Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: Mbrock] #2966550
11/25/19 07:48 PM
11/25/19 07:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 13,016
Montgomery, Alabama
jaredhunts Online content
Puts sugar in his cornbread!
jaredhunts  Online Content
Puts sugar in his cornbread!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 13,016
Montgomery, Alabama
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Nightwatchman
I guess I am the only one who does not think that the map is accurate at all for several areas of the state.

I've hunted several different areas, mostly in south Alabama but also some north of Birmingham and I have witnessed heavier chasing at different times than the map suggests. I'm sure there are studies to back up the map, but I have consistently witnessed bucks chasing at different times of the season than the map shows.

Bucks chasing does does not give the full picture, as they will do that any time they have hardened antler. Most visible chasing that hunters see occurs 10-14 days before peak breeding or conception. Fetal studies tell you exactly, to within 24 hours, when a doe conceived.

That doesn’t mean the map is complete. There are areas in the state we lack data, but of what we have data for, the conception dates don’t lie.

There's always exceptions.


It be's that way sometimes.

www.sunpoolcompany.com
Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: Mbrock] #2966573
11/25/19 08:09 PM
11/25/19 08:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,206
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,206
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Nightwatchman
I guess I am the only one who does not think that the map is accurate at all for several areas of the state.

I've hunted several different areas, mostly in south Alabama but also some north of Birmingham and I have witnessed heavier chasing at different times than the map suggests. I'm sure there are studies to back up the map, but I have consistently witnessed bucks chasing at different times of the season than the map shows.

Bucks chasing does does not give the full picture, as they will do that any time they have hardened antler. Most visible chasing that hunters see occurs 10-14 days before peak breeding or conception. Fetal studies tell you exactly, to within 24 hours, when a doe conceived.

That doesn’t mean the map is complete. There are areas in the state we lack data, but of what we have data for, the conception dates don’t lie.


Yep, Chasing sightings do not indicate when actual breeding is happening.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: jaredhunts] #2966704
11/25/19 09:32 PM
11/25/19 09:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,936
Right behind you
Mbrock Online content
Fancy
Mbrock  Online Content
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,936
Right behind you
Originally Posted by jaredhunts
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Nightwatchman
I guess I am the only one who does not think that the map is accurate at all for several areas of the state.

I've hunted several different areas, mostly in south Alabama but also some north of Birmingham and I have witnessed heavier chasing at different times than the map suggests. I'm sure there are studies to back up the map, but I have consistently witnessed bucks chasing at different times of the season than the map shows.

Bucks chasing does does not give the full picture, as they will do that any time they have hardened antler. Most visible chasing that hunters see occurs 10-14 days before peak breeding or conception. Fetal studies tell you exactly, to within 24 hours, when a doe conceived.

That doesn’t mean the map is complete. There are areas in the state we lack data, but of what we have data for, the conception dates don’t lie.

There's always exceptions.


That map is for averages, not exceptions. Exceptions can and do happen in everything. The map is pretty dang close to what is happening statewide with the breeding dates that have been collected. If you think there are areas grossly misrepresented then reach out to the district office in that area and offer up some property to collect on so it can be made more accurate.

Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: NWALJM] #2966747
11/25/19 09:58 PM
11/25/19 09:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,805
Banana Republic
jb20 Offline
Old Mossy Horns
jb20  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,805
Banana Republic
A lot of hunters don't see action and think rut hasn't hit yet when a lot of times it's happening or passed already...


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Ben Franklin
Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: Mbrock] #2967020
11/26/19 10:23 AM
11/26/19 10:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,487
Tuscaloosa, AL
Nightwatchman Offline
8 point
Nightwatchman  Offline
8 point
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,487
Tuscaloosa, AL
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Nightwatchman
I guess I am the only one who does not think that the map is accurate at all for several areas of the state.

I've hunted several different areas, mostly in south Alabama but also some north of Birmingham and I have witnessed heavier chasing at different times than the map suggests. I'm sure there are studies to back up the map, but I have consistently witnessed bucks chasing at different times of the season than the map shows.

Bucks chasing does does not give the full picture, as they will do that any time they have hardened antler. Most visible chasing that hunters see occurs 10-14 days before peak breeding or conception. Fetal studies tell you exactly, to within 24 hours, when a doe conceived.

That doesn’t mean the map is complete. There are areas in the state we lack data, but of what we have data for, the conception dates don’t lie.



I'm painting what you're priming. Just because bucks are chasing does not mean that (on average) most does are actually conceiving around that time.

What can you tell us about other indicators of rut activity? i.e. tarsal glands darkening. If I shoot a buck in late January that stinks really bad and has jet black tarsal glands does that mean he is in full rut? Conversely, if I shoot a buck in early January and his glands are only somewhat dark does that mean that the rut is still several weeks away?

Or are these characteristics at all tied to actual chasing activity from a biologist's standpoint? I've always heard old timers talk alot about dark tarsal glands and bucks "stinking" but wondered what it meant from an actual biologist point of view. Grandaddy's ole huntin' advice is not always backed by science lol

Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: NWALJM] #2967023
11/26/19 10:28 AM
11/26/19 10:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 198
Rogersville
Cibola Offline
3 point
Cibola  Offline
3 point
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 198
Rogersville
I see they are finally acknowledging the mid-November rut in eastern Lauderdale/western Limestone. Since they prolonged the season for areas with the late January/early February rut, are they going to open the gun season earlier in those areas that have peak rut before gun season opens?


He never promised that the cross would not get heavy & the hill would not be hard to climb.
Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: Nightwatchman] #2967043
11/26/19 10:57 AM
11/26/19 10:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,936
Right behind you
Mbrock Online content
Fancy
Mbrock  Online Content
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,936
Right behind you
Originally Posted by Nightwatchman
What can you tell us about other indicators of rut activity? i.e. tarsal glands darkening. If I shoot a buck in late January that stinks really bad and has jet black tarsal glands does that mean he is in full rut? Conversely, if I shoot a buck in early January and his glands are only somewhat dark does that mean that the rut is still several weeks away?

Or are these characteristics at all tied to actual chasing activity from a biologist's standpoint? I've always heard old timers talk alot about dark tarsal glands and bucks "stinking" but wondered what it meant from an actual biologist point of view. Grandaddy's ole huntin' advice is not always backed by science lol


I don’t put much emphasis on darkened tarsals or other physical characteristics. Reason being, all bucks are different. They all participate in the rut in different ways. Their activity has a lot to do with individual characteristics that I firmly believe they are genetically predispositioned towards certain behaviors. Some are more aggressive. Some less. Some are heavy scrapers. Some not so much. Some pee on their tarsals often. Some hardly ever do it. Those are not learned behaviors, as bucks are typically solitary during the breeding season. They’re genetically programmed to breed, but the behaviors that go along with breeding are certainly not the same for every buck.

Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: NWALJM] #2967050
11/26/19 11:10 AM
11/26/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,403
Boaz,AL
CarbonClimber1 Offline
14 point
CarbonClimber1  Offline
14 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,403
Boaz,AL
What aboout the ones who pee on their tarsal glands too much...Do they go blind?


"I dont quit.. And ill fight alone if i have to"
Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: Mbrock] #2967142
11/26/19 02:14 PM
11/26/19 02:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Originally Posted by Mbrock


Most visible chasing that hunters see occurs 10-14 days before peak breeding or conception.


^^^ Very interesting.

I think the map is a generally accurate presentation of average peak rut times for most of the State, but not all.
Certainly not accurate at all for Montgomery County - it should have that dark green covering most of the county - AND MOST of southeast Alabama.
I remember two other of these rut maps that had much later peak rut dates for Montgomery County then this new one.

If I applied that chasing "rule" to Montgomery County it would even be later.

Last edited by WmHunter; 11/26/19 05:06 PM.

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: Mbrock] #2967153
11/26/19 02:34 PM
11/26/19 02:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
B
blumsden Offline
12 point
blumsden  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Nightwatchman
What can you tell us about other indicators of rut activity? i.e. tarsal glands darkening. If I shoot a buck in late January that stinks really bad and has jet black tarsal glands does that mean he is in full rut? Conversely, if I shoot a buck in early January and his glands are only somewhat dark does that mean that the rut is still several weeks away?

Or are these characteristics at all tied to actual chasing activity from a biologist's standpoint? I've always heard old timers talk alot about dark tarsal glands and bucks "stinking" but wondered what it meant from an actual biologist point of view. Grandaddy's ole huntin' advice is not always backed by science lol


I don’t put much emphasis on darkened tarsals or other physical characteristics. Reason being, all bucks are different. They all participate in the rut in different ways. Their activity has a lot to do with individual characteristics that I firmly believe they are genetically predispositioned towards certain behaviors. Some are more aggressive. Some less. Some are heavy scrapers. Some not so much. Some pee on their tarsals often. Some hardly ever do it. Those are not learned behaviors, as bucks are typically solitary during the breeding season. They’re genetically programmed to breed, but the behaviors that go along with breeding are certainly not the same for every buck.

I killed a good 8pt on Jan the 15th several years ago that had blonde tarsal glands, but he was run down some, so I know he had to have been chasing. He was out cruising. The rut map pretty much nails the rut on our 2 properties, and they have 2 different ruts.

Last edited by blumsden; 11/26/19 02:35 PM.
Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: Mbrock] #2967206
11/26/19 03:52 PM
11/26/19 03:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,897
Tallassee
G
G/H Offline
14 point
G/H  Offline
14 point
G
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,897
Tallassee
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Nightwatchman
What can you tell us about other indicators of rut activity? i.e. tarsal glands darkening. If I shoot a buck in late January that stinks really bad and has jet black tarsal glands does that mean he is in full rut? Conversely, if I shoot a buck in early January and his glands are only somewhat dark does that mean that the rut is still several weeks away?

Or are these characteristics at all tied to actual chasing activity from a biologist's standpoint? I've always heard old timers talk alot about dark tarsal glands and bucks "stinking" but wondered what it meant from an actual biologist point of view. Grandaddy's ole huntin' advice is not always backed by science lol


I don’t put much emphasis on darkened tarsals or other physical characteristics. Reason being, all bucks are different. They all participate in the rut in different ways. Their activity has a lot to do with individual characteristics that I firmly believe they are genetically predispositioned towards certain behaviors. Some are more aggressive. Some less. Some are heavy scrapers. Some not so much. Some pee on their tarsals often. Some hardly ever do it. Those are not learned behaviors, as bucks are typically solitary during the breeding season. They’re genetically programmed to breed, but the behaviors that go along with breeding are certainly not the same for every buck.


I've got a buck in Butler county last week peeing on tarsal glands and working a scrape. I think it's just a community scrape. Also have a small spotted fawn on camera. If this doe was killed on Oct 15th I think she would have been still carrying

Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: NWALJM] #2967268
11/26/19 04:48 PM
11/26/19 04:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
14 point
joshm28  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
You can’t rely much on buck behavior to determine the rut. Bucks testosterone levels remain low from post rut on. They get a spike in testosterone levels at the start of antler growth, then it falls off again. Towards the beginning of summer the levels start to ramp up and peak around the rut or shortly thereafter. Scraping, peeing on tarsals, fighting, rubbing is all dependent on that specific buck and not a good indicator of anything really. I shot a 10 point last year, right in the middle of the rut, and his tarsal glands were fairly clean. He was dogging does around a feeder the night before (game camera).

I’ve also read that young bucks breed a majority of the does and a mature buck will only breed 1-3 total. He made breed those does several times each during the lock down period. Young bucks typically start acting stupid a couple weeks before the mature bucks do. I guess that could be an indicator.

Last edited by joshm28; 11/26/19 04:50 PM.
Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: jb20] #2967363
11/26/19 07:13 PM
11/26/19 07:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,206
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,206
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by jb20
A lot of hunters don't see action and think rut hasn't hit yet when a lot of times it's happening or passed already...

In the mid 90s there was one season we had a long stretch of very unseasonably warm , humid weather right at prime breeding period in Ol' Hi-Jackson. It was in the 60's and low 70s day after day. Nobody was killing any or even seeing any bucks or does either. It was terrible . I heard many a hunter say " they didn't rut this season". Well third week of July the next summer fawns hit the ground just like always.
I'll add when that when a cold front swept through and the weather changed it was wide open and bucks were getting killed like I've never seen before or since in a about three day period. It was like someone opened a giant pen and let them out. I killed a dandy 8 point the morning the front moved through , that afternoon it snowed!



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: New Alabama Rut Map [Re: 2Dogs] #2967375
11/26/19 07:28 PM
11/26/19 07:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,805
Banana Republic
jb20 Offline
Old Mossy Horns
jb20  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,805
Banana Republic
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by jb20
A lot of hunters don't see action and think rut hasn't hit yet when a lot of times it's happening or passed already...

In the mid 90s there was one season we had a long stretch of very unseasonably warm , humid weather right at prime breeding period in Ol' Hi-Jackson. It was in the 60's and low 70s day after day. Nobody was killing any or even seeing any bucks or does either. It was terrible . I heard many a hunter say " they didn't rut this season". Well third week of July the next summer fawns hit the ground just like always.
I'll add when that when a cold front swept through and the weather changed it was wide open and bucks were getting killed like I've never seen before or since in a about three day period. It was like someone opened a giant pen and let them out. I killed a dandy 8 point the morning the front moved through , that afternoon it snowed!

In all my years hunting I've only killed one dogging a doe. But my 4 best bucks from here have been within 5 days of each jan 15-20..i always make a bunch of phone calls during that time just to double check with other hunters and it's pretty steady year after year from my end


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Ben Franklin
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